Former Vol Brent Vinson charged in connection with May, 2009 murder
by Joel Hollingsworth on Feb 10, 2010 6:31 PM EST
in Tennessee Volunteer Football
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Brent Vinson, who left Tennessee back in the middle of the 2009 season and had transferred to North Alabama, is currently facing charges in connection with a fatal shooting in Knoxville last May. Charles Corn was shot several times and died a few days later. Vinson was originally "interviewed" by police (while basketball player Ramar Smith was "questioned") but was thought at the time not to be a suspect. Nor is he a suspect in the actual shooting now, according to WBIR. Instead, the charges relate to some sort of evidence tampering. Either way, it's still more bad news for Vinson, the RTT#3 in the Class of 2007 who had originally re-routed to Hargrave Military and reported that he was a changed man before following friend Duke Crews to Tennessee. He's now behind bars in Lauderdale County, Alabama and will soon be extradited to Tennessee to face the charges. Note that Vinson and Smith and Crews were all long gone for various reasons before their eligibility expired. The father in me feels compelled to say something about the company you keep.
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It'll be interesting to see if they and others react differently
now that Kiffin is gone
by Will Shelton on Feb 10, 2010 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
It will be interesting
It’s hard to see how something can be a black eye for the program if he’d been kicked off the team before any of it surfaced, but under Kiffin or Fulmer it’d be spun that way. We’ll see about Dooley. He’s a good man, but I always expect the worst with the media. If Oregon hadn’t picked up Ontarrio Smith, they’d still be calling him a black eye for the program.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 10, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
It shouldn't be hard to see how it's a "black eye"
The guy was brought here for football. Kicking him off the team doesn’t change the fact that he wouldn’t be here in the first place if our football coach hadn’t brought him here.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
So do you consider Ontario Smith a black eye for the school?
It just seems like when a school kicks somebody out, it’s hard for their actions to represent the school anymore. Their actions represent what the school deems bad enough for dismissal.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 11, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
It may be semantics...
Obviously once the guy is kicked out of school, the school can’t be held responsible for what he does or where he goes afterward. But I don’t think it’s quite so black and white. Do I think it was a black eye for the school when Onterrio Smith got in trouble? First of all, which time? But seriously, I think once he went on to play for Oregon, the perception (nationwide) became that he was an Oregon player, so no, it wasn’t quite the black eye for us that it could have been. Obviously, Vinson didn’t go on to play for another school so the Smith-Vinson analogy doesn’t really work here.
But when you look at the bigger picture of Vol athletes getting in trouble (particularly during the Fulmer regime,) I think the Onterrio Smith saga is another arrow in the quiver of those who say that we were recruiting troublemakers and turning a blind eye to character issues as long as they were good at football.
It is easy for us as Vol fans to say, “Well, Derek Dooley is our coach now, so the Vinson situation doesn’t apply to us,” which is true to a certain extent. Vinson was recruited by a guy that was two coaches ago, so this shouldn’t be considered a black eye for the current state of the program. But I think it is another example of the problems we were having with discipline and character a few years ago.
And I think any trouble that Ramar Smith (or Duke Crews or Josh Tabb) may get into is a black eye for Pearl too.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
We can't be held responsible for what grown men do while they are at school.
If the school is responsible, does that mean the family of the victim can sue the University for harboring Vinson until December?
I don’t want to start a fight, but your reaction doesn’t make sense. Did Fulmer just miss the section of Vinson’s recruiting profile that said he had a proclivity to covering up murders?
The only thing the University has a responsibility for after the fact is discipline. Dude was kicked off of the team. This is not news to me.
Official MCM Hater!
mARKEITH say GO TROGANS!
Responsibility?
Read the first sentence of my last comment again. I’m not sure who you’re arguing with here.
But if you don’t think having players and former players get arrested for violent crimes reflects poorly on our university and its athletics programs, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
As for Fulmer and Vinson, how many second chances did Fulmer (and then Kiffin) give Vinson? And are you saying it is purely a coincidence that programs like Tennessee a few years ago and Florida last year seem to rack up a lot of off-field brushes with the law?
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
I was not aware of any other "chances" that Vinson was given
So you might have a point there.
I guess I don’t understand what you are saying. Do you think that having a player get in trouble a “black-eye” for the University, or not?
I submit that they are not, no matter how heinous the crime, if it is a first time offense. You cannot hold the University responsible for the actions of one of their students.
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Vinson was suspended multiple times.
Failed multiple drug tests, had grade problems (after having to attend a prep school before coming here in the first place because he was academically ineligible.) He was dismissed from the team by Fulmer and allowed back on by Kiffin.
Take your pick.
And I don’t know how I can make it more clear that yes, I do consider it a black eye for the university when players and/or former players get arrested.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Jeez...I didn't know about all that with Vinson
I don’t know how I missed that.
I do not believe in second chances (much less third or fourth) when it comes to compensated athletes. So I agree that it makes UT look bad when a player is allowed to still participate, or worse, allowed back onto the team when they have done something like that.
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Vinson was never dismissed
He was suspended indefintely by Fulmer before he was fired. That usually meant, “you’re suspended until you pass a drug test” a la the recent incident with Cam Tatum, Melvin Goins, and Brian Williams.
He also was never an academic casualty. You may be suspended by the football coach for skipping a class, but the university will kick you out of school a la Demetrice Morley for total academic ineptitude.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
To-MAY-to, to-MAH-to...
Vinson, a 6’0", 201 pound cornerback from Hampton, Virginia, was suspended for the Vols season opener at UCLA in 2008 due to academic issues.
The Associated Press said Vinson was cited by police for possession of marijuana and a violation of the state’s open container law in November 2008, prompting a one-game suspension.
http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?S=11695251
Vinson’s character was called into question early in his Tennessee career. He admitted he failed a drug test when Phillip Fulmer still was coaching the Vols, and he spent time on academic probation.
http://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt_vinson_0113jan13,0,2895062.story
The sophomore’s status was in doubt, and media reports Wednesday night by WBIR and Volquest.com said Vinson had been dismissed from the team.
…
His suspension was apparently related to traffic stop that resulted in five citations from police.
http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2009/jan/08/vinson-working-through-academic-issues/
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Don't dismiss it because you called it the wrong thing.
Academic probation is faaaaaar different than dismissal.
The one-game suspension was likely for skipping a class or failing an exam/paper. Something I’m sure you never did…..
And I believe I covered weed use/possession and drinking below.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
If you recall...
It was reported that he was dismissed from the team. Only after they let him back on did UT “correct” those reports.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
So,
Can the pellet gun victims sue the University because Nu’Keese was enrolled at the time?
Is your conjecture supposed to lead us to believe that Fulmer and/or Kiffin would have given Vinson another chance after this latest revelation?
Are Jamal Lewis and Travis Henry plagues/black eyes upon the University of Tennessee? What about Tony Robinson and Chuck Webb?
If a published graduate student in any subject gets busted for weed are they a black eye upon the University?
You seem to have an attitude that Tennessee not only condones “deviant” behavior, but encourages it.
For every athelete that fails multiple drug tests and is kicked out of school, there are at least 2-3 that make good on the second chance and fulfill their eligibility without further legal issues and “fanfare”. You usually don’t hear about the first suspension unless it’s by a star player. Or one of 22 starters on a football team comprised of 85+ individuals.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
There is a big difference between legal liability and a "black eye" in public perception.
Can the pellet gun victims sue the University because Nu’Keese was enrolled at the time?
Obviously the school wouldn’t be legally liable to Nu’Keese’s victims unless it was somehow foreseeable by the school that he would do that. But not being legally culpable doesn’t mean that it it makes us look good when our current/former players get arrested.
Is your conjecture supposed to lead us to believe that Fulmer and/or Kiffin would have given Vinson another chance after this latest revelation?
What “conjecture” are you talking about?
Are Jamal Lewis and Travis Henry plagues/black eyes upon the University of Tennessee? What about Tony Robinson and Chuck Webb?
Yes, I consider the (alleged, in the case of Henry – has he been tried yet?) criminal activities of Travis Henry and Jamal Lewis (and Robinson, but I don’t remember Chuck Webb getting arrested) to reflect poorly on UT even if UT wasn’t responsible or legally culpable for such activities. It just doesn’t look good when your system turns out criminals.
You seem to have an attitude that Tennessee not only condones "deviant" behavior, but encourages it.
Not sure where I said that we encourage it, but it is hard to look at Brent Vinson’s experiences in Knoxville and not think that UT was condoning his behavior.
For every athelete that fails multiple drug tests and is kicked out of school, there are at least 2-3 that make good on the second chance and fulfill their eligibility without further legal issues and "fanfare". You usually don’t hear about the first suspension unless it’s by a star player. Or one of 22 starters on a football team comprised of 85+ individuals.
That is true, and good for those guys. I guess the question is whether it is worth it to deal with the bad apples like Vinson in order to give the other guys their second (or third or fourth) chances. I suspect Charles Corn’s family’s opinion on that would differ from yours.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
I guess it is semantics then
Because I would not consider something to be a “black eye” on someone if they have no control over said something.
Official MCM Hater!
mARKEITH say GO TROGANS!
And as far as "public perception"
Screw “public perception.”
The only people in the public who care are fans. And fans are either supporters or have an axe to grind. There are no impartials.
Official MCM Hater!
mARKEITH say GO TROGANS!
OK, again, agree to disagree
I care what others think about my school. I don’t care what Florida fans and Georgia fans think of it, but I don’t like for impartial people to pick up their newspaper and see that our players and/or former players are getting arrested. I don’t like that.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Ok
I’ll grant you some of those points, but come down off your high horse.
Failing a weed test is far different from this alleged charge of evidence tampering and we both know it, and we both know Vinson would have been gone with this arrest had he still been enrolled, which he was not.
As for Fulmer and Vinson, how many second chances did Fulmer (and then Kiffin) give Vinson?
By calling that conjecture, I really should have said, it’s not their decision as we all found out. The athletic department had a policy of multiple chances that was not created by Fulmer or Kiffin so blame cannot be laid upon them for allowing a second or third chance after a failed weed test.
Yes, I consider the (alleged, in the case of Henry – has he been tried yet?) criminal activities of Travis Henry
Out of curiosity, does that mean you don’t consider him a blight upon UT’s rep unless he is convicted? If so, then why the hate on Vinson? He hasn’t been convicted or tried. All he did was fail a couple of weed tests.
There is a reason I keep emphasizing weed here and it’s because it’s hypocritical of anyone to judge an athelete for weed use unless they have never used it or any illegal drug, and never drank underage in college. There are far more students at UT smoking weed than there are athletes, believe that.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
So now frowning upon UT players being arrested for violent crimes is a "high horse"?
LOL.
OK, I think we have moved past productive conversation. Have a good day and Go Big Orange.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
I was referring
to your apparent comparison of the recent charge to Vinson’s previous failed drug test trangressions.
That’s all.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
While I don't agree with everything VolBrian said up there
I do think there is a big difference between frowning on and holding it against the University.
I don’t like that Nu’Keese Richardson was arrested. But I don’t hold that against UT.
And about that weed….they know they aren’t supposed to do it. One chance is enough. I do believe that big time athletes at a big time school should be held to a higher standard. But that means less chances and greater punishment.
Official MCM Hater!
mARKEITH say GO TROGANS!
Tell you what
You want to cheer for a University that never has an athlete fail a drug test, drive drunk, or skip a class, go be a Vandy fan.
Your standards are out of line with what you should expect to find at every public university in this country.
And, to be completely honest, I don’t give two s***s what an alleged drug dealer’s family’s opinion is and how it might differ from mine about someone who is only “alleged” to have tampered with evidence. Don’t pick and choose your criminals if you are gonna trash one person just because he played football for Tennessee.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
And since I'm being honest
We’re only allowed two black-eyes at any one time. By process of severity elimination, Vinson doesn’t count. Nu’keese and Tyler Smith already put us on lock for this year.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
by VolBrian on Feb 11, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wish life were as black and white for me as it seems to be for you...
… I wish I could blindly support my favorite team and be assured that everything they did was right and everything our rivals did was wrong.
But unfortunately I just don’t see the world that way. Unfortunately it disappoints me when the athletes I cheer for are accused of breaking the law. It disappoints me even more when they are convicted for it. It doesn’t make me any less disappointed to think that “it goes on everywhere.”
But I respect you and your opinion and am happy to root for the Vols alongside you. I would hope that the fact that such things disappoint me doesn’t make me any less of a Vol fan than you.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Maybe
I didn’t make my point clear enough. In fact I know I didn’t.
My point is not that this stuff shouldn’t disappoint you, but maybe that we shouldn’t worry about public perception (black-eyes) so much because it just doesn’t really matter to everyone else.
For instance, during this discussion I asked another sports-savvy coworker the following question:
What is this first thing you think of when you think of the University of Baylor and their athletic programs?
Crappy football that has just started to improve?
Good women’s basketball?
You know what never crossed his mind?
One men’s basketball player kidnapping and murdering another.
The point is that the general public doesn’t remember this stuff like we do. Hell, I’d be willing to bet 95% of non-Tennessee SEC fans have no clue who Tony Robinson or Mondre Dickerson is. Don’t worry so much about what the public thinks.
Unless you do something so ridiculously insane like Najeh Davenport, it’s not going to be remembered 6 months from now.
My Vandy-fan line wasn’t cool and for that I’m sorry.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
I always say
If you are gonna get arrested…you might as well take a dump in somebody’s laundry basket!
Such good advice that Najeh Davenport took me up on it!
Official MCM Hater!
mARKEITH say GO TROGANS!
I am not sure he said it makes him happy when an athlete gets in trouble
He just doesn’t hold it against the University.
Official MCM Hater!
mARKEITH say GO TROGANS!
And I don't think it is a coincidence that Tennessee and Florida "seem" to rack up more
Because they don’t.
I think it is a coincidence (not really) that we only hear about the offenses committed at the big programs. Same situation as with Kiffin’s secondary violations. He did nothing worse than anyone else, by a long shot, but it was reported as if he were the worst violator in the nation.
Official MCM Hater!
mARKEITH say GO TROGANS!
o yes
It will be “another black eye for the Tennessee program”
It's simple Cubs in the spring and summer, Vols in the fall and winter.
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