Five theories about Lane Kiffin's jab at Urban Meyer
New Tennessee head coach Lane Kiffin is wasting no time irritating his rivals. He poached a coach from Nick Saban, was accused of cheating by Steve Spurrier, and most recently took recruits from Florida and called Urban Meyer a cheater.
About that last item: turns out Meyer's call to a prospect while he was on an official visit to Tennessee didn't violate any rules, according to the NCAA and the SEC. I present five theories for why Lane Kiffin decided to level a somewhat serious accusation on such flimsy evidence:
- The 'bless his heart' theory. This theory takes everyone's word at face value. Kiffin is a brash, rank amateur who thoughtlessly shoots off slanderous accusations with little evidence to back them up in a display of bravado. Florida Athletic Director Jeremy Foley's crocodile tears are actually not crocodile tears at all, but genuine tears of unfathomable sadness.
- The prison rules theory. The movies tell me on your first day in prison, you're supposed to kick someone's [Fulmerized] or becomes someone's [Fulmerized]. Coach Kiffin has chosen to shiv the biggest, baddest dude on cell block D. Only, instead of grabbing his shiv, he accidentally grabbed a plastic straw he stole from the cafeteria. Oops.
- The any press is good press theory. Tennessee is in the news this offseason, and it's not even for weed arrests or beating up students on the basketball courts!
- The end zone stomp theory. Knowingly doing something that isn't kosher by any objective measure to get in the head of your opponent. Urban Meyer does not take too kindly to Urban Meyer being called a cheater, and Urban Meyer's team will not forget this egregious offense against Urban Meyer. Urban Meyer.
- The Rick Neuheisel theory. This is sort of an amalgam of the bless his heart and prison rules theory, only motivated more by delusions of grandeur than by spite, bravado, or a sense of self-preservation. It's a little brother's desperate attempt to show his big brother that he can't pick on him. It's usually met with a laugh or an unceremonious wedgie. Or both.
Those are my theories. Have you got any others?
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118 comments
Comments
#6
How about: he really is that stupid.
I can understand (sorta) UT fans being impressed with LK’s “swagger”, but I can’t help thinking that at some point people are going to look back on this offseason as…prophetic. Didn’t he also say something to the effect of “this class is far inferior to ones we’ll sign in the years to come”? At the signing day rally ? What the hell is a signee supposed to make of that?
UT might indeed have hit a home-run with this guy, but right now he’s just a 33 year old coach with a penchant for acting like a 23 year old kid.
by sandman227 on Feb 6, 2009 11:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would file that under 'bless his heart'
"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook
by rustytanton on Feb 6, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
“Bless his heart” is the classic pair to any horrific insult in the Southern lexicon such as:
“Oh, bless his heart, he just can’t help but be a degenerate crackhead”
“She’s so ugly she’d drive lightning up a tree, bless her heart.”
Synonyms: “God love him”
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lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Feb 6, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
heh, well, yeah
in this case. – “bless his heart, he’s a few bricks shy of a house”
"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook
by rustytanton on Feb 6, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's amusing to me when people take things out of context
The same things get said over, and over, and over. And people start to believe them. And repeat them.
Lane said that they are extremely thrilled with the guys they signed. What they are not thrilled with is the fact that it is small (up to 20 now, though) and that we did not fill many of the needs we have… strength on the lines, no qb in two classes, etc. Just repeating something doesn’t make it true.
by rblakeh on Feb 6, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bullies don't like being bullied
Everyone knows that Urban and Saban are as dirty as they come. They are fantastic coaches and relentless recruiters, to be sure, but they have also earned their reputations as being classless (Urban more so than Saban, imo). If you think every coach who’s worth is salt will not pull out of every stop to motivate the fan base, land a top prospect, fire up his players, win a game, improve in the rankings, etc, etc, etc, you are living in a fairy tale.
Remember what Urban did to Patrick Johnson? You wanna talk about classless, that is classless.
by rblakeh on Feb 6, 2009 11:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Relatively, Saban seems to have turned over a new leaf
I thought his comments about Fulmer were pretty classy at the time.
"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook
by rustytanton on Feb 6, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
I’m not a Saban hater. He’s been decent enough of late…
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lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Feb 6, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
you’re missing the point.
First, if “everybody knows” that Saban and Meyer are dirty, I would think the NCAA would fall under “everybody”. So, so far, “everybody” doesn’t know that they’re dirty….relentless, yes.
Second, I agree with you that what UT needed was a jolt of energy in their football program after years of stagnation (like UT basketball), but “publicity” does not equal “energy”. Firing up the fanbase? Yes. Smack talking about winning future games? Fine.
Publicly accusing another coach of cheating while not knowing the rule yourself? Pissing off high school coaches by sending messages on recruits phones? You decide…
by sandman227 on Feb 6, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crocodile tears
This accusation was tame compared to the rumors and BS coaches spread about each other and their programs on the recruiting trail.
And I don’t seem to recall people getting pissed when the OBC/HBC did pretty much exactly the same thing to Kiffin a month ago.
"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook
by rustytanton on Feb 6, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Can you give me a recent example of of another head coach publicly accusing another of cheating? Bonus points: give me a recent example of another head coach publicly accusing another of cheating by breaking a rule that doesn’t exist .
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Spurrier said something to the effect of: “I don’t think he’s taken the recruiting test”, when in fact Kiffin had actually taken it? I agree with you: SS should never have made those comments in public….he should have made a discreet call to Slive in order to get the facts.
So if UT is going to hold itself to the Spurrier standard, good luck.
by sandman227 on Feb 6, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's interesting how fans take on the persona of their coaches
Whine, whine, whine, whine….
I’m kidding with ya, to be honest. (No sarcasm)
But Urban is a whiner.
by rblakeh on Feb 6, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Not a Florida fan, actually….In fact, I think Meyer will be exposed as mediocre once Tebow leaves. I just find it fascinating that Spurrier is considered classless for wondering if Kiffin took a recruiting test when he actually did (something I agree that he shouldn’t have done), but LK isn’t considered an idiot for accusing Meyer of cheating when he didn’t.
by sandman227 on Feb 6, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I agree
That’s the only part of this I find uncomfortable. It makes Lane look a bit clueless, for sure.
by rblakeh on Feb 6, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
... a bit?
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
by Gatorpilot on Feb 6, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actualy didn't take Steve's comment to be all that snide to begin with...
I actually took it as simply him giving a soundbite he figured the media would run. In a sense, I took it as a peculiar sort of compliment — as in Tennessee’s new coach was worth commenting on immediately after his hire.
Steve just like to get people going. I genuinely respect the man, and I never thought what he said was all that bad.
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lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Feb 6, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Take your pick of coaches accusing each other of cheating
Here’s but one:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-ucla30-2008dec30,0,5830203.story
"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook
by rustytanton on Feb 6, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice try...
I said “head coach”. Not going to hold people responsible for what their assistants say….Lord knows that Orgeron will be providing plenty of bulletin board marterial in the coming years. But the head coach/CEO is supposed to keep himself above that sort of thing
by sandman227 on Feb 6, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Now we're quibbling over semantics apparently
The central point is that these types of accusations are very, very common (albeit made behind closed doors instead of publicly), and that in light of that the Florida reaction has been whiny and melodramatic thus far.
Kiffin absolutely should have verified that Meyer was actually breaking a rule before saying something. And given the SEC rule against public criticism of other coaches, programs, etc, he probably should have filed a complaint quietly instead of making it an applause line at a recruiting event.
And Mark Richt probably shouldn’t have let his players stomp all over Florida’s end zone a couple of years ago either, as that was against the rules and could have gotten people hurt.
And Steve Spurrier probably shouldn’t have cracked that it was a shame that none of the books had been colored in yet when Auburn’s library burned down.
And… and… and…
"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook
by rustytanton on Feb 6, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whiny and melodramatic?
If a head coach publicly accuses another head coach of cheating when he didn’t, why would you think that a vehement denial is “whiny and melodramatic”? That’s….assinine. Either they treat Kiffin like a big boy who has credence when he makes an accusation and slam him back, or they treat him like a kid and don’t take him seriously….which is more insulting?
And I don’t think it’s semantics to believe that your head coach should be held to a higher standard than your assistants.
Like I said, if UT wants to hold itself to the same standard as Spurrier, good luck
by sandman227 on Feb 6, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're starting to get it
Either they treat Kiffin like a big boy who has credence when he makes an accusation and slam him back, or they treat him like a kid and don’t take him seriously….which is more insulting?
The more strategically sound response from Florida would be to blow off the statement. It would have been more effective to treat him like a kid who shouldn’t be taken seriously. Make a crack about how daddy Kiffin must not have been there to reign him in. Show a little humor about it.
And asinine or not, Foley’s response was whiny. Quote:
It is completely unfair to Urban Meyer, our coaching staff, our football program and our institution.
Unfair, he says. That’s whiny.
"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook
by rustytanton on Feb 6, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's hysterical...
So, if I were to accuse you in public of stealing from your employer, you wouldn’t think it was an “unfair” accusation? Dude, seriously….
by sandman227 on Feb 6, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you were to accuse me in public of stealing from my employer
I would sue you for libel/slander. I wouldn’t piss and moan about how unfair it was.
"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook
by rustytanton on Feb 6, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Too funny...
On what basis would you sue me? Possibly that it was an “unfair” accusation, since I had no proof? :)
You guys slay me
by sandman227 on Feb 6, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since you're confused
unfair = who cares?
untrue = potentially libelous/slanderous
"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook
by rustytanton on Feb 6, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And also..
What kind of point do you think you’re gonna make on a Vols blog about this?
by samhitch on Feb 6, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
… he’s making all the good ones.
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
by Gatorpilot on Feb 6, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good, Great, or Christ-like..
He’s arguing in the wrong place.
by samhitch on Feb 7, 2009 1:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Uhhh....
That one’s easy. Libelous statement regarding one’s profession without a vested legitimate business interest in the content of the utterance.
I’d take that action (and I don’t even do plaintiff’s work)
See, I knew my rules… (sorry couldn’t help it — no harm meant)
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lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Feb 6, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"I would sue you for libel/slander."
Be careful what you wish for, Urban Meyer might grant your wish.
by Zoltar on Feb 6, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In the context of a common business relationship
Doubtful he would have any hope of success. So long as Kiff wasn’t intentionally lying (when he knew it to be false) it wouldn’t be worth the trouble.
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lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Feb 6, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wouldn't it be slander per se?
Statements that fit into one of these four categories are considered slander per se:
1) reflecting adversely on one’s professional conduct (e.g., “Urban steals from the escrow account”)
2) related to crimes involving moral turpitude (e.g., “Urban sexually abuses his daughter”)
3) related to a loathsome disease (e.g., “Urban has syphillis”)
4) related to the unchastity of a woman (e.g., “Urban’s unmarried sister sure does like to bang a lot of dudes”)
This black letter law is brought to you by BARBRI (I made up the examples) And, yes, I passed the test (VA)…first try. WooHoo!
Anyway, I love Kiffin’s remarks, but I think it would fit into category 1. I have no idea how you calculate damages, though, and I’m not going to look that up.
by kidbourbon on Feb 9, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Even at that, hasn't redress already been attained?
Meyer, et al., have already requested a public apology and received one. One of you snakes will have to answer this, but wouldn’t that weaken a claim since the initial form of atonement has already been met – and that without resistance?
I know that all sense of decency goes out the window once you start talking civil suits, but it would seem that, very roughly speaking, one of the primary goals of the civil courts is to attain a balance of damage to compensation; if the apology was the initial desired compensation, what would suddenly cause a monetary redress to be more appropriate (other than “piling on” – certainly a tactic in Meyer’s arsenal…)?
by Hooper on Feb 9, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the goal of tort law
Yes, the goal of tort law is to “make the plaintiff whole” — compensate them at a level commensurate with the harm suffered. Punitive damages, however, are damages not awarded in order to compensate the plaintiff, but to deter the defendant (or other persons) from pursuing a similar course of action.
Because punitive damages give the plaintiff a windfall, they are reserved for special cases where defendant’s conduct is particulary egregious. Wouldn’t happen here, imho. Not even close.
by kidbourbon on Feb 9, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Adding to that,
I’m pretty sure that the NCAA/SEC has a lot of clauses added to their contracts that names the NCAA/SEC as the primary arbiter in any professional disputes (or words of that kind of nature). So if the NCAA/SEC demanded an apology and got one, it probably bars any legal action without a criminal basis of some sort.
…see? This law thing is easy…
by Hooper on Feb 9, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Blowing up a recruit's cell phone while he's on an official visit...
You decide.
See? It goes both ways. We could do this all day.
Oh, and for the record, the statements were made at donors breakfast. You can thank the Knoxville media for making it public. Not that I’m complaining… it’s the nature of journalism these days. Your press would have done the same thing, I would imagine.
by rblakeh on Feb 6, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Classless, yes
And he had every right to jab at Meyer for aggressively going after the kid and not getting him (although I’d think he’d want to lock down the state of TN before he takes jabs about other coaches not being able to close deals). But again, it’s not cheating, which is what LK, in his ignorance, publicly accused him of.
A reporter from CNNSI made this point, l think" what Kiffin has essentially done is made sure that every SEC coach will be turning them in at the drop of a hat…for everything . Major, minor, and even made-up.
by sandman227 on Feb 6, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good!
And we’ll return the favor. Fair is fair, I agree.
by rblakeh on Feb 6, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
UT is already one step ahead…at least with the “made-up” stuff :-)
by sandman227 on Feb 6, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
by Gatorpilot on Feb 6, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would you be refering to the whole Fulmer-gate thing?
That is old news and … well … on the strength of a very reliable source who is now a head coach at a non-SEC school but was a former SEC assistant, none of that whole ball of wax even started at Tennessee.
And in the interest of keeping it dead, I’m not even going to mention where it did start… (which always amazed me that everyone seemed to think it was Phil, bless his heart…)
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lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Feb 6, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reminds me of another private club meeting...
When Spurrier said that you can’t spell Citrus without UT. Man where those the days or what? Who’d have ever thunk that the Citrus Bowl.. or whatever they call it this year would be a good one? Anyway, Meyer is a punk, and I’m glad that LK called his slimy butt out. We’ll see in a couple of years how much of an urban legend he is….
by flag8rh8r on Feb 8, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Spurrier's jabs
He made a lot of them, but he was always right.
AND he had the team to back them up!
Kiffin is going to suffer badly for his transgressions.
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
by Gatorpilot on Feb 10, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rusty, you can file this under whatever number you think best
But Mike Hamilton and Coach Kiffin have a plan. They are redefining the Tennessee brand to recruits. College football is no longer a ‘good ol boys club,’ and as sad as that might be, it’s just the way things are. Pete Carrol, Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Les Miles, et al, have not gotten to where they are by being nice guys.
And just because they have a plan, it doesn’t make it the right plan. I’m not saying that. Only time will tell if it is the right plan. But I am confident that they’ve got a strategy.
by rblakeh on Feb 6, 2009 11:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I'm just having fun
This episode was a little ignorant in my opinion, but will be all but forgotten in a week or two by everyone except Urban Meyer and Jeremy Foley.
"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook
by rustytanton on Feb 6, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
RE: Florida and Alabama fans
If they are “not worried” and are gonna “hang 70 on us,” then why are they here arguing with us?
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 6, 2009 12:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Personally I just like kicking you when you're down.
by Zoltar on Feb 6, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At least you're honest.
And enjoy it while it lasts!
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 6, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Will do! Based on previous trends in this rivalry we've got a good while to go :)
by Zoltar on Feb 6, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep thinking that man.
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 6, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We will!
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
by Gatorpilot on Feb 6, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kicking us when we're down?
I think Meyer and Foley are the one’s pitching a fit.
by samhitch on Feb 7, 2009 1:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reminds of the joke # 6
A Irish brick layer is in a bar and he’s crying, He says see that church there I built her with me own two hands,see that bridge over there I built her with me own two hands,see that bank over there I built her with me own two hands. Do you thank they remember me McCloud the brick layer. But let ya go and sleep with one goat now !!
Phil,GO VOLS !!!
by bulldurham on Feb 6, 2009 1:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
oops / Reminds me of a joke !
Phil,GO VOLS !!!
by bulldurham on Feb 6, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that's what I was referencing
"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook
by rustytanton on Feb 6, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
kudos to you, man
that was a downright brilliant effort.
by kleph on Feb 7, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
The comment on Meyer is simply a comment made to a closed group being taken out of context. That is, Kiffin said “cheating” in the sense of “man, that’s some slimy stuff” but is was taken as “violation of codified NCAA and SEC rules and regulations.” In other words, he was speaking like a normal person and not like some degenerate lawyer (I can say that, I are one).
In the big picture, I think that there is a method to Kiff’s madness. I think he realizes that the Tennessee fans need something to help rally them to “the flag,” which a little controversy will accomplish.
Furthermore, I think — rightly or wrongly — he perceives a belief among the fans that Tennessee has been the “nice guy fuddy-duddy” type for a long time and have never really stood its ground the way it could (See Charlie Brown). I think that there is a definite feeling of this sort among many in the Big Orange fanbase.
I also think he believes that the opposite it true — that the other coaches (especially Urban Meyer) got used to walking on Tennessee and now feel an entitlement of sorts. I think this is also true. I think Kiff realizes that he has to stop that, and that the fans will gladly support him in this.
I also think — given who he has attacked and who he hasn’t (See Mark Richt, Houston Nutt, Rich Brooks, Les Miles, etc.) — that it is a calculated move to agitate those who simply cannot stand being agitated and love to agitate constantly. Steve Spurrier was the master of this in the 1990s — and it was very effective. He wants to try and begin to get in the heads of others who believe themselves to be mighty, but has notably spared the friendly sorts. (Oh, and for the record, Spurrier can take being agitated. In fact it often seems to make him respect others more. Plus, he was pretty affable in response to the whole recruiting test discourse.)
I think Kiff probably understands that the team might not fare well at first, but he is showing that he’s not willing to be pushed around now. It’s the proverbial “knock me down, and I’ll get back up and say it again, so you can knock me down, so I can get up and say it again, till I get strong enough that you can no longer knock me down” approach (man what a run-on).
I also think that Kiffin is simply not the kind of guy who shirks from a challenge, and the staff he has assembled bears that out. (Compare Mr. Edward Orgeron and … the World) Call me crazy, but he almost has me believing that he can pull it off as well.
To be able to win, you have to first believe that you can win. To take on the invincible, you have to believe you are invincible. (See This is Sparta)
Of course I also believe that Elvis Presley is living in Vonore, Tennessee under the assumed name “Leyland T. Vegas” and that Plate Tectonics is all part of some nefarious Communist conspiracy…
At its basic level, however, Kiffin is accomplishing something — getting the fans and team ready for a fight and getting the media interested enough to show up and document it all.
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lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Feb 6, 2009 3:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
LMAO.
You’ve got to be joking. He explicitly said that he was turning in Florida for a recruiting violation before he made the comment about Urban “having to cheat”. Take out of text, my ASS!
by Zoltar on Feb 6, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
meant to say taken out of context, not text.
by Zoltar on Feb 6, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
IT WAS A FREAKING JOKE. A FREAKING STATEMENT THAT WAS MADE TO MAKE THE PEOPLE IN FRONT OF HIM LAUGH. A FREAKING JOKE.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 6, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fulmerized
Zoltar, I know you were just basically quoting, but I Fulmerized ya. Apologies. Full Fulmerized thread below:
If you want to say it was a joke
then do so, but don’t tell me that he didn’t mean to say it was a recruiting violation when he clearly said, "I’M TURNING FLORIDA IN… IT IS A RECRUITING VIOLATION". Micheal Richards was trying to make people laugh when he called a man a [FULMERIZED]. How did that work out for him?
by Zoltar on Feb 6, 2009 4:29 PM EST to parent up reply reply Story-flag Flag Story-rec Rec Story-delete Delete Story-hide Hide Zoom 1 flags 0 recs
That my friend
is absurd comparison. Sports and race are two completely different subjects, that should hardly be mixed.
by bsmithinc on Feb 6, 2009 4:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
Where did he say he was gonna turn Florida in?
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin’ Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 6, 2009 4:51 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
He said “I’m gonna turn Florida in right in front of all of you”
Do you take everything someone says in front of you so seriously?
If you do, you shouldn’t. You’ll live longer.
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin’ Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 6, 2009 5:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
Go Vols!
by Joel on Feb 6, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This post completely confused me for like 5 minutes until I figured out what was going on.
Somehow I feel this needs to be recorded for posterity.
by Graysnail on Feb 6, 2009 7:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
I stole my own comment… HLL: Kiffin’s Jab at Urban Meyer | Gate 21
Hope that’s not a party foul.
So, is it plagarism when you steal it from yourself, after having given it to others in a place where it is shared with everyone?
Hmmm… ponderous.
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lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Feb 6, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If lawyers don't have the answers to these questions...
My brain hurts.
by Will on Feb 6, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, the more I think about this, the more ridiculous all this "outrage" seems
Who cares what Lane Kiffin says to make a bunch of boosters laugh? (which it did by the way) If Old Urb is not doing anything wrong, why are they whining about it? Sticks and Stones and Eric Berry. Who cares what other people say? Is he that much of an egomaniac? This is just silly.
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 6, 2009 5:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I see your point.
Ultimately it doesn’t matter because nobody is going to do anything about it unless he start’s losing games. If he starts winning then it will be forgotten like yesterday’s news. However it does matters in terms of people’s opinions on Kiffin. He’s your coach, so you’re going to have his back for the most part. I think a good number of Tennessee fans are embarrassed by it, but what are they going to do? Others will embrace it.
All the outrage in the world never put any points on the board, but it sure has been fun throwing sticks on the fire in this tiff.
by Zoltar on Feb 6, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, as long as it's all in fun, feel free to bandy about a bit.
It’s all entertainment, and if we were all face-to-face, it’d be much easier to kid around, jab at each other a bit, and have a great time doing it. So long as we’re all on the same page with it, it’s a great time.
To the earlier question: yes, it’s a bit of a facepalm moment. He could have riled up the boosters without delving into the “cheated” realm. I’m willing to live this one down, so long as he doesn’t get involved in probation-worthy “oopsies”. And either way, there’s absolutely nothing to be done about that, like you note.
Win or lose, though, I’m just hoping we don’t declare the UF-UT game over by the end of the first quarter again.
by Hooper on Feb 6, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Amen, at least take it to the half before the despair sets in!
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 6, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the outrage does make sense from their end.
On one hand, Kiffin’s boisterousness is good for UT as it gets our name associated with confidence and it gets the program in the news. On the other hand, if Florida can paint Kiffin as subpar, it’ll make their recruiting battles easier. UT would have to undo that zeroth impression.
It’s all posturing for the future.
by Hooper on Feb 6, 2009 5:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Gator fan chiming in
It seems there are 2 schools of thought here on Kiffin-Gate. There is the school of thought shared by 90+ % the football fan population and there is the school of thought of die-hard UT fans.
OK – UT fans, let’s take your point of view and assume that Kiffin’s comments were reasonable.
If that is the case, then what would you consider as a true example of slander and why do you think that your example is slanderous?
(My dictionary says slander is a verbal communication of false statements about another that injures their reputation.)
by 01Nov2008 on Feb 6, 2009 6:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I responded to txhawkeye below,
but I think that about sums up my response to your question as well. Hope it helps.
by Hooper on Feb 6, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Meyer's reputation was injured?
I’m still trying to figure out why they were 250,000 denials and objections. Someone want to explain how people’s opinions of Meyer have changed?
by Graysnail on Feb 6, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh. Now that's a good question
When we studied defamation in torts class (Instapundit was my professor for 2nd semester — woo!) (he was hilarious), we joked that some plaintiffs were “defamation-proof,” meaning that their reputation was already so bad that you couldn’t say anything that would injure it any further. The “Madonna is a [FULMERIZED]” defense.
Not saying that that works for Meyer. Just saw an opportunity to tell the story.
Go Vols!
by Joel on Feb 6, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no dog whatsoever in this discussion. I do have a question though. If you’re Tennessee, wouldn’t you prefer he actually win something before he start poking at HCs from foes that have won NCships? From the outside it looks like Kiffin’s heading down a path where his kids might be put in situations to get their asses handed to them a time or two next year. Forget about the outside noise. He is doing a disservice to a team that may not be starting from an optimal confidence level.
And what if he’s a dope who doesn’t realize the ramifications of his words? Very few listened carefully to him in Oakland, where his team wasn’t terribly relevant. I mean, there are cameras at these things, right? If I’m you guys, I’d be a little concerned.
by txhawkeye on Feb 6, 2009 6:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for asking.
I don’t want to be put in a position of necessarily defending Kiffin’s words; to be honest, I feel no compulsion to defend him at all. I think his choice of words was a mistake and that he was right to apologize (obligatory or not). We all make slip-ups from time to time; I’m more interested in supporting the correction of wrongs than the defense of wrongs.
But it’s easy to swing the pendulum too far the other direction as well. This one incident (and you could include a few other bold statements if you please) is an unfairly early and small sample to declare his career a success or failure. It gives reason to pause, as we might expect a few facepalm moments from time to time. But if he does exceed expectations, then this’ll all just be “swagger”, as far as ESPN is concerned.
As far as Oakland, there is extremely little that can be extrapolated from that gig. The one thing I keep in mind is that the players had a lot of respect for him, even though he was younger than some of them. Even as a Broncos fan, I had to give him that much at the time. It’s not enough to judge his tenure there by, but it’s something.
But no, I don’t defend him at all. In fact, it should be the home fanbases that call out coaches for missteps. When Richt took an intentional celebration call (even if it was supposed to be a smaller celebration, but went awry), it should have been the Georgia fans who first demanded the explanation. When Meyer keeps his starters in and has Tebow throwing passes with a 20+ point lead in the final few minutes, it’s the Gators fans who should question his tactics. When Saban declared that he was not going to Alabama in no uncertain terms, the Tide fans should have been the ones to demand clarification when he signed up. Ditto for Petrino. In the same spirit, ditto for Kiffin today.
Unfortunately, that’s not the case; I don’t know of any fanbase that acts in such a manner. Instead, an incident occurs, the opposing fans create an uproar en masse, and the home fans get defensive. It’s the same for everybody, and now seems to be our turn. It’s actually kinda fascinating, from an amateur psychologist-ish point of view.
by Hooper on Feb 6, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough. I can’t compare this to Pearl, as I think there was evidence he knew what he was doing (meanwhile my school hired the assclown Alford who drove us into the ground ). Next fall will be interesting, and you’ll have a ton of attention.
by txhawkeye on Feb 6, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well put
“n fact, it should be the home fanbases that call out coaches for missteps…Unfortunately, that’s not the case; I don’t know of any fanbase that acts in such a manner. Instead, an incident occurs, the opposing fans create an uproar en masse, and the home fans get defensive.”
Agreed. As far as Saban is concerned, the position most Bama fans have is that you simply cannot expect coaches to be candid when asked questions about possible employment changes while they are currently trying to coach a team. Do you really expect coaches to create a bigger distraction for their team by fueling rumors that you are leaving and jeopardizing your employment all in the name of telling some reporter the truth? Look at what happened to the Boston College coach this year. Fired for interviewing for another job. I can understand being upset if you were a Miami Dolphin fan, but I don’t understand everyone else trying to crucify Saban when he was in a difficult position like that. If Saban wasn’t absolutely certain he was coming to Bama, I have no problem with him denying that he would be our coach.
by Zoltar on Feb 6, 2009 7:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand.
And I really don’t want to lay out the tripwire for an argument over Saban’s hiring. I was very third-party when that occurred, and I’ll simply say that I could see some merit to both sides. Certainly, I wish reporters would stop putting coaches in such difficult positions. It’s really not very considerate.
by Hooper on Feb 6, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Me, neither actually
We too often fail to distinguish between a lie and a broken promise. And I don’t even know if Saban made a promise or was just stating his present intention at the time. A lie is saying something isn’t the case when it is or vice versa. Breaking your promise is not a good thing, but it’s not a lie. Changing your mind, well, that’s perfectly permissible, I think.
Go Vols!
by Joel on Feb 6, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for talking trash
I thought he was doing well with the comments at the initial press conference about singing rocky top at the swamp. Poking the bees nest, tugging on superman’s cape, etc, etc. yea yea yea. He was doing what he needed to do which was get UT behind him, and the opposing schools aren’t going to be any more motivated by that kind of stuff IMO. However, the recent comments were just stupid, and they totally backfired. The national perception of Kiffin has taken a big hit, but I don’t think that by itself it will make a difference on the field. Saban is proof of that.
The real question is what does this incident say about Kiffin’s ability to move Tennessee forward? I don’t think this incident is inspiring confidence for many Tennessee fans, but it hasn’t shattered their confidence either. I expect they will still be optimistic, though perhaps a bit more cautious in that optimism. As a Bama fan, I have no problem jumping to the conclusion that Kiffin is completely in over his head, Al Davis was right all along, and Kiffi Kins and the Funky Bunch are setting themselves up for failure.
by Zoltar on Feb 6, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ripples
As much press as this event has gotten in the near term, the future ramifications will be deeper and quite profound. And I’m not talking about anything like UT’s trip to the Swamp next year.
A man with no self control will not be able to rebuild this program. He’ll run it into the ground until he’s gets canned.
It is possible to go against the grain, be a maverick and be successful a la Steve Spurrier. But more than anything, Steve pissed people off by his behavior during the game and showing off by running up scores. But Steve was smart enough to stay on the good side of his allies (players, coaching staff, university / boosters, and the SEC and public commentary vis a vis his coaching peers).
To the extent Lane scored some recruiting coups, kudos to him. But was it necessary of beneficial in any way to public beat his chest about it? Was it necessary for Orgeron and Thompson to publicly taunt Nick Saban about their future recruiting supremacy? Was it necessary for Lane to publicly declare that his current recruitng class was inferior?
The answer to all of these is no. In fact, each of these pronouncements was unnecessary and counterproductive. They reveal an insecure person who requires and cultivates constant attention. Success in rebuilding your program needs to be done brick by brick with sweat and elbow grease.
For Lane’s sake and UT’s sake, I hope he’s focused on the nuts and bolts of getting his players / coaches integrated with a strong training regimen and making sure they are all hitting the books as well.
As Gators fans, surely we want to beat all of our opponents and I don’t root for Nick Saban or Mark Richt. But I’ve never heard a slanderous comment from any opposing SEC coach in 30 years. This is not business as usual.
Like any organization, UT’s future football success will be a function of the personality and behavior of it’s leader. If your coach can’t learn a little self control, bad results will follow.
by 01Nov2008 on Feb 6, 2009 6:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Defamation
Okay, suppose that I know that the speed limit on the interstate is 70. I see Urban Meyer doing 70 and know he’s doing 70. I say in public that Urban Meyer is a “speeder.” Defamation? Probably.
Suppose that I erroneously believe that the speed limit on the interstate is 55. I see Urban Meyer doing 70. I say in public that Urban Meyer is a “speeder.” Defamation? Nah. Just wrong.
Recklessly wrong? That’s the real question.
The standard for proving defamation is higher for public figures, and there is a “malice” component, which, if I remember correctly without looking it up b/c frankly I don’t care that much, is “reckless disregard for the truth or falsity” of the statement uttered. There’s an argument for both sides on that standard. Perhaps he acted recklessly in making an allegation about something he should have suspected wasn’t true. Or maybe he just really thought that what Meyer did was against the rule. It doesn’t matter much to me because either way, he doesn’t look so good, but going the defamation route thing would be a tough road and likely not worth anything to anyone.
Go Vols!
by Joel on Feb 6, 2009 7:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
He would also qualify for the common business exception
He would have a vested interest in the content of his statement: how people recruit in the SEC, and was making it in (for Kiffin’s purposes) a business related context.
From experience, that’s a tough nut / exception to crack.
============
lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Feb 6, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let it go people!!
I have been reading about this for two days now and its already getting old. Trust me, this is going to follow Kiffin and Tennessee every time the Florida game is brought up. We have looked at it from every angle imaginable. Everyone needs to relax, and let it go!! It pumped me up because I am tired of being walked on all the time by Florida. But Kiffin was wrong about it being a true “violation”. So he called him a cheater…big deal. I have definitely been called worse. Can we please just start moving on with something else. Its over. No one is getting fired, we aren’t losing recruits…nothing has changed. We haven’t won a game or lost one. 0-0. Let’s move on. Let’s talk about who we think is going to QB, or maybe, who is going to start as a Freshman. Now that has some substance…
by USMarineVol on Feb 6, 2009 11:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How about this:
Everybody in the nation expects Tennessee to go the swamp in September and get their collective [FULMERIZED] handed to them (I’m trying here, Joel!). So, if what everybody expects to happen, happens, then no big deal right? So what if he ran off at the mouth, we weren’t supposed to win anyway.
BUT
If the stars align properly as they did for the Rebels this past season, and Tennessee walks out of there victorious, then Lane Kiffin is immediatly elected Governer of the State of Tennessee and would never pay for another meal or drink anywhere he traveled in the state. Bigger than Elvis.
Just don’t tell me that this is gonna drive ol’ Urbs to run up the score. It wouldn’t matter if Coach Kiffin had gone to Gainesville and mowed his grass, washed his car and cooked him dinner, if he can hang 100 on us, he’s gonna do it. That’s just the kind of “classy” coach Ol’ Urbs is. And you can’t convince me otherwise. And a loss is still a loss whether it’s by 1 or 100. Fulmer never called Ol’ Urbs a cheater.
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 8, 2009 8:14 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
MeanBobMean,
I hid your comment for the [FULMERIZED] text that is found in your own Post. Since the comment was identical, it’s best to let all the responses land in the same spot. Again, thanks for commenting. I have nothing against your opinion.
by Hooper on Feb 10, 2009 10:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Classless?
If you Vol fans thought Urban Meyer was classless before, wait until he runs the score up on your d-bag of a new coach come Sept 19th! This tool is already taking jabs at the best coach in college football? Who the hell does he think he is? Enjoy you 50 point beat down and another mediocre season Vol fans. You will be crying for Fat Fulmer by week 5.
by gatorader on Feb 11, 2009 8:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good gracious, I'm excited!
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 11, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Watching UT lose by 500 would still be better than watching any MLB game.
by rblakeh on Feb 11, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Run the score up!
It’s all about margin of victory these days, right?
by Graysnail on Feb 11, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Run up the score!
It’s all about margin of victory these days, right?
by Graysnail on Feb 11, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
The sweet part is having different headers on the comments. ;-)
But hey: Run up the score (up) twice! :-D
by Hooper on Feb 11, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s funny how the same fans who say Kiffin’s talk is cheap and that talk means nothing keep coming around and saying the Vols are going to beat by X and that the Vol fans are going to have a Y season and feel in a Z way. Really? Based on what?
And yet we all have the same record right now. Interesting.
by rblakeh on Feb 11, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They are scared man.
Either that, or there really is something going on down there that is a little shady.
Why else are they so up at arms about it?
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 11, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
based on what?
its based on the fact that your team has no talent……………. unless you play on running eric berry out there at every position, your team is going to suck again. by the way, nice loss to wyoming on homecoming last year too……….baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
by gatorader on Feb 12, 2009 7:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you a sheep? What is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 12, 2009 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
......
thats me laughing at your pathetic team…………
by gatorader on Feb 12, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha. Classy.
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 12, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right on.
Where were you when Alge fumbled? I was in 339, hatin' Music City Miracles!
by gramsey712 on Feb 12, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What you don’t understand is that we will try and win for sure. But we are thrilled that for 60 minutes we get to beat on you with no mercy. Yeah you might hang a few points on us but let’s see how that feels on Sunday morning on the trainers table. We have taken your beatings before without much more than a whimper. Never again. This is what really worries you freaks is that you will be involved in a bloodbath so early in the season and will be unable to field your starters for the rest of the season. So run it up if you can. I doubt it will happen but amuse yourselves. To borrow my favorite line, The few, the proud, the Volunteers! And to the bottomless well with gators.
Make the opponent bleed win or lose
by belayvol on Feb 14, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

















