Tennessee freshman Nyshier Oliver charged with shoplifting on day of Memphis game
by Will Shelton on Nov 17, 2009 5:18 PM EST
in Tennessee Volunteer Football
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Lane Kiffin ran a clean program for more than eleven months. No arrests, highest team GPA in years, and while Kiffin's mouth may have raised some questions about his discipline, there was nothing tangible to stand on in terms of the discipline of the program.
In the last six days, much of what Kiffin - and the Vols who are doing it right - have worked to establish has been thrown by the wayside. On Thursday, Nu'Keese Richardson, Mike Edwards and Janzen Jackson were arrested on attempted armed robbery charges; Richardson and Edwards have since been dismissed from the team, while Jackson - who was released from custody on his own recognizance - still awaits his fate.
Today, it was reported that fellow freshmen Nyshier Oliver was cited for shoplifting at Dillard's in Knoxville's West Town Mall on Saturday, November 7, just hours before the Vols faced Memphis (story here from The Knoxville News-Sentinel). Oliver was/is looking at a redshirt and therefore apparently was not involved with team gameday activities leading up towards kickoff.
Oliver has a court date on November 23, and there are several questions surrounding this incident. One of the biggest in terms of the overall perception of Kiffin and the program is, when did Kiffin find out about this? Oliver shoplifted on November 7, and the other three freshmen were arrested on November 12. On November 11, during his weekly teleconference, Kiffin boasted of Tennessee's spotless record in terms of no arrests, etc. Did Kiffin know about Oliver's situation then, or, as Wes Rucker has pointed out, is it possible that Oliver kept it quiet because he wasn't arrested, only cited, and Kiffin didn't find out until later?
This is bad news either way for Tennessee's perception and Kiffin's once-clean record in terms of program discipline. To me, it's much worse if Kiffin knew about the incident when he made the comments four days later about the program being so clean.
There will be more disciplinary action to follow on both Oliver and Janzen Jackson...but Tennessee's once-stellar recruiting class has taken serious damage, and both Kiffin and the program must deal with the reality that questions of character and discipline are now back on the table. How will Kiffin and Tennessee go forward?
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I don't mean this as spin:
Given that Kiffin had been in the NFL as recently as August/September of 2008, and had only been hired on in December last year, his timetable for evaluating recruits was rather compressed. I wonder if that had any affect on his ability to judge character issues (and, as a follow-on, whether that could have made any difference with any of these players).
I doubt it
Even though we have had several disappointing news releases this last week or so, I dont think this is endemic of this program or kiffin. Plenty of programs have these issues constantly, its unfortunately a byproduct of many of these kids upbringing and mentalities that have been drilled into them for years.
However, because of Kiffin’s increased publicity for this program, we are certainly under the microscope by the nation. Hes a lightning rod for controversy, and everyone just wants to find weaknesses they can point to against Kiffin.
RIP Steve McNair (1973 - 2009) Retire #9!
Member of the Committee to Keep Keith Bulluck.
Eric Berry for Heisman!!
by Pride of the Southland on Nov 17, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
i understand being under a microscope,
try winning 2 outta 3 SEC and Nat Championships, it aint easy on the top, when you’re king of the mountain everybody wants to knock you off.
by pLANEolG8RB8 on Nov 17, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
I respect you, man,
but maybe the rivalry joshing could wait for a less serious thread, no? ;-)
by David Hooper on Nov 17, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
(and I say that just to avoid a derailment.)
by David Hooper on Nov 17, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
Agree
Also, it is important to remember especially with the three players that were arrested that they could have gone anywhere in the country. Jackson was being recruited heavily by LSU and Alabama till the last day, and those coaches would have had more time to evaluate “character.” Richardson also was obviously recruited heavily by Florida and some other SEC schools as well.
In the end talent is always going to win out over “character” issues almost everyday of the week.
hey hoop, all of the above could have some to do with the "how and why" but i believe;
LK convinced then recruit N.R. to “lie” to UM about his being commited to UT instead of showing him how to be a man and stand up and tell the truth. in Nuke’s mind, i believe, he thought “coach is ok with lying and deceiving”. then when nuke skipped practice and LK did not discipline him, then nuke thought he was bullet proof along with the rest of the team and figured they could get by with anything. every player on the team saw what happened and the end result is what it is. as you know i am one of the boys from old Florida. we have had our share of bad eggs, thugs, etc. all together i can only think of a few cases of players fulfilling their potential when they start out in trouble at UF. i sincerely believe that it is best to cut your losses and move on instead of keeping these distractions around. i know it is a hard decision, but UF has had to cut several blue chip players in the past few years. it is hard to do, but i believe we are better for it. good luck guys i don’t envy the position these boys have put your administration in.
some food for thought, if these players, carreers ended with an injury would the UT program shut down or keep moving along developing new players, you see, it’s the distractions that UT is dealing with, not the loss of a couple freshman players. being distracted causes games like ol miss.
by pLANEolG8RB8 on Nov 17, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Please forgive me for this: I’m going to sound arrogant as anything and I don’t mean to…
but I just can’t respond. Unfortunately, I’ve learned things that I’m just not supposed to know and I really can’t respond in any way without getting involved in all that. I’ll stand out of the way on this one.
I will say as a general concept, though, that dealing with distractions is a huge deal, like you say. It’s rarely a cut-and-dry situation, though. For example, we had a defensive end who, early on in his career, had a slew of troubles, but took his second chance(s) and turned himself around. Robert Ayers is now a solid contributor for the Denver Broncos and was a huge success story for Fulmer. Conversely, Fulmer kept a few players around too long and they turned into cancer cells within the program.
It’s hard on a coach when they spend so many hours with these player to cut one loose – even if it’s obvious. I may tease about Meyer on occasion, but I honestly don’t envy any coach that responsibility and, when you cut to the chase, I give the coaches as much benefit of the doubt as I can.
by David Hooper on Nov 17, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
the concept is right, these situations are rarely cut and dry
they are hit and miss, UF has had players with troubled pasts that have made it through, louis murphy stayed in the dog house for 4 years at UF until his break out year as a fifth year senior, of course he now is in the NFL. my point, how many “borderline” problem players are brought down by the guys who live their lives going over the line. look at JJ, ed, and nuke. Nuke "seems’ to have been the problem and look at who he has drug through the mud. along with himself, he might have taken the next eric berry down with him. This latest shop lifter may have lost respect/fear for LK for the way LK seems to have handled nuke skipping practice on sunday before memphis. my advice in these matters is deal with these guys with a heavy hand from the get go, come down harder than you have to for any violation of team or personal rules. if the player leaves, so be it, your program might be saving a super star like JJ from added trouble and maybe jail time. God bless my friends
by pLANEolG8RB8 on Nov 17, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Now, Im not condoning what Nyshier did, but
I dont really care when Kiffin found out about it/talked about it to the media. Until the media knows itself, Kiffin doesnt need to be talking about legal issues of players, as well as Nyshier wasnt even part of gameday activities. Deal with it in house, if he needs to be released, release him, and if the media doesnt report it, so be it. These are still kids.
RIP Steve McNair (1973 - 2009) Retire #9!
Member of the Committee to Keep Keith Bulluck.
Eric Berry for Heisman!!
by Pride of the Southland on Nov 17, 2009 5:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
…is it possible that Oliver kept it quiet because he wasn’t arrested, only cited, and Kiffin didn’t find out until later?
Yes, very. The best analog I have was during my Navy time: whenever a sailor would do something like this, they’d almost never say anything to command. I’d be surprised to find out otherwise.
And there are lots of little speculative games you could play with this whole scenario...
but if Kiffin did know about Oliver immediately following, would it have made a difference in preventing the other situation had he publicly disciplined him for it? The Brandon Warren situation was a little bit different and didn’t involve an arrest or citation, despite the swift discipline there…and I think ultimately people are continuing down the path they’re on, so if Nu’Keese/Edwards didn’t do something stupid last Thursday, that’s not to say they wouldn’t have later.
Again, all speculation and nothing concrete at this point…just rambling…
I feel compelled to point out that Oliver and Edwards were originally Fulmer's commits.
Carry on….
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
I’ll be honest: I really don’t care too much about that. JJ and NR were Kiffin commits, for one. But the team that set records for academics and went 11 months, 11 6 days without trouble was comprised of a majority of Fulmer players.
by David Hooper on Nov 17, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Missed the point.
I was merely throwing you guys a bone in defense of the “Kiffin can’t judge character” attacks sure to arise again. Do with it what you will.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Not knocking you guys
cause Lord knows we have had our share of issues. I am wondering, however, why this kid wasn’t at the game or supporting his teammates? I have no clue as to the “activities” in question, but I would hope even redshirts and scout teamers would hang out and support the team. Further, never having played ball, are these groups even allowed on the field? If not, that would explain it. But if they were, I would want everyone associated with the football program to be there to support the team.
It is important to find someone who allows you to fulfill your dreams. It is luck if that person finds you, too - Isaiah Zagar
That is an interesting question.
Maybe it’s because he’s not a part of the traveling squad (due to limitations on road rosters). Even though Memphis was a home game, the team stays at a hotel as if they were traveling, so perhaps Kiffin mimics the process.
Or maybe there’s a different reason. I don’t know.
by David Hooper on Nov 17, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
But some redshirts are there.
You hear of the redshirt being pulled of midgame from time to time because of injuries – especially with quarterbacks.
by David Hooper on Nov 17, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
You're killing me Smalls!
headdesk
"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook
I havent read any comments above
It seems a lot of the great players come from bad neighborhoods, or troubled homes. I dont know why. It just seems this way. So I dont bash schools when these kids get in trouble. Sure Meyers half game suspension was going to be rediculed, but recruiting the best players is what thier job is. Some times those players dont realize the chance they are getting to change thier lives, thats not the schools fault. Suspend them, and hope they learn thier lesson. If not let them go.
of course , the recruit cant already be getting into trouble in high school, then thats just recruiting a thug and knowing he will do stupid stuff at your school, thats a little different. But most of these kids got through school without any major wraps, maybe its the town letting them slide becuase they want them to make it big and represent thier city, idk.
for a lot of kids, sports are their way out of their neighborhood.
It’s a pretty strong motivation to learn to play well. And because of the difficulty of improving academics in many neighborhoods, sports serves as the point of pride.
by David Hooper on Nov 17, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
Hey hook did you hear
Uf got its 18th verbal commit today from cb joshua shaw out of california, rated one of the top 25 players in the country by rivals, go gatas
According to ESPN
I didn’t hear what Kiffin said in the PC before the armed robberies, but if he said that they hadn’t had any off the field issues yet, then he was most definitely lying. Appears he already knew about it before that PC.
i am trying to behave, but it doesn't surprise me
he did have nuke lie to the UF staff about his commitment to UT. there are times in life when honesty is the best policy. i hope Urban Meyer stays clear of this issue and doesn’t make any snide remarks with hidden messages.
by pLANEolG8RB8 on Nov 17, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
i hope Urban Meyer stays clear of this issue and doesn’t make any snide remarks with hidden messages.
You are certainly not practicing what you preach.
I think we all get your point, since you’ve repeated it in practically every post you’ve made here, so maybe you could give it a rest, at least on the TN site.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Same thing with Jackson
Jackson had been committed to LSU for almost two years while he was getting himself eligible (being helped as appropriate by LSU to do so) – Les asked him several times if there was any truth to his rumored de-commitment and (as encouraged by LK) he repeatedly lied! Not only is it just plain dishonest and dirty, it actually places the opposing team at a disadvantage – LSU held his scholarship (as I’m sure Florida did for Nu’Kesee) through signing day so it keeps them from signing a needed player. Call it what you want but there is nothing classy or professional in that!
Now it becomes clear that he lied, not to the media but to the league and his colleagues on the SEC Conference call. Don’t be surprised if Slive takes action, it’s not like he has built any goodwill with the league!
I’m sorry for Vols fans, I really do like Tennessee believe it or not, but I don’t see how UT can put up with this. If UT doesn’t do something about Lane it will become a laughingstock across the nation, whether or not they start winning games.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
"I really do like Tennessee"
No, I do not believe that. We took the best defensive player from your state.
Gator and Tigger fans, lecturing us hillbillies on the nature of recruiting.
CLK did not lie to anybody. Oliver didn’t tell Kiffin what happened as he was CITED as opposed to ARRESTED. One becomes public after a certain amount of time, one is public immediately. Not that I expect your caring heart to understand the difference.
By laughingstock, do you mean the coach and team ESPN talked about “being back” just this past weekend during College Gameday? The coaching staff that signed the #1 recruit in the nation with 6 weeks’ work? Get over yourselves. CLK is here to stay and he is going to out-recruit most schools each year. Your (and other clowns’) pining for his firing is such a tired refrain.
Ball, oskie, cover, block, cut and slice, pursue and gang tackle... for this is the WINNING EDGE.
by pound the rock on Nov 18, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
Links
If you have links to credible sources to support the assertion that Kiffin told Richardson and/or Jackson to lie to Florida/LSU, I want to see them. I’ve never heard of either of those things.
Rocky Top Talk
by Joel Hollingsworth on Nov 18, 2009 8:52 AM EST reply actions
He's just a Gator troll
sitting there in his jorts and Tebow jersey, madly pecking away on his Commodore 64.
Whether or not CLK told Nuke to “lie” (not very plausible), that has no bearing on a kid’s decision to jack someone at 2am with a pellet gun. Only biased logic could deduce such a thing.
Only a few more games where we get to watch Tebow and Meyer nuzzle each other on the sidelines before Tebow leaves for the NFL to become a 10-time pro bowl fullback.
Ball, oskie, cover, block, cut and slice, pursue and gang tackle... for this is the WINNING EDGE.
by pound the rock on Nov 18, 2009 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
sad to see some of the guys from govolsxtra
visit this site, i hoped everyone over here were the class acts that i have had the pleasure of conversing with thus far. sorry to have ruffled your feathers ;-)
PS it really cuts to the heart when you guys go FB on us poor UF fans
fair enough.
By definition, RTT is biased in favor of Vols fans and Vols views, so things like TE #15 will get more play than at Alligator Army, but I can ease up a bit on it. I prefer the conversation.
(But going forward, this is the place in SBN land for Vols fans to express themselves in Vollish ways. We may talk about TE #15, but the respect is still there nonetheless. He’s had an amazing career.)
by David Hooper on Nov 18, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
You have to start to consider that LK may have recruited a class that overall had a bunch of warning signs for bad character but knew to lay foundation early he needed play makers and ignored his better judgement.
Lets look at how its turning out so far. Based on Rivals rankings of your prospects from last years class….
- just got caught shoplifting last week..did kiffen know and avoid telling media to keep the squeakly clean image up???
- D.Hood we all know what he did….maybe he has turned it around for the good
- M.Edwards dismissed from team…clearly character issues
#4Nuke dismissed form team …clearly character issues - J.J. should be dimissed for getting caught smoking weed and being out late in compromising situation less than week later that ultimately led to an arrest..To be cont…
#1. Bryce Brown….hasnt done anything to date…but had a question mark over his head coming into season regarding some benefits he received from his shady handler….hopefully he learns from the others but To BE cont….
Great Game Hokies! What a battle!
by The Voice of Reason on Nov 18, 2009 10:48 AM EST reply actions
not sure what happend on my numbers but...
17th ranked recruit=N.O aka sticky fingers
13th ranked recruit=D.Hood aka I hope he has rehabilitated
12th ranked recruit= M.Edwards aka half of the duo of dumb
4th ranked recuirt=Nuke aka other half of the duo of dumb
2nd ranked recruit=J.J.aka caught smoking pot and in compromising situation less than week later aka 2 strikes
1st ranked recruit=B.B. came in with questions will call him AKA please dont follow in your team mates directions
Great Game Hokies! What a battle!
by The Voice of Reason on Nov 18, 2009 10:52 AM EST reply actions
SBN autoformats when it detects list-type form.
Annoying when you don’t intend it, but it can be a big help if you’re not html-savvy.
by David Hooper on Nov 18, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
So the jury is out on some of these guys still and they have a lot of proving to do....
I think we have not seen the last of off the fiend issues..but to date I fell Kiffen has done a great job addressing problems and handling them….except if he KNEW of the shoplifter =aka#17 and still made claims of not having any off field issues….which is unknown as of now….hood deserves a second chance…duo of dumb is gone…JJ is still gettin his due process….and BB was a victim of a shady adult …..que fishing trip laptop comparison…..So maybe kiffen is a little more specific on character recurits next year….maybe not…we will see ….but florida fans have NO ROOM TO TALK mess
Great Game Hokies! What a battle!
by The Voice of Reason on Nov 18, 2009 10:56 AM EST reply actions
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