Gillispie Out at Kentucky? With That, I Am Officially Scared
It's official: Gillispie is no longer the Kentucky men's basketball coach. The conditional language I used may now be ignored; the rest of my feelings still hold on the matter. [Note by hooper, 03/27/09 4:30 PM EDT ]
At the time I write this, the closest thing to a confirmed report is a Louisville news station reporting that their insiders say that Gillispie will no longer be Kentucky's men's basketball coach - and a subsequent denial by UK. (Both sides are sticking to their guns, so we still know nothing.) What is certainly true, though, it that the possibility of Gillispie's termination is very, very real. That means that, after two years and a $4 million dollar buyout, the Wildcats would be starting over yet again with a new coach. Rumormongering out of the Commonwealth is naming all the "hot" names like Donovan, Calipari, Ford, Pelphrey, etc. That's natural; any program that sees themselves as a historical power always looks to the biggest fish first. We did the same thing last fall for a different sport.
At any rate, the prospect of this early departure scares me.
I'm not at all worried about the actual basketball games between Kentucky and Tennessee. Assuming that Gillispie is indeed out (and I'm going to write under this assumption for the rest of this article), even if we knew who the successor was, it'd be too early to surmise the impact the change would have in the SEC East. UK was getting great recruits under Gillispie and would have been a dangerous team; there's no reason to believe that it would be substantially different under a new hire.
What scares me about the whole thing is the level of unrest in basketball fanbases in the SEC this year. Much of the Kentucky faithful are drawing daggers. Florida's Donovan has complained about unrealistic fan expectations (what? you can't win the NCAA tournament every year?), as has Pearl (what? the best four consecutive years in program history aren't good enough?). Last year, LSU got rid of Brady for perceived underachieving, and now Arkansas is showing signs of malcontent in their program. All of this unhappiness is coming from the "top" programs in the league (with no disrespect to Vandy and MSU). Those who are having the most success are the most dissatisfied and the most demanding for more.
It's not just griping on chatboards and at watercoolers, either. That kind of complaint is ignorable; it happens at every program and is just part of being a fan. It's the tumultuous attendance and drop in revenues that is coupled with the complaints that are problems. Like Fulmer at UT, no coach can survive dramatic revenue losses combined with discontent and apathy. (Oddly enough, UK fans aren't even apathetic and aren't staying home. This is happening because the Kentucky AD fears apathy in the future.) The margin for error is rapidly shrinking across the entire conference, as fans at all of the aforementioned schools are beginning to leave (or have left) seats empty.
As if all of these coaches can magically will the team to win championships every single year.
In the SEC East alone, you have Kentucky, Florida, Tennessee, and Vanderbilt routinely competing for the division title - and South Carolina appears to be entering the fray. In a perfectly socialist distribution of wealth, each program would win the East once every 5 years. And that's just the division In the entire SEC, add LSU, MSU and Arkansas as teams with fanbases that believe they should be in contention. That's a total of eight programs who want the SEC regular season and tournament titles. Again, playing the socialism game, a fair distribution would allow each school to win one title or the other every four years - but not both.
But we know that socialist theory wouldn't work in competitive sports. Who'd pay to see a guaranteed outcome? So instead, there's variation. And variation means that some of those programs will win a few more than their "fair share" over a period of time, while others will experience a dearth of "success". They can't all win, and some schools will not see a championship for as many as 10 years at a time if all of these schools feel they should be the top dog.
So Gillispie gets the axe after two years?
Let's look at something else: why was Gillispie brought in? The short answer is that Tubby was fired and a vacancy needed to be filled.
- Tubby's dismissal was primarily on the grounds that he didn't bring in the talent needed to win (though he did a great job coaching what he had). If we simply accept that at face value (and avoid a distracting argument), then Gillipsie came into a program that lacked the talent to win.
- After his first year, Gillispie had his first true recruiting class. (He did snag Patterson and Legion in his first offseason, but it was an incomplete class. I'll call it a half class, which is about right when you consider Patterson's contirubtion and that Legion left for Illinois.) That class entered Kentucky as freshmen this last year. Next year, if Gillispie were to be retained, then approximately half of the team would be his recruits - and underclassmen at that.
You have to look at both facts together. Even next year, you're looking at only 2 true classes under Gillispie while the rest of the team is comprised of veteran leadership of - Smith's "untalented" recruits. The very justification for firing Smith suddenly is a nonfactor in the performance of the Wildcats under Gillispie. It's a microwave mentality, where problems magically disappear if you just rub the right ointment onto them without taking the time to fix the underlying problems.
How It All Matters To Us
Tennessee fans are no different from Kentucky fans in this. Coming off the best 4-year streak in UT men's basketball history, there is some mild-yet-noticeable apathy from the fanbase. Attendance sagged throughout conference play - even before the early losses were on the books. Pearl has mentioned the decline in support several times, and it's worth listening to.
It strikes to a very tense conflict in the role of fans and coaches for a collegiate sports program. On the one hand, the fans foot the bill for the program through attendance, merchandise, and the passed-down costs of sponsorships. Sports are expensive, and the fans who pay good money expect the best product they can get. On the other hand, these are not pro sports. The athletes get stipends and scholarships, which is argued by some as a form of payment, but they also have the classroom and off-court responsibilities of students and university representatives. It's not fair to them to call their scholarships compensation for sports, when they're so heavily restricted in terms of sport hours and usually fill the rest of their week with the academic workload. And coaches stand astride the two positions - having to satisfy both the paying fanbases and having to guide the players to athletic and academic success.
The wins and losses are not what fans should focus on when trying to decide if their coaches are good enough. One team must win, the other must lose. Within the context of all the restrictions by the NCAA, even the best teams will have down weeks and may fail for reason outside their coachs' abilities to control. Each fan should ask themselves these questions about their coach:
- Are they running a clean program?
- Are they doing everything they can to run a competitive program?
- Do they have the potential to coach a team to the level the school can afford to pursue?
- Do they represent the school and the program well?
If all of those questions are honestly answered "yes", then you really need to find compelling evidence to justify the firing of a coach. I suspect that question (3) is the one that Kentucky is using to release Gillispie, but we've already seen that it's not entirely fair to hold him to the standards of Rupp's teams when he's not working with "adequate talent".
When I ask myself those questions of Bruce Pearl, I answer: yes, yes, yes and YES.
It's one thing to hold high expectations; you almost never achieve a higher goal than the one you set for yourself, so reach for the moon. But show a little appreciation along the way. If all we do is demand more and we never say thanks, then we don't deserve what we'll end up losing.
And if Pearl decided to leave for a place like Arizona, I couldn't blame him. There are much higher profile programs out there that might show interest in him, and such a move would be similar to Saban leaving Michigan State for LSU (remember that Saban wasn't the Evil One back then). I dont think he'll leave Tennessee so long as he thinks the team is being supported and appreciated - things we can do even if we're critical of the progress of the team.
/ramble
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36 comments
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Comments
We're the friggin SEC
Not the Big East or the ACC. Donovan had a team with incredible talent all around when they won the NCAA tournament and I have nothing bad to say about Pearl at all. And I still think Memphis is a joke, therefore I think Calipari is. I think it’s very unrealistic for SEC fans to have the expectations that we have the recruiting dominance, schedules, and media time that the teams from the Big East and the ACC have.
I don’t know that much about NCAA Basketball, I admit, but I think it’s going to take a lot more than 4 consecutive appearances in the NCAA tourny (which I think is pretty flapping impressive) to suddenly be a recruiting powerhouse. I don’t expect it to be and I don’t think anyone else should either. Realistically, I think the only teams in the SEC that need to be looking for new coaches are Alabama, Arkansas, and Ole Miss. For people to be piping for Donovan’s, Pearl’s, and Gillispie’s thumping is just ridiculous to me. In Gillispie’s first year they went to the NCAA tourny. Yes, they got thumped by ND of all schools this year in the NIT, but the guy has had two years, incredibly beautifully, and simply has not been given the chance to show his full potential.
Wanna hear some music?
by samhitch on Mar 27, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Billy G and Billy D
Quick aside before I get into it all: Speaking from Lex, almost no work is being done in this city today, as everyone is hanging by a thread if Billy G stays or goes. A Louisville news station reported earlier today that it is official that he is gone, but UK has come out and said that report was false and that no news conference has been scheduled for today. Still theres rampant speculation.
I personally feel that it is too soon for Billy G to be leaving. 2 years is not enough to judge a coach, and most likely will hurt the program more in the long run. Granted this is coming from a Tennessean, living in KY, who has limited knowledge on bball. (footbaw is wheres its at yall!)
Regarding your four questions in relation to Billy G, i think it does say something about why he is in as much trouble as he is. Their season could’ve easily been a 25 win season had some shots fallen the other way, and this discussion may not have ever happened if that was the case.
Now for Billy G,
1. Are they running a clean program? YES (as far as we know, and there has been nothing to show otherwise)
4. Do they represent the school and the program well? And heres the stickler. NO. I think Billy G would be in a much better place if he was just more willing to be more public. He has been combative to the national media, and his public statements have been vague at best when answering to post-game failures. He has mostly stayed out of commenting to the media, leaving fans unsure of what is going on with the team itself. Not to mention there have been many unflattering reports of alcohol getting the best of him, and cavorting with the college ladies, which isn’t good for a public figure like the UK basketball head coach.
Finally, those who are calling for his head, almost all want him replaced by Billy D. Which I also find incredulous, as hes been to the NIT more the Billy G has in the past two years. I find Billy D to be a bit of an underachiever, the bright spots on his record being the NCs, but since then, two NITs? How do you go from the former to the latter, especially with the top 5 recruiting classes he has had since the NCs?
Man I hate Lexington when it comes to UK bball coaching staff. This will be my second coaching change in the 4-5 years I have been here, and there is nothing worse in this town when it happens.
now with less meyton panning.
by Pride of the Southland on Mar 27, 2009 12:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Trust
I think that’s the intangible x-factor once you’ve looked at all of those others. Do you trust the head coach with the future direction of the program? Not saying that you won’t have disappointing seasons, not saying that you won’t have years where the rug comes out from underneath you…and not saying, obviously, that you won’t win championships. But do you trust this guy going forward?
Fulmer had that for the longest time, but when he lost it in 2005 he wasn’t able to build it back up far enough in 06/07 to survive 08. Bruce Pearl has that now, in capital letters like you put.
But Gillispie’s never earned it, and that’s on and off the court. If this is the year of revolution in the SEC, with the heads of Fulmer and Tuberville and perhaps Billy G already rolling off the guillotine, I hope the reactionary turn of events is for all 12 schools to step back, take a deep breath, and embrace greater realism. You will not win a championship every year. You will not win every game. You need trust.
I think half of the football schools have trust between their fanbase and head coach. There are a couple spots where maybe that’s wavering (South Carolina), and places where new trust is offered more freely (Tennessee) than others (Auburn).
And probably about half of the basketball schools have the same trust. Maybe it’ll always be that way. But I hope the expectations ‘round these parts don’t keep going up. They can’t. Or else one day no one is going to want to coach in the SEC.
by Will on Mar 27, 2009 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good but not Good enough !
Dallas has the Cowboys, Atlanta has the Braves and Kentucky Univ. has basketball ! Were they are well funded. By say people like Bill Gatton that owns more than a few car chains ( wild Bill ) . But still I think it’s to early to cut the cord,however as Pride of the Southland brought up about the drinking and college girls this could be the time to fire him for one reason but it may have to do with somthing else.
Phil,GO VOLS !!!
by bulldurham on Mar 27, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point in there.
There’s always the (very real) possibility that there’s more to the story than what is publicly known. If so, there may indeed be underlying reasons to release Gillispie.
The problem is that so many fans are so willing to release him and they don’t know these reasons either. The public judgment is coming from the known information. that’s the same mentality that could encourage people like Pearl to find more pleasant pastures if we’re not careful about it ourselves. Again, criticism is completely fair. But it has to be balanced with acknowledgments of appreciation and a little dose of reality on the part of the fans.
by Hooper on Mar 27, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
TN. nation can be less then tacfull with what they say about UT sports. I remember coming back from a football game that my dad and I went to . And we were listening to a talk radio show and some of the stuff that was said I just couldn’t believe. I wish I could come to more games but still living in Charlotsville,VA. but plan to move back to Bristol in about 3 to 4 years.
Phil,GO VOLS !!!
by bulldurham on Mar 27, 2009 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Apples and Big Oranges
You make some good points, but I don’t think you can really compare UT basketball fans and Kentucky basketball fans. I don’t think anyone here legitimately expects to win a national championship in basketball, but a Final Four would be nice. At Kentucky, any year they don’t win the national championship is seen as abject failure.
They are like Bama football fans. Not only do they make outrageous claims, but they seem to honestly believe them.
I can’t explain why the students didn’t show up to games this year, but even Pearl would admit that the way this season went on the court was somewhat disappointing. I would think he is intelligent enough to expect the fanbase to react accordingly. And I would just as much expect him to make comments to try to rally support for his team. I think it is reading too much into such comments to worry that he is any more prone to leave now than he was at this time last year.
If the right offer comes along (be it more prestige, more money, more whatever) then I won’t blame Pearl for going and I will be grateful for what he did for our program.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Mar 27, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Very well put ! Ditto +1
Phil,GO VOLS !!!
by bulldurham on Mar 27, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth...
… I am scared of Coach Pearl leaving us, but not anytime too soon and certainly not to Kentucky. He’s too smart to go to a place where no matter how well you do it’s not good enough, and not egotistical enough to think he can win the national championship every year (like Saban at Bama.)
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Mar 27, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Biily G. Is gone !
Cruised the sea of blue site that place is buzzzzzzzzing !!
Phil,GO VOLS !!!
by bulldurham on Mar 27, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yea
They’ve got a big community there and this news is huge. I keep hearing more and more that Donavan is a done deal fwiw, that could make things very interesting.
by Getoffmyvols on Mar 27, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW ! What a year in the SEC !
Phil,GO VOLS !!!
by bulldurham on Mar 27, 2009 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ITS OFFICIAL Billy G is done in KY.
Just heard on local radio. Press conference coming at 4:30.
now with less meyton panning.
by Pride of the Southland on Mar 27, 2009 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A comment in Post form.
Here is my two cents, well, sort of:
Is Billy Clyde out at Kentucky? | Gate 21
I suppose I have no shame…
============
lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Mar 27, 2009 4:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep it's official...
============
lawvol: Gate 21 - Life, the Universe, & the Bounce of the Ball
by lawvol98 on Mar 27, 2009 4:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I read it on the internet, so it must be true
Gillispie’s replacement should be familiar to SEC/Munsters fans:
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/032709source_donovan_leaving_UCF
Andy Katz apparently said on ESPN just now that he would be “shocked” if Donovan went to Kentucky though, so I don’t know what to believe. But there are times I would like to see Andy Katz get shocked.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Mar 27, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Right now, the odds favor Donovan.
It’s kinda like betting on the Kentucky Derby (pun/irony/whatever intended). But the best odds lie with the guy from Florida.
by Hooper on Mar 27, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont see why UK wants to replace one NIT with two NITs.
The only upside is that Donovan is good with the media, especially compared to Billy G. And he does NCs under his belt, which is more than Billy G can say. But I still feel hes either slipped in his abilities or underachieving.
Maybe UK’s resources can help that though.
now with less meyton panning.
by Pride of the Southland on Mar 27, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why on earth would any coach go to Kentucky if they’re not even going to get enough time to coach a team of their own recruits? Having a quick trigger on firing coaches for underperforming is a sure way to keep the big names away; they can find jobs where they won’t be expected to deliver a championship every single year.
by SpartanDan on Mar 27, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't make any sense to us either.
And I don’t think it makes much sense to a lot of Kentucky fans. This one’s entirely the decision of their athletic director, Mitch Barnhart.
I’m really beginning to wonder if there’s something under the surface that’s not being publicized. This just doesn’t add up.
by Hooper on Mar 27, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really think this its due to his media presence (or lack thereof)
Hes been terrible with the fans, the AD, etc. He hasnt put a good face on the program, and after some crushing losses has shown little emotion or any willingness to step up afterwards. On the sidelines he just looks like a bump on a log a lot, like he’s unwilling to take control.
Not to mention his extracurriculars. Hes not like tubby and The Tubby Smith Foundation. He snubbed the traditional charities that UK coaches are connected to such as the Rotary Club. Its a pretty well-known fact here in Lexington that hes been seen leaving girls dormitories in the AM, and lush.
now with less meyton panning.
by Pride of the Southland on Mar 27, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if something like a Kiffin-Davis battle became publicly known
It seems to me he doesnt have very good relationship with the AD and unwilling to take responsibility.
now with less meyton panning.
by Pride of the Southland on Mar 27, 2009 5:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t mean to imply thats what actually happened between Kiffin-Davis, but that similar accusations may become public.
And another crazy tidbit: Fans have not only been calling for the AD to resign but the president of the university itself.
now with less meyton panning.
by Pride of the Southland on Mar 27, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the very least, this one's going legal.
UK has already said they’re not paying the full buyout. I don’t see how they can get out of it, short of having a Kentucky graduate as the presiding judge/arbiter. But at least this is parallel to the Kiffin/Davis deal.
by Hooper on Mar 27, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gillispie refusing to sign his contract helps
If that’s correct, then there’s a good argument that KY’s offer was never accepted and that there’s no agreement other than what they’ve been doing.
Rocky Top Talk
by Joel on Mar 27, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Donovan to Kentucky!
Official MCM Hater!
by gramsey712 on Mar 27, 2009 5:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lotsa conflicting reports going on obviously.
Birdjam has an article of him supposedly stepping down soon and taking over at UK.
I was just informed by a friend that WKYT – Lexington’s local news station – has already reported that Donovan has said hes not interested. I’m trying to find the link myself but unlucky so far, so hopefully my friend will supply it to me soon. If he does, ill post it asap.
now with less meyton panning.
by Pride of the Southland on Mar 27, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just read in the Orlando Sentinel that he has said he is staying.
But Saban said “I will not be the Head Coach at Alabama.”
Official MCM Hater!
by gramsey712 on Mar 27, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember that the guy we're talking about
Took the Orlando Magic job for what, two weeks? If that?
by Graysnail on Mar 27, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More like two days.
Seriously.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Mar 27, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hooper, did you REALLY
Have to bring up Arizona and Pearl in the same sentence? I’ve been hoping that nobody made that connection until the spot was filled. That opening scares the life out of me. Remember how I was all about Brian Kelly? There’s probably a guy on Arizona’s board making the same case for Pearl, especially if they were following some of the comments he’s made.
by Graysnail on Mar 27, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not the first to mention that.
Mr. SEC had that thought posted two days ago. I had figured it was a fairly common fear or I would have credited him.
by Hooper on Mar 28, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quote of the day
From John Pennington this afternoon – “If Billy Donovan goes to Kentucky, that’s jumping out of the frying pan and into the sun.”
by Will on Mar 28, 2009 12:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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