The Greatest Enemy of the Vols: Us.
[Note by hooper, 09/25/08 4:45 PM EDT ] Nunes explains that the distance from family is the reason for softening the commit. The family sounds very reasonable and optimistic about UT's future. Again, I hope the kid makes the right decision for his future (including his post-college goals) and I applaud his thoughtfulness. But since I used him as an example, it's only honest to keep his side of the story straight.
When things started breaking against the Volunteers on the football field, I made a decision to stay out of the discussion. I didn't see the benefit to choosing a side on the future of the Vols and arguing back and forth over the internet about it, and I'd much rather keep cheering for the Vols from the comfort of my proverbial jammies and Mom's basement. But something needs addressed.
Now.
I'm going to first start by opening up and filling you in a little bit on my own background; that way my following comments are in context. If you want to skip that and go straight to my argument, click on the jump and read from that point on.
Some of you already know that I am a grad student at the University of Tennessee. My undergrad is from the University of Wyoming - the only 4-year institution in the state I grew up in. (Yes, the only one.) As a de facto fan of a "small fish" school, I learned very quickly to enjoy cheering for my team regardless of their talent. I was in the marching band when I saw my Cowboys rise all the way to 13th in the polls and eventually get snubbed for a bowl game (despite being ranked) because they were a "small fish". I also had the 'pleasure' of watching my team descend to horridness under a string of successively incapable coaches. I've seen the top of that program and the bottom, and I've seen the slide between them. And I've enjoyed cheering for them the entire time.
Even during my time in Wyoming (long before considering UT as a grad school), I grew to appreciate the Volunteers. Whenever the Vols were on TV, the fanbase came across as very sportsmanlike and very enthusiastic. There was a charm to UT football that couldn't be found in many other programs. When I came through East Tennessee on occasional travels, I was always impressed with the courtesy of the people I met and the congenial atmosphere. When grad school became an option, I was ecstatic to have a chance to live in the area and experience East Tennessee firsthand.
My first live UT game was in Neyland stadium against Air Force. With student tickets, I was seated next to the band (literally) and had a chance to pet the Air Force falcon. I had a bird's eye view of USAFA's failed two-point conversion play that gave UT the win. (Side note: the MWC side of me appreciated USAFA's representation of the conference, even if I was happier for UT to win.) On the way out, I heard the obligatory "it's great to be a [insert SEC team name here]" cheer for the first time.
Fast forward to today.
I have tried several times to write my thoughts out coherently, but never felt good about them. Earlier today, Joel and I had a chat about Josh Nunes and his de-commit, and I feel that the conversation that transpired was my best expression yet. With Joel's permission, I include the raw text chat with only one minor deletion early on, a few links for clarity, and with the closing comments deleted for brevity. All typos are left in; I think you'll get the point in raw form. You'll see a bit behind the tag-team game we play to run the site, but that's ok. The transcript is too valuable to not post.
(me = hooper; Rocky = Joel)
Rocky: Got a minute?
me: sure.lunch breakMy thoughts . . .recap the article, emphasize that he's reconsidering, not saying booing reason, but probably.Fans not helping matters.me: sounds rightRocky: Cope w/ humor, like the Blogpoll, w/ objective analysis, like the UFR, or w/ discretion, like Gate 21 did this morning.But not that way.That's essentially what I would try to throw up in the next 30 min.me: go for it.Rocky: How does that fit w/ what you had planned? Does it gut it?me: let me give you my outsider's eyeballs for a second.Rocky: Don't want to mess up anything you've been working on.me: in the 90s, when I first started liking UT football, everyting about the program came across very well on TV. Unlike the Criminoles and the other Florida teams, UT was very family-friendly and very classyhuge sense of community(btw you won't mess anything up)Rocky: notes to myself: change is going to happen; Fulmer's going to get it turned around or there will be a change. Remember Berry's comments.me: to a guy like Nunes, the TV image is huge.Rocky: Okay. Yeah, that's a good point.me: in the early 2000s, it took a hit with the Future stuff and the NFL-guy imagery, but nothing too badbut having the FANS come across as ugly is a death-knell to recruitingnobody will decide to come here if they aren't a lifelong UT fan if the program looks uglywe're not Notre DameNunes is smart to open his recruiting up. He has a potential NFL career riding on this. If UT looks like 4 years of ugliness, he won't want to risk his career on itThe fans are forgetting that our best recruits come from out of state. They are looking for a reason to come here, and that first lies in the character of the program.Every recruit that visits absolutely glows about the coaches, the facilities, the campus, and the character.But if the fanbase gives teh opposite image, they'll wonder how much of their visits were window-dressing. <.>Rocky: Excellent. You know, I think your perspective is better.thinking . . .how quick do you think you could have something like that up?me: Fans are reacting because their pride is hurt. Recruits will react if they sense their future is hurt....
This is not analogous to the end of either Battle's or Majors's tenure as head coach. Back then, when the fans turned ugly, it wasn't broadcast on every news outlet across the coast as thoroughly as it is now. Recruits are also far smarter about comparing schools now that all the information is at their fingertips. They're looking for the best option for them, much like you might go house-shopping. No matter how good the house might be, it won't get sold if the lawn looks like trash.
Josh Nunes's response to the Florida game is just the beginning. If the fans make UT look ugly, national recruiting will absolutely shut down. Then it won't matter who the coach is, we won't keep up with the rest of the SEC. It's not like we're Vanderbilt, where we can offer a top-10 private-school lawyer/doctor education as a carrot.
If you want Fulmer fired, fine. (I'm not taking sides on this one.) Understand though, that when the fans boo louder than they cheer, and when half the stadium is empty before the 4th quarter, you're hurting the program beyond the capability of any head coach to repair. There are better ways to express displeasure that don't cripple the program. Try writing a hand-written letter to the AD. Let the boosters use their financial clout. But do not project ugly; you become UT's worst enemy when you do.
0 recs |
35 comments
|
Comments
I wish your first game could have been Cal 06.
I enjoy reading what you and Joel have to say. I started poking around your site this past summer as excitement for the Clawfense was building into something that we all should have realized was unfair and highly unlikely (but this is SEC fandom for you). I felt like this season was going to be someting special and was just completely crushed after UCLA. I am really going to give some thought to what you had to say; though admittedly as I was reading your post I kept nodding, but then going back to what we’ve heard over and over in recent days “we have to send a message” that mediocrity & refusal to correct the same mistakes over and over and over (special teams?) at this level won’t be accepted. Completely agree on your final comments though that perhaps this is best done in a less threatening way via letters to Hamilton while continuing to cheer in the stands. It sure is hard sometimes though. If our relentlessly optimistic environment is a big factor in what sets us apart from other schools for recruits, then we should all consider how our actions influence guys like Nunes.
Oh, and what happened that your first game was Air Force and not Cal? I have never been to a more electrifying game and am sorry you missed that during your first trip to Neyland. Air Force was a little too close…..
by UTchris on Sep 25, 2008 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was still very new to the Knoxville area, and the Cal weekend was spent on home improvement labor. I didn’t get to see any of that game except for a couple of highlights later that evening. I did go to the Alabama game and had a terrific view (50-yard line, 2nd row in the upper tier). That was absolutely thrilling.
But yeah, I fully support the right to express an opinion. We just have to understand that our medium of expression may have effects we don’t intend.
by Hooper on Sep 25, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fabulous Post!
Great way to sum things up in approximately 2,000 fewer words than I did with “discretion” (something I’ve never been accused of having, but which was my goal in penning my encyclopedic look at the coaching crisis).
The folks that are out there ranting and raving don’t understand how bad they are making the program and the university look. I’m a Fulmer fan (as if that wasn’t obvious after this morning), but I can understand why others aren’t. I have no problem with them expressing that. When they do that at the expense of the program, of the team, of the recruiting base, of the national perspective on Tennessee, then they completely miss the picture. It is the proverbial case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I think you may have hit the nail on the head. The flamers and attack-dogs, the boo-birds and “leavers” are creating an absolutely poisonous atmosphere. Very well said indeed.
I just hope — and I would welcome any response or thoughts from you on this — that I didn’t help make the situation worse by speaking out the way I did today over on my rag. My goal was to express the same fundamental premise that you did, but in over 3,700 words I don’t think I came nearly as close to hitting it dead on as you just did.
Gee, I hope I didn’t add one more log to the fire…
Great post.
============
lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Sep 25, 2008 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No worries.
Expressing displeasure never hurts when it has a sense of sanity and sound mind behind it. It’s the foaming-at-the-mouth bitterness and hatred that turns things ugly.
Actually, putting your name on that post was a fabulous touch.
by Hooper on Sep 25, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
What you wrote this morning (and I know I’ve said this a couple of other places, but I’ll say it here as well — fantastic post) is, in my view anyway, the right way to discuss current frustrations. I, like hooper, am not taking sides on the issue of Fulmer’s retention, but I really appreciate your opinion and especially the way it was communicated. It’s much more likely to be taken seriously by those who matter, too.
Go Vols!
by Joel on Sep 25, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
......FIRE (Todd) BERRY!!!!
Before I start, here is my background: Grandparents are retired UT Faculty, Dad was an UT ROTC graduate. I started my journey for an undergraduate degree at the United States Military Acadmey. When my West Point career blew up, I enrolled at UT and got my undergraduate degree knocked out. This will all will explain my position on this.
I’ve been going to UT games since my parents had to carry me in. The point is, I’ve experienced college football at the ugly level (Army), the really ugly level (The Season That We Do Not Speak Of), and during the glory years of the 90’s.
So here is my perspective of fans booing. I hate it. I HATE IT. But I see the thought process behind it. During Todd Berry’s tenure at Army, going to games was painful.
Berry went 5-36 in four years. Let’s let that sick in for a second. 5 wins. 1-10, 3-8. 1-11, 0-7, canned. I’m gonna quote Marvin again. “Incredible…..It’s even worse than I thought it would be.”
The Corps of Cadets are made up of a lot of college football fans that decided, that instead of going to your Texases, Nebraskas, Floridas, and Tennessees, to go to this wonderful little slice of heaven in almost up-state New York that used to have a enormous impact on college football. So my point is, that there are a lot of good knowledgeable football fans at the Academy. Well it got so horrendous at Army during these years, that the fans and the Corps of Cadets couldn’t take it anymore. You would hear chants of “FI-RE BERRY!!!” and “boos” and all sorts of things. And it was something that was noticed by a lot of recruits. I’m sure many chose not to come. But here is where it gets complicated. Do you openly voice your displeasure at the most public oppurtunity (a la a game) or do you keep it on message boards, radio call in shows, and letters to the AD (which I’m sure he spends an entire day per week reading….)? You see, my thinking is that the people who choose to leave the stands and the people who choose to boo believe that their actions can not affect the program any worse than that of the Coach and staff. And there is a lot of evidence to support this.
Look at Ron Zook. The Gator nation absolutely ripped him. They couldn’t stand him. They made their displeasure evident. And yet somehow this guy is probably one of the top five recruiters in the country. The Florida fans made clear their feelings and eventually the guy was fired. Two years later…..well we know that story. My point is that while fans can play an impact on the short term with boos and early stadium departures etc., I still think it ultimately falls to the coach and staff on long term effects. The UF fans turned on Zook and Chris Leak and two years later they, well Leak anyways, are holding up the crystal ball.
If Fulmer left tomorrow (And I really hope he does not because I think we can get another W in Atlanta with him), a new staff would come in and they would start over. They would go after their recruits. And the fact that Nunes decided to reopen his recruitment would forever be forgotten. All would be forgotten and we would choose to remember Fulmer as the guy who led us to the Promised Land.
The displeased fans really believe that open discontent is the only thing at this point that is going to remove Phillip Fulmer. I hate hearing it….it makes me feel sad. It makes me think that fans are ungrateful. But, maybe they feel that the best thing for the Program is for Fulmer to leave. It may hurt us this year and maybe with some of this year’s recruits, but I truly believe that in the long run, the coach and staff are biggest proponents of success on the field. The help/effect of the fans is just an extra benefit/obstacle. Look, if fans helped shape the product on the field, then Ole Miss would win every game they played. I believe in Fulmer and while I disagree with those who want to jump ship on him, I feel like its not my place to call them out. I’ve seen where open discontent with a staff can lead to change and ultimately better things (Bobby Ross in Army’s case). I do not believe that we would be better off without Fulmer but to those who truly do, I can’t really call them out for the way they choose to express this….because I once did it to get rid of Todd Berry.
Someday we'll look back on this and plow into a parked car.
by MeytonPanning on Sep 25, 2008 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
Open fan discontent will get things moving in a hurry. One big difference is that Berry’s buyout was nothing like Fulmer’s. I don’t know if the boosters will be able to pony up the $5.5 mil to oust Fulmer, then shell out the (roundabouts) $3-4+ mil for the new coach. No matter how much people might want to get rid of Fulmer, we might not be in a position to do so.
So while walkouts and hearty boos might get the message across, it might not be able to effect the desired change for a year or two. By that time, the program may have lost a significant amount of talent and take a long time to recover. (Florida, on the other hand, had plenty of talent when Meyer took over. Zook was a fantastic recruiter, if not much of a game manager.) The next coach will likely need several years just to get the talent up.
Again, the fans are free to choose their medium to vent. They just need to be aware of the effects they’re having.
by Hooper on Sep 25, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I left the Florida game early
And I feel no guilt about this decision. An open protest is the only one that will be heard. I think you summed this up nicely. I cringe when people boo, but I also can’t exactly blame them.
That said, nice post hooper. I have made the mistake in the past of allowing my discontent to be consuming and to get apoplectic about it, which is just going to lead everyone on all sides of a discussion to tune out.
I left, allowed myself to be pissed about it in the hotel room for a couple of hours, regrouped over beers and night games on TV, and will be back out at Auburn this weekend to hopefully watch some better football.
"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook
by rustytanton on Sep 25, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should add...
A lot of people are getting so worked up over the program that they’re seeing problems that aren’t necessarily there. For example, a lot of people have decided that Clawson’s offense is worthless and needs to be scrapped. The problem is, we haven’t seen his offense yet.
All reports on Clawson say his offense relies on establishing certain plays to open up other plays later on. Our offense has been so mistake-prone that nothing has ever been set up. Until the offense has a good first half, we’ll never see the second-half adjustments that got him hired in the first place. I’m waiting on that before I make any judgments on the offense.
We’ll see. I hope the end of season outlook is better, but we’ll just have to wait and see.
by Hooper on Sep 25, 2008 2:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good Point...
Tony Basilio this morning reported that according to his sources within the program (I think I’m getting this correct) that over 60% of the plays called in by Clawson on Saturday were not the plays that the players ultimately ran on the field. In other words someone on the field thought they knew more than the Offensive Coordinator.
I still think Clawson was a good hire. Especially his love of flipping the line to confuse defenses — which makes sense to me. The average fan in the stands or at home, however, is not all that likely to pick up on those sorts of subtle changes.
============
lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Sep 25, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I missed that from Basilio.
I’ve barely sat still today, though, so it’s no surprise.
What I do know is this: Clawson calls in his suggestion to the sideline. The sideline then calls the play into the field. Find the guy who signals the play in to Crompton and go from there.
by Hooper on Sep 25, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Thats interesting….60%? That is one aspect of the game that I have been really disapointed in. Normally I don’t criticize players but I was very……“unimpressed”…..when our quarterback got in the face of those defenders when he got clocked in the south red zone. I think someone needs some guidance on humility. If I remember correctly, there is a current Duke head coach who nipped that little attitude problem in the bud very quickly. Maybe a Cut-ish type dressing down will sort that crap out….
Someday we'll look back on this and plow into a parked car.
by MeytonPanning on Sep 25, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was somthing like that...
I may be inflating or deflating the number, but the point was that a lot of the plays were not what Clawson called.
That is really worrying that someone feels they can overrule the Offensive Coordinator. Short of Fulmer himself doing it (and the implication on Basilio’s broadcast was that it was not Fulmer) that sort of thing shouldn’t be happening.
============
lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Sep 25, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well who was it?
Are we to assume that if its not coming from Fulmer or Clawsen…..that it is Crompton?
Someday we'll look back on this and plow into a parked car.
by MeytonPanning on Sep 25, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that was the implication
Though I don’t recall Tony ever actually saying that.
I trust Tony too. I’ve never seen him manufacture a rumor or something like that.
As they always say “he’s good people…”
============
lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Sep 25, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very interesting.
I’m having a hard time wrapping my mind around the concept of Crompton overruling that many plays. It’s not like he’s been the most perceptive guy on the field, so I can’t imagine him calling that many audibles.
My gut would say that Fulmer’s been doing most of the overruling. He’s been known to do that before. But if Basilio says it’s not him, I’ll trust Basilio. It just doesn’t make sense.
by Hooper on Sep 25, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I don’t want to mis-report what Basilio said. I’ll try to remember to grab the archive audio from his site once it goes up and see if I can find exactly what he said. Again, I was listening while trying to work and other things — multi-tasking.
I’ll go back and figure out what was said and see if I can get it down to brass tacks.
============
lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Sep 25, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll keep my ears open.
That’s huge, if it’s true. No matter who’s doing the overruling.
by Hooper on Sep 25, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
I agree Hooper. I’ve been frustrated and disappointed with the offense so far. But by no means am I ready to throw the whole durned thing out. Growing pains are tough. And there are still 9 games left in the season. We’ve got time to get back on course.
Someday we'll look back on this and plow into a parked car.
by MeytonPanning on Sep 25, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scheme is just half the battle
I have to disagree with a statement to the effect of “we can’t judge the clawfense because mistakes have prevented the clawfense from emerging.” Being a good offensive coordinator — or indeed a good coach generally — is not just about having pretty plays on a whiteboard. It is about an end of execution wiht a means of repetition. It is about running practices well…running practices in a manner that ensures that mistakes don’t happen. How many false start penalties did UT have last year when Cutcliffe was the OC? Zero.
What I’m saying, in effect, is that execution falls on the coaches. A coach who has a brilliant scheme but isn’t enough of a drill sergeant to ensure that the scheme gets executed is as bad as a coach with no scheme at all.
by kidbourbon on Sep 25, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree, sort of
Scheme is just half the battle. I think Sanders’ downfall was that he was too focused on playcalling, which he was actually not bad at, and not as focused as we should have been on coaching up players. Coaches are responsible for getting players ready, willing, and able to execute.
But I agree with hooper that we really can’t judge Clawson’s offense yet b/c of those mistakes, regardless of who you attribute those mistakes to. Surely the Clawfense doesn’t have numerous fumbles, interceptions, and penalties as part of the plan, right? ;-)
Go Vols!
by Joel on Sep 25, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Point...
I remember after one of the games during TSOWWDNS listening to (now Congressman) Heath Shuler talk about how it was a lack of execution and not necessarily coaching — which I get. My question when I called in was “At what point does the inability to execute when called upon become a coaching issue?” Heath was fairly honest in saying that at some point they become the same.
In fairness to Clawson, I really don’t think he’s been at Tennessee long enough to have a sweeping effect on that side of the game — thus I think Hoops and Joel are right: we don’t know enough to assess the Clawfense yet.
============
lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Sep 25, 2008 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is good stuff
I left the Florida game with 3 or 4 minutes to go, but I stayed to watch the fans not only turn on the team but turn on each other. It was ugly. This isn’t Tennessee football. I was ashamed of some of the things that happened on the field, but more than that, I was ashamed of what happened in the stands. I will never, ever boo my football team. Ever. Just because I’m not on the Fulmer Train anymore because I don’t want to go off the cliff, you’re either on the Tennessee Train or you’re not. The way we’re acting at the games is just shameful.
I’m going to equate it to one thing: I grew up on the Tennessee-Alabama line, and throughout much of the late 90s and especially the past few years, you couldn’t hardly find an Alabama fan in Huntsville. It seemed everybody here had on orange clothes or -more likely - Auburn gear. Now? You can’t sit down another trailer without squashing 10 Bammers. Seriously. I’m not kidding. Everywhere there are “S: The Coach” bumper stickers and Crimson Tide flags. They’ve come out of the woodwork.
Sure, this is a slight dig at Bama. My whole life tries to come up with ways to do that. But it’s also a dig at us. We have too many fans who like to brag but, at their core, could care less about Tennessee. If you care less, stay away. There are REAL fans who want your tickets.
You don’t have to like what’s happening. But don’t boo what’s happening. There are a bunch of kids out there giving their all for Tennessee, and they’re doing what their coaches tell them to. Blame the coaches if you want to. But don’t boo the players. It’s killing the program, and for Josh Nunes to say he’s looking around is an indictment to the coaches, the players, the fans, the program.
We’re all in this together, the ones of us who’ll still be on the ship when it has gone under. We might as well stand up for UT.
by The Ghost on Sep 25, 2008 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Crompton is very smart. Watching his press conference after the game Saturday he really came off as dumb. He thought they should have won the game? WTF was he watching? His team was never in the game.
Regarding Nunes, what was the family emergency he had while he was out here that made him reconsider going 7/8 the way across country to play ball? Does anyone know? I can understand him wanting to be closer to home to be near his family.
I hope this looks and reads OK. Doing it from my iPhone – fraggin work blocked RTT. Bastards!
by wvvol on Sep 25, 2008 5:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and a comment about the basic premise of the post
I would never boo the vols. I think it is bad policy. I do believe, however, that dissent is the highest form of patriotism. I think fulmer should go. I think the program needs to go in a different direction. And I am still one hundred percent ALL VOL.
But, yeah, booing is busch league. Save it for the water cooler.
by kidbourbon on Sep 25, 2008 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree fully.
I do not want to tell anybody what their opinion should be. I just hope they realize that certain expressions may have certain undesirable effects. It’s up to them, but they should at least be aware of the effects when they make those expressions.
I hope I didn’t come across as preachy. I certainly didn’t intend to. That’s largely why I’m staying out of the argument over Fulmer’s job; I don’t want to tell other people what to think on that issue.
by Hooper on Sep 25, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more thing
This weekend will tell a lot about this team. No one circles the wagons like Phil Fulmer. (sorry fat bald guy on ESPN). If they lose “ugly” Saturday this might go down as one of “those” years.
by wvvol on Sep 25, 2008 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, agreed
This does appear to be a game that could define the rest of the year.
Go Vols!
by Joel on Sep 25, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they lose ugly on Saturday,
I’ll get really cheap Wyoming tickets!
(wrong silver lining in the cloud? ;-D )
by Hooper on Sep 25, 2008 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Coach Phillip Fulmer. He hates “Phil.” Call him Phil only if you are on the Anti Fulmer Train.
Someday we'll look back on this and plow into a parked car.
by MeytonPanning on Sep 25, 2008 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you know where he stands on "Great Punkin"?
I’ve always used it a nice way. Always loved me some Charlie Brown growing up.
Didn’t know he isn’t a fan of “Phil”
============
lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Sep 25, 2008 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Name Dropper!!
Trust me, I don’t know this because me and him are best pals or anything. I just remember a scene in the Winchester square where he was coming to his hometown, where his Mama still lives, after a season and there was some sort of ceremony. During rehearsals somebody said Coach Phil Fulmer and a old family friend made the correction. Funny the wierd little stuff you remember sometimes….
Someday we'll look back on this and plow into a parked car.
by MeytonPanning on Sep 26, 2008 10:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

by 




















