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This is a comforting conceit, but does anybody realistically believe that that’s how things went down? That Junior sat in Mike Hamilton’s office and told the man that he was offering Kiffin too much money? Don’t be ridiculous.

Kiffin and Chizik – don’t forget, we’ve heard the same talk about this "new model" from the Auburn faithful, too – didn’t take less money as a result of some conscious, deliberate course of action on their part. They were offered the money they were offered because that’s what was justified by their respective resumes. In both cases, those resumes were considerably thinner than those of the men they were replacing.

Has he got a deal for you. " Get The Picture
Can someone please find the link to refute this?

5 months ago Fiddler_on_the_roof_fiddler_1__tiny Joel 16 comments 0 recs  | 

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This is behind the VolQuest paywall

But this story talks about his contract breakdown and quotes Hamilton as saying that Kiffin refused the personal bonuses for winning SEC/National Coach of the Year and reworked the contract to award that bonus to all his assistants.

by Will on Jun 22, 2009 9:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hamilton said having enough money to assemble the right staff was one of Kiffin’s biggest priorities when they talked about the job.

“This is a true team player,” Hamilton said of his new hire. “What he talked to me about was that, ‘If I’m going to succeed and we’re going to succeed, it’s about having the right people around me. I want to hire the best possible staff I can hire, a staff that everybody in college football looks at and says, ‘Oh my gosh How did Tennessee put that staff together?’ It even goes as far as there are a couple of places in his contract that talks about if he wins SEC Coach of the Year or national coach of the year and what he would get for that, and he came back to us and said I don’t want that. I want that to be split among the staff. He recognizes the staff will have a great deal to do with the success.”

by rblakeh on Jun 22, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just typing a comment up on that!

That second article you link has a lot of good quotes about the whole thing. There was a lot of emphasis on throwing money at Monte and Ed. Hamilton approached the salaries as a zero-sum game:

“First of all, ultimately I look at the salary pool – the head coach and assistant coaches – as a line item in our budget,” Hamilton said. "At a lot of institutions, the model is the head coach is making a significantly higher salary than anybody else on his staff.

So to toss money at assistants, it had to come from the pool of money for other coaches. They couldn’t exactly reduce the normal pay scale for the other assistants (and hope to get anybody decent), so the money had to come from the salary that Kiffin might normally have made.

We’ve been down this road before. The model really is a different mode. No, we weren’t in the negotiating room, but neither was he. We have to also remember that Kiffin’s extremely young and he has a lot of time to make his money. If he wins championships early, he’ll be making bank for a long, long time. It’s a reasonable stance to think that Kiffin would think long-term on this one.

by Hooper on Jun 22, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's with Georgia bloggers just pulling theories out of their butts lately?

I generally think a lot of them despite hating everything they stand for, but there isn’t a much lower form of life in the blogosphere than someone who just makes stuff up.

"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook

by rustytanton on Jun 22, 2009 9:31 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thats the problem with actually refuting anything in this story. Its all heresay and speculation.

They have set themselves up in this, so that they cannot be refuted until after the fact.

Tell you what – if Junior or Chizik gets off to a roaring start and turns down the large raise that we all know will follow from that so that his assistants can be properly rewarded in the wake of success, I’ll issue a big time mea culpa about this post. But I wouldn’t hold my breath that it’ll be necessary to apologize.

It can’t be refuted, instead they set up parameters to refute it after success or failure when the season begins.

The real insinuation is this:

They were offered the money they were offered because that’s what was justified by their respective resumes. In both cases, those resumes were considerably thinner than those of the men they were replacing.

That they didn’t deserve the salaries that they were supposedly offered. Basically, they are speculating and creating a scenario that Kiffin had no choice in his current salary, that Hamilton dictated he would take this salary. None of us were in that meeting, only Kiffin and Hamilton. Thus it can’t be refuted. I could create any number of scenarios of how those meeting went down, and there would be little to nothing you could do to disprove it because its heresay.

now with less meyton panning.

by Pride of the Southland on Jun 22, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

Mark Richt has carnal knowledge of goats. Prove he doesn’t, go!

"Florida didnt win their first SEC title until 1991 and now they think they invented football."
-Ron Zook

by rustytanton on Jun 22, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

LOL

Tennessee WILL beat Georgia on the way to 9+ wins in '09!!!

by VolBrian on Jun 22, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Hamilton hired a guy who had no room to negotiate on his salary, then Hamilton made a horrifically bad decision.

If the salary was forced on Kiffin because he had no way to negotiate it to the more normal levels of a new hire in the SEC at the bigger-name schools, then Hamilton intentionally hired a guy who was underqualified for the position. But that would be trading a short-term gain for a long-term loss.

The AD was facing a deficit because so many people were apathetic. Reducing Kiffin’s salary would not make up the gap – not this year and certainly not in the long term. Financially, the AD’s best interest was to find a guy who would be successful. (After all, for all the grief Alabama received over Saban’s salary, they’ve seen some serious ROI.) It just doesn’t make any sense – especially considering how willing Hamilton has been to spend money in previous years.

by Hooper on Jun 22, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding his quotes on my original post.

He was right to sic the typos where I forgot that the story editor doesn’t read in html tags. I caught that earlier and changed the tags back to the correct italics, but since he’s linked to the tags I wanted to be clear that I wasn’t trying to hide my typos. Those mistakes were real and I’ll comment on that in the article’s comment.

For the record.

by Hooper on Jun 22, 2009 9:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And also FTR,

I have no problem with Blu’s take on the situation. It’s not an unreasonable point of view by any means. I disagree, but I don’t mind.

And to be fair, I don’t think the picture was so pious as having Hamilton holding a bag of money in front of Lane and Lane shaking his head and insisting that he give it to the poor (so to speak). Rather, the negotiations were probably done holistically. I have no doubt that Lane told Hamilton he intended to go after his dad and O. Mike then told Lane that there was only so much money to work with. They then whittled down to an agreement that maximized their goals. It’s a standard business proceeding.

by Hooper on Jun 22, 2009 9:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with your take, Hooper

Having had several of those meetings in the real world, most companies have a line item in the budget for the salaries and bonus comp. If the division president wants to spend his money a certain way, he has the freedom to do so. HR sometimes gets in the way with wacky policies, but I think hooper has it right. Kiffin had very likely had authorization from Hamilton for a certain figure in the total pool, pegged to the UT football budget and pegged to SEC peers.

If he performs, then he and his staff may well move up the relative SEC pay scale. Until then, he and his staff will be behind Saban, Meyer, etc.

We speculating about how something went down, it has to pass the smell test and this GA criticism doesn’t.

by memphispete on Jun 22, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

On a completely unrelated but hopefully humorous note

On the Comedy Central, Ron White talks about Jeff Foxworthy’s dog who “cleans up after himself” when he visits the yard after a long summer day in the house.

(It’s the ultimate in recycling but I can’t find the YouTube clip, for obvious reasons.)

Let’s give the GA bloggers some credit. It’s been a long summer for them and there’s not nearly as much excitement in Athens as there is in Knoxville, right now. Perhaps these GA bloggers just had a really long summer day in the house when they created this fanciful conversation between Kiffin and Hamilton. Give them a chance to recant, at best.

Failing that, we should give them the opportunity to clean up after themselves, if you know what I mean.

(By only alluding to this, I hopefully have kept it clean enough not to be banned. Please don’t spoil the fun and take us into the gutter.)

by memphispete on Jun 22, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Humorous

Is the perfect word for that ^ Pete. Funny stuff

Tennessee WILL beat Georgia on the way to 9+ wins in '09!!!

by VolBrian on Jun 22, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get it

His argument is ridiculous. He applies his own judgement to what went down in a meeting that NOBODY but Kiffin and Hamilton really knows the answer to, but the evidence refuting his argument is everywhere and very simple. Comparing the situation to Auburn’s hiring of Chizik is disingenuous as well. Sure, Auburn got Troop, but we have a former SEC head coach and the nation’s best recruiter, the most successful defensive coordinator in the modern era of the NFL, as well as Gran and Thompson, two outstanding recruiters and Gran’s success with Cadillac and Ronnie Brown is well documented.

My point is, there is no other possible way this went down. I defy anyone to show CONCRETE evidence otherwise rather than pure specualtion and conjecture. Hamilton has his choice of any number of people he could’ve chased down for the job, but, in hindsight, it was obviously Kiffin from the start based on what else, and who else, he could bring to the table with a little cash spread around.

His attempt at calming with massess with a promised “mea culpa” is also disingenuous given the fact that Kiffin will certainly get a raise with any success and will certainly keep said raise given the fact that some of these highly paid assistants (Monte and Orgeron) are not likely to bee at Tennessee longer than 3-4 years. Monte will retire at some point, and unless Orgeron is happy as defense coordinator/recruiting god/associate head coach, he will move on as well.

I hope some of that makes sense, but it sure makes a lot more sense than his argument.

Tennessee WILL beat Georgia on the way to 9+ wins in '09!!!

by VolBrian on Jun 22, 2009 10:10 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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