Ed Orgeron admits calling Tennessee recruits and enrollees
No sooner had Lane Kiffin told the media assembled at the press conference announcing him as Southern Cal's new coach how good it was to be home than the media -- one characterized by UCLA Bruins fans as radically pro-USC, for whatever it's worth -- turned on Kiffin and held his feet to the fire, asking him follow up after follow up to the question of whether Ed Orgeron had attempted to empty the cupboard at Tennessee before running out the door.
His initial response:
I don't know that that's accurate.... I don't believe that has happened. I've told Mike Hamilton I will not recruit the players that go there unless they call me.
"Unless they call me" is the ultimate out, of course, because you know they will. But it turns out that calling recruits during a dead period is actually permissible as long as you only call them once. And there's no real prohibition -- other than that of ethics, integrity, and good taste, of course -- against talking to the commitments of the school you just left.
Regardless, a few minutes later, the media beat Orgeron into submission and got him to concede that he had in fact made some calls:
Yes, I did call recruits to clear up any questions they had. In my knowledge, I followed the rules correctly.
Forget for a moment the question of whether an outgoing coach should recruit the players he'd been recruiting for his former employer to his new school. Like it or not, that's permitted, and because it's permitted, many, if not most, probably do it. The key question on that is why employment contracts don't prohibit such behavior, but that's a question for another day.
But definitely not cool -- and against the rules to boot -- is calling players enrolled at your current school to recruit them to your new school. According to GVX:
NCAA spokeswoman Stacey Osburn said rules stipulate that "An institution cannot contact a student-athlete enrolled at another institution without permission from the current school. A currently enrolled student-athlete who transfers must sit out a year before becoming eligible to compete. An enrolled student-athlete is one who is officially registered and enrolled in a minimum, full-time program of studies in any quarter or semester of an academic year, as certified by the registrar or admissions office, provided the student was present at the institution on the opening day of classes."
You see, Orgeron did that, too. Oh, he hasn't yet admitted it, saying he "[wasn't] going to get into it." Oh, yes you are, Coach, because we have evidence.
Again, according to GVX, Jeff Bray said his son, Tyler Bray, was in a room Tuesday when Orgeron offered USC scholarships to a group of players enrolled at Tennessee via speaker phone. Apparently, a bunch of the players responded to Orgeron with anger. Good for them.
What will happen? Who knows? There seem to be other, more pressing NCAA issues at Southern Cal, issues that have been cooking for years but for some reason refuse to come to a boil, so chances are the NCAA will do nothing about this. But it is becoming increasingly clear that Lane Kiffin and Ed Orgeron have done the impossible and further sullied their respective reputations.
Southern Cal's athletic director, by the way, "[doesn't] even want to get into it", "it" being Orgeron's calls to UT enrollees.
Too late, Mr. Garrett. Too late.
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Comments
Is it not true that Kiffin
had, to some degree, a hand in the USC issues that are going on? At best it I’d imagine he was aware the ship wasn’t being steered properly; at worst, he knew exactly what was going on.
Good for them. Good for UT. Leave that scum to the Pac-10, and hope you guys can move on from that. I can’t believe the way some of these coaches acted and treated the players. It’s like Franchione all over again, but at least his staff stayed around and tried to help the players instead of abandoning them like Kiffin’s did. I hate that for the kids.
You play fast, you play strong, you go out there and dominate the guy you play against, and make his ass quit! That's our trademark, that's our MO as a team, aight, that's what people know us as! - Nick Saban, 2008
To be fair to Kiffin's staff, only Kiffin's dad and Orgeron left.
The ones still here at least deserve that much credit. But your point is well understood.
did Lance Thompson leave with Kffin?
Land Kiffin took the meaning of "Volunteer" WAY too seriously....
Oh ok.
There was a rumor at one point that Lance was trying to get back to Bama, but I thought that didn’t sound right. At least you guys have that going for you.
Anyway, best of luck in this off season.
You play fast, you play strong, you go out there and dominate the guy you play against, and make his ass quit! That's our trademark, that's our MO as a team, aight, that's what people know us as! - Nick Saban, 2008
by BamaReturns07 on Jan 14, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
He has a large buyout on his contract.
So Bama would have to pony up for him.
Maybe if I get some time later, I will post a fanpost with all the coaches’ statuses. It’s on govolsxtra today.
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Kiffin's exchange with TJ Simers concerning the above was an instant classic
It reminded me of Bill Clinton trying to explain what sex is. Hilarious.
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I was wondering . . .
if any of the SoCal media would really go after him over this. I was hoping for a Billy Madison type of confrontation where some guy from the L.A. Times knocks on principal Lane’s door and says “The players say you did. You say the opposite. Which of you is lying?” Good for those guys for telling him to take a hike.
Bottom line, y’all are going to find somebody better for the Tennessee program than Kiffin. I hate that, because I’m selfish, but I’d be willing to bet on it. Not a cheese bet of course, but some other kind of bet.
On the subject of stealing recruits from a school you just left
Remember when Kiffin hired Lance Thompson from Alabama. Publicly he stated that he wasn’t going to attempt to poach and of the committed players he had recruited to Alabama, but word eventually got around that he was talking to them and trying to get them to switch to UT.
It’s interesting to look back at some comments made regarding LT coming to UT
This is B.I.G.
I love that we have now pissed off USC, UGA and the Tide. Hopefully he will bring a few of his Tide commits to KTown to look around. I’m on the Lane Train fo sho.
by gramsey712 on Jan 15, 2009 2:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’ll give you that Kiffin and Coach O are taking this sleaziness to the next level by going after the entire class and in such horrible fashion, but in principle it’s the same thing that you were encouraging a year ago.
The moves were important because they showed that Kiffin was bringing NFL style gamesmanship to the SEC—turn every coach into a potential turncoat, every recruiter into a mercenary going after the best paycheck. In the process steal the best talent from your opponents.
Now Lance Thompson, Rivals’ recruiter of the year in 2008 after he landed 6 four star commitments and 2 five stars (including Julio Jones) for Alabama, is headed to Tennessee. Barely three weeks from signing day. Why is this important? Thompson already has three five-star commits this year and is working hard on two others.
-Clay Travis
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
Valid point.
But that’s part of the reason that this group o’ swindlers have always made me feel just a tiny bit uneasy, even as much as I have personally loved having Ed Orgeron’s Louisiana accent on campus. Kiffin’s always made me nervous. I fell for Orgeron hook, line and sinker, which meant I totally gave him the benefit of the doubt.
I wonder how clearly we should have seen this coming. This feels like a bad teenage break up to me— all of a sudden those cute little “quirks” our boyfriend had aren’t so adorable anymore.
I still stand by my comment.
Not sure I would do it again. But I liked the Kiffin hire.
And you continue to show why you are so liked around here.
The question here is whether Orgeron was actually calling recruits on a UT issued phone while he was still being paid by UT. And the telling them to not go to class issue. That is the kicker. But you missing the point is nothing new around here.
Obviously these guys are gonna try to steal the recruits once they resign and everything is done. That is to be expected.
What is also expected is that you will continue to be a freakin’ loser douche who I will continue to deride. And it is really hard to put into words my true feelings for you with the Fulmerizer lurking.
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Not so sure, gramsey.
Really, when it comes down to it, shady is shady, after all. Whether the rules are getting exploited or just bent out of shape a little isn’t really the issue. The motivation is the same as far as I’m concerned.
After all, we hired a couple guys willing to do literally whatever it takes to get the job done. That was part of Kiffin and Orgeron’s charm. Then, when we’re on the losing end of that amoral drive, we can see it a little better.
The fact of the matter is that these men haven’t changed. This jerk didn’t turn from a kitten to a weasel overnight. If they were willing to call UT students and recruit last week, I’m willing to bet they’d have done it for us.
I don't think it is the same at all.
As a matter of fact, if Willis is going to go to UNC and Ambles is going to follow Kiffin to USC, then I don’t want them anyway. I will not be upset at Kiffin if he starts recruiting these guys now. Just now Orgeron recruiting them before the team even knows they are leaving.
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I'm just sayin'.
It’s an issue of intentionality for me, gramsey. (look it up— it’s a philosopical debate.) This Lane Kiffin and Ed Orgeron breaking the rules to allegedly recruit on our dime are the same Kiffin and Orgeron they were when we hired them. Becoming Trojans didn’t suddenly make them willing to violate rules. (It only made them prophylactics.)
If they’d have stayed here long enough, and given the opportunity, I bet they’d have cheated this badly eventually on the Volunteers’ behalf. Six secondary violations in one season speaks for itself. We just didn’t want to see the signs.
I saw the signs
And they were the same signs you see at Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, USC, and countless other schools.
I knew he (they) was a piece of garbage. But that is the going rate to win in 2010.
Name me the last coach with integrity that won the National Championship, and I will name all the issues his program has with the NCAA. Save Mack Brown….I don’t know any dirt on him.
This isn’t 1965. You are not gonna win without bending the rules a little. So what do you want? 7-5 with a “clean program” or being National Champions with a little dirt on your record?
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If you're really fine with "whatever it takes," gramsey...
I knew he (they) was a piece of garbage. But that is the going rate to win in 2010.
Then I guess I don’t really have any reason to fault you, and go in peace. If you’re fine with a piece of garbage because you want to win, I’m okay with that, too.
I’m just not going to listen anymore when you complain that your piece of garbage tastes funny or makes your stomach turn.
Me? I’m afraid it made me throw up a little in my mouth to know I’d been spoon-fed garbage all year because I wanted to win. Not to play well, or to the best of our abilities, but just to win. Whatever it takes. And I liked it.
TTFN
I didn't want to fight with you
But the bammer idiot was not even close in comparing what Orgeron did—telling recruits to not go to class and what Lance Thompson did—recruiting guys to Tennessee that he had recruited to Alabama. And he called me out personally when he did it. That is what fired me up, and you appeared to be agreeing with him.
We’re on the same team here.
And to be clear, the only complaints I have are Orgeron recruiting kids to USC before even telling the team they were leaving, and him telling kids to not go to class. Everything else is fair game.
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Although that begs the question...
Did Kiffin try to recruit any Oakland Raiders for the UT Volunteer squad? ;)
I have a hard time believing that you wouldn’t respond similarly if Kiffin and Co. tried to gut the recruiting class that you paid them to build for you “the right way”.
Not going to respond to the personal insults.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
The point isn't that he is recruiting Tennessee commitments, thats to be expected
The point is that he was telling the ones that were already on campus that they shouldn’t go to class so they’d be somehow eligible to bolt for LA with them.
by Getoffmyvols on Jan 14, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Not illegal
As I said in the post, talking to recruits you recruited to one school on behalf of your new school is probably going to happen. It’s permitted by the rules.
Calling enrollees of the school you’re leaving on behalf of your new school, that’s against the rules.
And word to all rival fans here: please stop poking our Tennessee commenters. We like them and want them to stick around. You’ll need to dial back the criticism at a time like this at this place because we’re all hypersensitive because of what’s happened. Recognize that and act accordingly. I won’t let this place devolve into a haven for name-calling, and provoking someone into it is not acceptable, either.
Please. The place is more interesting with opposing viewpoints, but opposing fans are guests here, and they have the primary burden of civility.
Rocky Top Talk
by Joel on Jan 14, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I wanted to apologize
Didn’t mean to step on any toes.
by Bobby Briggs on Jan 14, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
What did you think was gonna happen?
If we came to RBR and made probation jokes, you would just say “National Champions” and laugh about it.
You poke at us now, you are not gonna be received too kindly.
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I've apologized and let it go
But I guess I’ll poke the bear again and point out, its not the “bammer” fans using words like douche, idiot ,and mouthbreather here.
by Bobby Briggs on Jan 14, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
And those are not even the worst words I think of
When I think “Alabama fan.”
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fair enough. Like I said
Kiffin and Coach O are taking this sleaziness to the next level by going after the entire class and in such horrible fashion
What will be hilarious is if this ends up magnifying the NCAA sanctions coming to USC. That will really endear Kiffin to the trojans. First day on the job and they screw things up.
Sorry if my comments caused people to lose their cool, but I thought it was a relevant point to the situation, and I didn’t use any insults, taunts, or any stuff like that. I wasn’t intending to get personal. I’m not going to take offense to any inflammatory statements sent my way, because as you say these are hypersensitive times.
Finally, you guys are right that the LT thing I brought up isn’t exactly the same as what happened recently, but it was still a sleazy thing in the eyes of A LOT of people (not just bama fans), and the larger point that I was making was that some people were not just accepting this behavior, but reveling in it. See the Clay Travis quote. What he is saying is that for Kiffin, having your staff poach recruits from former employers isn’t just a neccessary evil, but a strategy and a tool to be actively exploited.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
Stupid Coach O
Well I hope the idiot was dumb enough to have made those calls on a university cell phone. They are the owners and can get the recordings of the conversation from the provider. That would be a nice gift wrapped present for the NCAA. I wonder how they would describe how they would not do anything to USC with being handed evidence like that and still doing NOTHING!! man the NCAA sucks. Maybe someone can come up with a break off league that actually means something and has a football playoff and really has the kids’ BEST intrest in mind
This guys sounds like a real douche
I still say you all are better off without Kiffin though.
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...

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