Eric Berry vs. Taylor Mays: who's better?
by Joel Hollingsworth on Aug 4, 2009 7:30 AM EDT
in Tennessee Volunteer Football
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Some 15 months and 60,000+ views ago, I posted a YouTube of Eric Berry's freshman highlights. That and the Tebow Tebow Tebow Berry Berry Berry video are the two-most heavily commented videos I've ever posted. I don't recommend reading comments left by YouTube viewers without first wrapping your head in gingko biloba leaves, but I do take a glance as YouTube helpfully auto-delivers them to my inbox. From these periodic brushes with illucidity, I have stumbled upon an irrefutable truth: the best defensive back in college football today is, according to the masses, . . . well, it's either Tennessee's Eric Berry or Southern Cal's Taylor Mays, depending on whose talking.
But which one of the two is better, if you shed your colors to do the comparing? Let's look at the respective career stats of these guys:
|
GP
|
Int. Ret.
|
Tackles
|
PD
|
FF
|
|||||||
|
No
|
Yds
|
TD
|
Ast
|
Solo
|
Asst
Loss |
Solo
Loss |
Loss
Yds |
||||
| Berry |
26
|
12
|
487
|
3
|
57
|
101
|
1
|
10
|
24
|
10
|
1
|
| Mays |
39
|
4
|
40
|
0
|
68
|
112
|
2
|
1
|
7
|
18
|
1
|
Despite Mays's advantage of an extra season, Berry's got three times as many interceptions, more than ten times the return yards, and three more touchdowns. Mays does have a slight lead over Berry in tackles, but Berry leads comfortably in tackles-per-game, and even without accounting for Mays' extra season, Berry has ten solo tackles for loss to Mays's mere one.
And we haven't even considered Berry's other numbers:
|
Rushing
|
Receiving
|
Fum. Ret.
|
Kickoff
Ret. |
Pts
|
||||||||||
|
No.
|
Gain
|
Loss
|
Net
|
TDs
|
No
|
Yds
|
TD
|
No
|
Yds
|
TD
|
No
|
Yds
|
TD
|
|
|
7
|
44
|
7
|
37
|
0
|
1
|
3
|
0
|
2
|
55
|
0
|
2
|
32
|
0
|
18
|
Mr. Mays's offensive numbers, fumble returns, and kickoff return yards? Zero, zero, and zero.
But what about the video? Is there something more impressive about watching Mays than watching Berry?
Battle of the Big Hits
Round 1
Let's give that one to Berry, shall we? Round 2.
And another one for Berry.
Round 3 -- Illegal (and Perhaps Illegal) Hits:
Hmm. Let's give that one to Mays for taking out two guys at once. But Berry's wasn't really a penalty, either, so you know.
Battle of the Non-Hit Highlights
And another point for Berry. Honestly, I like Taylor Mays. He's confident and mature, and he looks like a scary good defensive back.
But he's no Eric Berry.
30 comments
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Taylor Mays is a physical freak with his size and speed but at the end of the day the best safety in America is number 14.
PS: I still don’t know who Malcom Jenkins is.
"The man who complains about the way the ball bounces is likely to be the one who dropped it."
by Getoffmyvols on Aug 4, 2009 9:04 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
not fair (even if i'm looking thru orange tinted man-crush hearts)
T. Mays is a great db and deserves plenty of credit to his talent, but his hits still had opposing players falling forward. when CRUNCH hits, the other player STOPS (or spins 360s back the way they came).
it just isn’t fair to put Mays up to #14 in orange & white (& possibly black).
Eric "Capt. CRUNCH" Berry for Heisman!
by thetennesseethumper on Aug 4, 2009 9:18 AM EDT reply actions
One thing about Mays vs Berry
Berry gets his work done without using that “USC/Polamalu Forearm.”
The Fulmerizer will not allow me to describe my feelings on the use of that forearm.
Official MCM Hater!
Retire #9!
I called out
The Mays hit on the Penn State WR on a USC board as dirty…i actually called him a punk…not so much for knocking the ever loving crap out of the WR…but for not helping his own player up off the ground after leveling him….i quickly was banned..
These safeties need to be given harsher penalties for leading with the head. Possibly being suspended for a game. a 15 yarder isn’t going to do anything. Almost all those highlight hits were illegal, helmet to helmet collisions….even the one on Knowshon…fyi..that loud “CLACK” sound you hear…is Berry’s helmet hitting Noshow’s…it was probably the best hit of the season…but still could have drawn a flag…
Berry is no doubt the best safety in the NCAA…Mays isn’t far behind though…
Quick question…Is UT really pushing the Heisman talk for Berry or is that just an internet thing?
Scoring against Alabama will be like birthing a child: rare, painful, and messy
They really are.
And to your point about the helmet contact, the NCAA has instituted a conference review system for plays like the one from the Rose Bowl. Whether or not a penalty is called on the field, the Conference may go back after the fact and impose penalties on players(i.e. game(s) suspension) for targeting an opposing player above the shoulders or a defenseless player (receiver).
Official MCM Hater!
Retire #9!
Here is the exact rule:
Rule 9-5-6:
SECTION 6. Flagrant Personal Fouls
Player Ejection
ARTICLE 1. When a player is disqualified from the game due to a flagrant
personal foul, that team’s conference shall automatically initiate a video
review for possible additional sanctions prior to the next scheduled game.
Initiating Contact/Targeting an Opponent
ARTICLE 2. When there is a foul called for initiating contact/targeting
an opponent (Rule 9-1-3) that does not result in a player disqualification,
there shall automatically be a video review by the conference for possible
additional sanctions prior to the next scheduled game.
Foul Not Called
ARTICLE 3. If subsequent review of a game by a conference reveals
plays involving flagrant personal fouls that game officials did not call, the
conference may impose sanctions prior to the next scheduled game.
Official MCM Hater!
Retire #9!
Regarding the Moreno hit:
The camera angle muddies up the picture somewhat, but any helmet contact was the result of both Berry and Moreno lowering themselves. Berry hit Moreno shoulder-first, but Moreno had leaned into the hit in anticipation, so any helmet-to-helmet contact was a result of the actions of both players. Because Berry led with his shoulder, there was no fault in the sense of the rules. That’s why there was neither a flag nor any action when the conference undoubtedly reviewed the play.
The Donovan hit is different and I won’t argue any interpretation on it. The Maze hit was another shoulder-led hit.
Incidental helmet-to-helmet is allowed if it’s not the initial point of contact and it’s not egregious. The latter part of that can be a little squirrely, but the intent of the tackling player and the actions of the tacklee come into play on that.
by David Hooper on Aug 4, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
You are right on the Moreno hit
And the NCAA is making an effort to remove the “helmet-to-helmet” designation from the rulebook. If you read thru it, you don’t see it anywhere. It is being replaced with “intentionally contacting a player above the shoulders,” which, as you stated, officials must take into account the actions of the tacklee. If he lowers his head, and the tackler lowers his head, you gots nuthin’.
Official MCM Hater!
Retire #9!
I don't see how it is even a contest
He has an extra season on Berry and his stats aren’t even as good. Mays fanatics say he is better, but he just doesn’t have the hands Berry does. They say he bats more down. Well if you turned 8 of Berry’s interceptions into defelctions, then they would be tied in that category AND he would still have just as many interceptions, but probably with more return yards. This means that even being an ENTIRE season behind he has broken up just as many passes (only he gets the ball for us when he does it).
The other argument people make for Mays is that QB’s are afraid to pass near Mays now so he can’t build up the stats that Berry does. This is just a joke. So QB’s aren’t afraid to pass near Berry? That makes sense. Berry is the real deal and I don’t see how anyone (besides a USC homer) could honestly say that Mays is the better safety.
Living in Alabama is like living 50 years in the past, they are still just as racist, just as educated, the state constitution forbids any kind of public transportation, and all they can talk about is Bear Bryant
to be fair why don't we subtract Mays' last season and see what his stats look like then
I am willing to bet a ton that Bery blows him out of the water in every single category
Living in Alabama is like living 50 years in the past, they are still just as racist, just as educated, the state constitution forbids any kind of public transportation, and all they can talk about is Bear Bryant
Different results from different defensive approaches?
What I’ve seen of Eric Berry – highlights, really – makes me think that he’s on the “freak of nature” end of the scale, and an absolutely incredible safety.
I can’t say that QBs don’t throw at Mays and do throw towards Berry, but I wonder if the speed of the defense matters – My (no doubt unreliable) memory is that last season, our D-line and linebackers were getting to QBs pretty quickly so they were making shorter passes or trying to emphasize running plays – and Mays was being brought forward to act as another linebacker when running plays were working – e.g. the Stanford game wherein that change essentially killed Stanford’s second half offensive stats.
Are Berry’s stats better? Plainly. But I’m pretty pleased that Mays plays for SC. He fits well in the scheme. I’d just prefer that he find a way to tackle lower to reduce the risk of helmet-to-helmet penalties.
I can't think of any fanbase in the country that wouldn't like watching Mays play for their team.
It’s an argument of luxury, no doubt – kinda like whether a Rolls Royce or a Bentley is a better ride when you want to go get groceries.
When the draft rolls around, we’re going to get this comparison all over again, ad nauseam. And people will inevitably declare the first one drafted the ‘better’ one, without asking which one would be the better fit for that particular team. Berry’s a better cover safety and can stay out on the field in nickel packages – a huge advantage if you play the Colts or the Patriots. Mays, with his extra pounds, could come into the box and be a bigger player in a run defense (like playing Minnesota). It’s all going to depend on needs, and safeties are rarely taken high. I wouldn’t be surprised if both went in the top 10, but this is about the only year I’d ever say that.
I would like to have Mays next to Berry
With a little less of that dirty-arse forearm.
Official MCM Hater!
Retire #9!
Obviously, I think Berry is the best . . .
. . . Football player in the NCAA right now. I do. Am I biased? Undoubtedly. My issue with these debates is that the fans of the guy Berry is compared to almost always take the “Berry’s stats don’t matter much because it’s defense and you can’t gauge how well a player plays on defense by stats!” argument. So, pretty much, they say don’t look at the stats at all when comparing players? Isn’t that why we have stats??
Here’s the biggest reason I place Berry as better than Mays: No other Defensive Back I’ve ever seen has a knack for changing games. Berry just has that ability to make the play that turns momentum around. In the Swamp his freshman year it was 13-28 Florida, with Florida driving, and Berry’s INT return really swung momentum around. Foster’s fumble a few series later swung it all the way back, but still …
South Carolina, game was scoreless, but Berry’s fumble return changed all that reaaally quickly. Last year Mississippi State, Vanderbilt, Georgia .. Eric Berry has his hands in everything good that happens for us, it seems. People say Berry doesn’t play great coverage .. I have no idea where they get that ..
I see Mays as a combo between a Safety and a Middle Linebacker. He lowers his shoulder (and helmet) and delivers a great hit, but Berry is a combination of Safety, Cornerback, Outside Linebacker, Middle Linebacker, and Running Back. He’s got such a ridiculously good skill package … I wish I had Berry’s package. (I’m sorry for that, I had to do it.)
"No other Defensive Back I’ve ever seen has a knack for changing games"
That’s funny. Haven’t we seen that same description about a defensive back that stole that stupid trophy?
Official MCM Hater!
Retire #9!
I'll be honest
Charles Woodson was a really good defensive back. He certainly deserved to be called the best cornerback of the year, best defensive player of the year. Best player of the year? I have plenty of reason to doubt that.
Pointless comparison
Different players on different defenses, on teams that were going in different directions last year.
I don’t spend much if any time looking at the accomplishments of players on other teams so I will admit that I am not that familiar with Berry’s accomplishments.
Don’t think that teams won’t line up for Mays at the draft. He has so much ability and potential…and he is coachable which means he could really take off in the NFL.
Hard to make plays when the opposing team does everything it can NOT to throw it your way…
Mays didn’t have to make plays like others players did because the USC front 7 pretty much dominated the other teams offense and they didn’t want to take the chance. As fast a s SC’s front 7 was last year it made it difficult for opposing QB’s to get set to attempt a long throw.
Mays has also played a position that leads to less plays than the other safety position. That should change this year if he plays the other spot.
Mays could have sat back there sipping Mai Tai’s and still been just as effective because of the overall performance of USC’s defense. Mays got "burned" once that I saw and that was against ucla on a gimmick junk play…notice ucla didn’t score again!
More important is the intimidation factor. Go back and read Bruce Feldman’s piece on Mays and Ellison in ESPN The Mag last season…nobody wanted to take the chance of going up against them. And Mays has been that good since his sophomore year.
Aw, come on.
How can anything that so many people obsess over be pointless. I mean, can you possibly think of any other example of a bunch of people bickering so fervently about so many irrelevant things?
I don't get it
Are you saying that Congress just does a lot of stuff that doesn’t relate to the government?
But seriously,
Mays is basically an undersized linebacker in the safety slot. Call it a 4-4-3 defense if you will. It’s very effective, partly because USC has so much depth of talent that they can afford to lose some of the coverage skills in the deep secondaries.
And you won’t find anybody who will contend that Mays isn’t a great player. Again, it’s not a matter of one being overrated or anything. Like I mentioned earlier, it wouldn’t be a surprise to see them both go in the top 10, depending on which teams are drafting in those positions.
Berry has given hits just as hard as what Mays has given. I’d be a little more leery of asking him to do it all the time because he’s a smaller player, but he’s dropped them just the same. (Well, no. Like gramsey712 has noted, he doesn’t do it with the helmet-forearm COMBO score that Mays does.)
Mays has the advantage in his linebacker-ness. If I was picking for the draft and had two lockdown corners, such that a run-stopping and interior coverage safety were needed, I’d probably go with Mays. When facing teams like Minnesota, that’s a huge plus.
Berry’s advantage is that he fills more roles. In particular, he’s a safety who can play nickel coverage very, very well. The corkscrew hit on Maze was exactly that; he was lined up on the slot and when the slot receiver tried to block him, he spun around the guy and caught the crossing receiver off-guard. He has an extremely quick change of direction, which is a part of the reason he has so many interception return yards. YouTuberate some of his INTs and you’ll see what I mean.
So Mays provides more heavy and Berry provides more versatility. Take your pick, but it’s more of a needs choice than anything else. And either option is a nice option to take.
berry just finished his sophomore year.....
Living in Alabama is like living 50 years in the past, they are still just as racist, just as educated, the state constitution forbids any kind of public transportation, and all they can talk about is Bear Bryant
Hard to make plays when the opposing team does everything it can NOT to throw it your way…
Which is why I’m even more impressed for Berry than Mays, when he makes a play. Make no mistake: teams don’t want to throw towards Berry, and said other teams’ quarterbacks generally have more time to get rid of the ball than team’s facing USC’s really, really, really good front 7.
And, like hooper says, Berry is a more versatile player, in this man’s opinion, which is a much, much more rare feat than having a really hard-hitting safety. Mays is very, very good and teams would love to take him, but I’ve never seen a combination of speed, strength, agility, and awareness in a player like I have in Eric Berry. He played QB in highschool and was a cornerback prospect for recruits.
8...9...10 And the winner is BERRY!
Who wants to go against hooper and bobo?
Do so at your own peril. Kinda of like throwing in Berry’s general direction…
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