Tennessee Football & Basketball Retired Number Criteria
With lots of talk over the last week about how to celebrate the greatest basketball team in school history, some fans and media members have suggested that Wayne Chism have his number retired and hung from the rafters at Thompson Boling-Arena. Chism certainly became the leader of a truly special team, and holds the record for most games and most wins in a Tennessee uniform. Both of those records could stand for a long time: Chism played from day one as a freshman, stayed for four years, and played on teams that won 31 and 28 games. It's a rare combination that we may not see again. And aside from that, everybody loves the headband.
But in examining the university's criteria for jersey retirement in basketball, we find that it's an extremely difficult feat to accomplish. The standards are so high, not only does Chism not qualify...but neither does Chris Lofton.
So we took a look at the football criteria as well...and found that it's even more demanding.
Is Tennessee's policy for jersey retirement too strict? We take a look at both sets of criteria for football and basketball, the players who currently qualify, and the players we feel like should get another look. Check out all the info after the jump, and then tell us...
Basketball Criteria
Tennessee had not retired any jerseys in men's basketball until Bruce Pearl came along. Pearl, along with Mike Hamilton, made a push to get Bernard King back involved with the program; King was happy to oblige, had his #53 jersey retired in 2007. His teammate Ernie Grunfeld became the second Vol to receive the honor, with his jersey going up in 2008 (incidentally, Steven Pearl was wearing and continues to wear #22, presumably until he graduates and the number is done for good).
The full release on the criteria for retiring a number can be found here, from the university's official site. To receive this honor, a player must achieve TWO of the following:
- First Team All-American
- SEC Player of the Year
- Played on an Olympic Basketball Team
- NBA All-Star
Basketball Retired Number Candidates
Two former Vols are eligible for jersey retirement under the current criteria:
- #14 Dale Ellis (1980-83): SEC POY 82/83, 1st Team AA 83, NBA All-Star 89
- #20 Allan Houston (1990-93): Olympics 00, NBA All-Star 00/01
Ellis was also a second team All-American in 1982; Houston had the misfortune of playing in the SEC at the same time as Shaquille O'Neal, so he never won player of the year, but was a third team All-American in 1992 and 1993. Houston is Tennessee's all-time leading scorer.
I don't think anyone would argue about either of these two guys going up in the rafters - both were in attendance at UT games this season, Houston seems to have reconnected with the university despite the fact that they fired his father, and quite frankly I'm surprised the Vols haven't already retired his number...but I have no doubts we'll see it soon.
The rules also state that five years must pass after a player's last game before their number can be retired. So Ellis and Houston could go up anytime. There are only two other Tennessee players who meet even one of the criteria:
- #35 Ron Slay (2000-03): SEC POY 03
- #5 Chris Lofton (2005-08): SEC POY 07
In addition to their SEC Player of the Year awards, both of these guys were All-Americans...but not first teamers. Slay was a third team selection his senior year in 2003, and Lofton has two second team and one third team selection on his resume. But the way the criteria stands now, assuming that neither is going to make an Olympic or NBA All-Star team, both would be out.
Look, I love Ron Slay. He came to UT as a student the same semester I did, I watched him all four years from the student section, and as such he'll always be my favorite player. But Slay's case is hurt by a knee injury that caused him to miss most of 2002, and the fact that the teams he played on - which produced two NCAA bids and another to the NIT in the three years he was healthy - have become much less celebrated in light of what Pearl has done. Ron Slay was a unique and talented individual...but does he deserve to have his jersey retired? Probably not.
But Chris Lofton? I'd put his jersey up there in a heartbeat.
Lofton is the second leading scorer in the history of the program, and the best three point shooter in the history of the SEC. His battle with cancer adds a unique quality to his already amazing career. And the fact remains that Lofton was the on-the-court face of the resurrection of Tennessee Basketball. It's not a stretch to suggest that, in the minds of the majority of current fans and perhaps even those who care to read about Tennessee Basketball on this site, Chris Lofton is the best player in the history of the program.
Under the current rules, Lofton's number can't be retired until 2013. So there's still time for those on the committee to tweak a policy that's only been in existence for three years to begin with. And I have faith that they'll do the right thing, and make an exception for #5.
But for the moment, understand that if we're talking about retiring Chism's number, a lot of things would have to change in the criteria, or a huge exception would have to be made. The stronger argument would be for Lofton, if the committee decided to shut him out as the rules currently dictate...we'll see what happens.
Football Criteria
If you thought the basketball policy was tough, check out the football qualifications:
THREE of the following...
- Inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame
- SEC Player of the Year
- First Team All-American
- Heisman Trophy winner
- Winner of either the Sullivan Award, Draddy Award, or SEC Athlete of the Year (all sports)
....AND, THREE of the following:
- Inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame
- NFL Offensive or Defensive MVP
- FIVE Pro Bowl selections
- Own a major single season or career statistical record
...holy cow, that's impossible.
Football Retired Number Candidates
Of course, it's not impossible if you're Peyton Manning or Reggie White, whose numbers were retired in 2005. But jersey retirement at Tennessee should be for the very best players in the history of Tennessee, not the very best players in the history of football.
It should be noted that the rules were bent slightly for Doug Atkins (who absolutely deserves to have his number retired); Atkins is a member of both the college and pro hall of fame, played in eight Pro Bowls and was a first team All-American at UT. The NFL Defensive MVP award wasn't created until 1971, two years after Atkins retired.
The Vols have also retired the jerseys of four players who were killed in action during World War II.
As the criteria currently stands, who else can get in?
The answer, currently, is no one.
Even our most celebrated collegiate players don't meet those standards: Eric Berry has first team All-American honors and was the SEC Defensive Player of the Year in 2008, but he'd have to wait for induction into the College Football Hall of Fame to fulfill the third part of the current college requirements, before we even begin to discuss him making five Pro Bowls or going to Canton.
The only player who comes close to the NFL requirements is Jamal Lewis, who won an Offensive MVP award in 2003, and set the single game rushing record (295 yards) in the same year, when he also came within 39 yards of getting Eric Dickerson's record for most yards in a season. Adrian Peterson broke his single game record in 2007 by one yard, but I'd hope UT's committee would allow some breathing room if it came to that. But Lewis hasn't been to five Pro Bowls...and is Jamal Lewis an NFL Hall of Famer?
Even if he was, he meets none of the collegiate requirements. And I'm not saying Jamal should have his number retired...I'm just pointing out that as the criteria currently stands, the doors are locked and no one else is getting in. You'd need a combination of Eric Berry's sensational college career and Jamal Lewis' sensational pro career just to come close, and would still need the committee to bend the current rules to get in.
Outside of those two, are there others who deserve the honor? Al Wilson was a first team All-American and played in five Pro Bowls, and could get a pass for being the leader of the National Championship team. Many will instantly go to the Vols' Heisman silver medalists: Hank Lauricella, Johnny Majors, and Heath Shuler. Lauricella was an All-American and is in the college hall of fame, but didn't make it in pro football. Shuler, of course, didn't either; he did a lot of incredible things here, but like Ron Slay, his career was instantly overshadowed because of what came directly after it: four years of Peyton Manning, followed by a National Championship.
But Johnny Majors, like Chris Lofton, deserves to have the rules bent to accomodate him.
Majors has the college requirements: he won two SEC MVPs, was an All-American, should've won the Heisman Trophy, and is in the College Football Hall of Fame. But as he also never played in the NFL, he meets none of those criteria.
Numbers were originally retired in 2005, when Phillip Fulmer was still running the show and tensions were much higher between he and Majors. But being that Johnny excelled as a player and a coach in Knoxville and has done so much for this program, he should be the next one to have his number on display at Neyland Stadium.
The policies for both football and basketball reiterate that having a number retired is the highest honor the university can bestow. And I agree. I don't think we should just do it for everybody, and have a dozen retired numbers in every sport.
But my hope is that the criteria function as guidelines and not hard and fast rules. Dale Ellis and Allan Houston can go up anytime. And I think Chris Lofton and Johnny Majors deserve to join them.
As for the best basketball team in school history? Well, even if we can't retire Wayne's jersey (and if we don't want to hang his headband from the rafters next to Slay's)...at the very least, I'd wager Bruce Pearl is going to get a street named after him sooner than later.
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The difference
Retiring jerseys and retiring numbers are two separate things here, right? If we’re talking about retiring numbers, I have no problem with super-strict uber-pantheon criteria. That’s what is should be. We’ve only got so many numbers…
by Grubby stadiumdrives.com on Apr 2, 2010 10:09 AM EDT reply actions
The university treats it as retired numbers
the four football WWII numbers haven’t been worn in decades, and the numbers for Manning, White, and Atkins haven’t been worn since 2005. Same in basketball, though that’s currently just two numbers.
It does raise a question if there could be a separate “circle of honor” or whatever to have jerseys, but not numbers, retired.
by Will Shelton on Apr 2, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
The headband...
has to be honored in some way.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I voted just right
There’s something that just seems wrong about not retiring Chism’s and especially Lofton’s numbers. As much as I’d want to do it now (and the day after Lofton was gone), it’s probably a good thing to have the waiting period. Also, you make a really good point about the fact that it’s supposed to honor the best Tennessee players of all time and not necessarily the best players of all time.
by Joel Hollingsworth on Apr 2, 2010 10:27 AM EDT reply actions
I also voted "just right"
And not just because I like Goldielocks. No, I feel jersey retirement needs to be uber selective, if only for a logistical stand point. Otherwise, 100 years hence, we’d have a whole basketball team wearing the number “0” (with all apologies to Swipaboy). As for the football requirement, we need to replace that “wins the Heisman trophy” qualifier with something else, seeing as ESPN will never allow a Tennessee player to win the Heisman.
In Chism’s and Lofton’s respective cases, I think we need to take a step back and recognize that at this very moment we might want to retire their numbers for personal reasons above on-the-court accomplishments. I am not saying that their accomplishments as individual players were not great—they were—but I think they mean more to us fans because of the unprecedented heights the program achieved while they were here. Some would argue that because of those team accomplishments, we should reward Chism and Lofton, but I would not make that argument.
However, I think we can all agree that these players should not end up in the raptors.
So Sayth King Zach I
There has to be some more generous interpretation on an individual basis.
Other than you have to win such and such award or have so many yards/points/picks/tackles.
There needs to be a committee that studies the college career only and what it means/meant to Tennessee. Everyone knows Johnny Majors meant a lot to Tennessee and deserves it. Same with Lauricella, Cafego, etc.
Chris Lofton may probably means more to Tennessee athletics than Peyton Manning and deserves to be honored so. Who cares if he never plays in the NBA? That’s not what this is about. Why does the pro career matter one bit? We’re not a pro franchise, we don’t have pro fans, and after-college athletic success or failure means very little to Tennessee.
Take a step back and think of your favorite professional football team or basketball team. Now, think of the star players or past star players who played for that franchise and did not attend Tennessee. Do you have any freaking clue if the college they played at retired their number??
I just asked the biggest Titans fan I know if Alcorn State retired Steve McNair’s number and he has absolutely no clue……..
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Great points
You’re right that they don’t leave themselves a lot of wiggle-room with individual awards. Lofton is what? Third all-time in NCAA 3 point shots made? You could make a pretty legitimate argument that his numbers would have been more outstanding had he not been fighting cancer his senior year. However, I don’t think Lofton means more to UT than Manning, that’s a stretch.
So Sayth King Zach I
by kingofzachland on Apr 2, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
No athlete has ever meant more to UT than Manning.
And unless Tennessee has an athlete come along that plays the most popular and important position in sports, and does it better than Manning, it will stay that way.
Official MCM Hater!
Fire Jeff Fisher.
Not too much of one
Years from now, Manning will be remembered as the greatest professional QB of his time and possibly all-time. He’ll also be remembered as another in a long line of great football players from Tennessee.
Chris Lofton is going to be remembered as the face of Tennessee’s new-found success in basketball. Especially if it continues.
In my opinion, retiring somebody’s number for Tennessee should have absolutely nothing to do with anything other than what they accomplished and meant to the Univeristy of Tennessee. It doesn’t matter if he’s the greatest QB of all-time in the NFL or never plays a down. If the pro career matters so much, let the Colts retire his number.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
im sorry
but using professional outcomes to judge a college career is one of the dumbest things i have ever heard. that’s truly outrageous and UT should rework that immediately.
what if we get an uber recruit in the next few years who goes one and done and bolts for the NBA after losing in the S16 or E8, where has eventually makes an All Star team and an Olympic team, like a Kevin Durant type. such a guy’s contribution at Tennessee would pale in comparison to Lofton’s or Chism’s. they need to use thing’s like historic School/SEC/NCAA statistical marks instead. im really shocked that they could be so wrong about this.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
TRUTH
but using professional outcomes to judge a college career is one of the dumbest things i have ever heard. that’s truly outrageous and UT should rework that immediately.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
i mean really
the discussion about chism should begin and end with: “winningest basketball vol ever.” what else is there to discuss? he had the largest role in the largest success this program has ever experienced. conversation over, put the jersey up there.
there also has to be a character aspect to it too. just like you can’t overlook the contribution of the 4 WWII vets, you also can’t just overlook the intensely personal struggle of playing through cancer and chemo. sometimes life sabotages sport, and when athletes are able to overcome those sorts of obstacles and still show their excellence, that deserves the highest recognition.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
Yep
Chism’s and Lofton’s should both go up with Houston’s and Slay’s the first big home game next season. No doubt
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
What if we have a player win 4 Heisman Trophies
And then his leg gets ripped off in the bowl game his senior year and never plays another down?
I bet they break their criteria for that one.
Official MCM Hater!
Fire Jeff Fisher.
Excellent points...
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Following up:
Other SEC retired football numbers:
Alabama: none, because they think they’re above it
Arkansas: Steve Little, Clyde Scott (both #12), Brandon Burlsworth (the guy who tripped Clint Stoerner, who died in a car accident two weeks after the NFL Draft)
Auburn: Pat Sullivan, Terry Beasley (QB & WR played together), Bo Jackson
Florida: Steve Spurrier, Scot Brantley (both numbers re-issued by Spurrier as head coach, tradition discontinued until Tebow wills it)
Georgia: Frank Sinkwich, Charley Trippi, Theron Sapp (all played in 40s/50s), Herschel Walker
LSU: Billy Cannon, Tommy Casanova
Kentucky: retires jerseys, not numbers – has retired 45 jerseys…in football.
Ole Miss: Archie Manning, Chucky Mullins
Mississippi State: none that I can find
South Carolina: George Rogers, Sterling Sharpe, Steve Wadiak, Mike Johnson (Ballcoach wants to unretire these numbers, promised Sharpe’s number to Alshon Jeffery but Sharpe said no)
Vanderbilt: none that I can find
This may anger some people
But, I’m even against the numbers of the players who died in WWII being retired. There should ABSOULTELY be some sort of monument in their memory in Neyland somewhere, but that’s how strongly I feel about how this whole thing should be about what a player accomplished while at Tennessee or means to a given Tennessee athletic program.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
SEC retired basketball numbers
Auburn: Charles Barkley, Chuck & Wesley Person, John Mengett, Rex Frederick
Florida: Neal Walk
Kentucky: retires jerseys, not numbers
LSU: Bob Pettit, Pistol Pete, Shaq
Ole Miss: Anthony Boone
Mississippi State: Bailey Howell
South Carolina: Grady Wallace, John Roche, Kevin Joyce, Alex English, BJ McKie
Vanderbilt: Clyde Lee, Perry Wallace (first black basketball player in the SEC)
and, for the record...
the Lady Vols have retired five numbers: Holly Warlick, Bridgette Gordon, Daedra Charles, Chamique Holdsclaw, and Tamika Catchings. I’m sure Candace Parker isn’t far behind
When they retire Pat Summitt's "number", is it just going to be her glaring at the court?
Because that would be intimidating as hell.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Apr 2, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be intimidating to both teams
The average score in TBA would be something like 16-13.
So Sayth King Zach I
by kingofzachland on Apr 2, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
But the rebounding would be world-class.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Apr 3, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that it should be extremely hard to have one’s number retired, but any requirements that do not allow Chris Loften in should be tweaked. Wheezy is much more difficult, but I don’t think that he should make it. But what if he had been named the Final Four Most Valuable Player? By the standards that still wouldn’t be enough, but I would think that everyone here would say he should be retired if that happened.
i think
there is a different in having extraordinary high requirements, and having extraordinarily rigid and narrow requirements. right now tennessee’s policy is way to much the latter.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
My proposal (for basketball, at least)
Let college career be the decider. I do have no problem with having a pro honor take the place of a college honor (for instance, if you’re an NBA all-star, we can forgive you for not being a 1st team All-American), but pro honors shouldn’t be required.
I think Wayne is my favorite UT player, but I’m not convinced about retiring his jersey. Lofton, however, absolutely deserves it. Also, there should absolutely be some sort of team criteria. If you’re the leader of a team that does great things, you should get some credit. And there should be a way of getting around the Shaq problem. I propose something like this (taking b-ball as an example):
Accomplish TWO of the following:
*1st team All-American OR multiple 2nd/3rd team All-American multiple times
*SEC Player of the Year OR multiple 1st team All-SEC selections
*Captain or MVP of a team that makes the Final Four
*NBA All-star OR played on an Olympic team
Under this proposal, greatness still gets you points even if you’re playing at the same time as an even greater player (The Shaq Rule), but you need multiple All-SEC or All-American selections to replace an SEC PoY or 1st team All-American. Also, non-college accomplishments represent only one of four possibilities. This is fair, because accomplishments while in college should account for the bulk of the criteria for getting a college jersey retired.
Will, since you’re the man with the research, this criteria wouldn’t be light enough to overcrowd the jersey retirement, would it? We don’t have any Final Four guys (yet), and I can’t think of a whole ton of players who had multiple AAs and multiple 1st team All-SEC selections.
by Incipient_Senescence on Apr 2, 2010 12:42 PM EDT reply actions
The multiple first team All-SEC selections
would open the door for eight players who played between 1941 and 1980 (full bios on all of UT’s All-Americans here) The All-American and All-SEC squads used to be easier to make than they are today, less competition.
But I like the train of thought. The basketball rules I’m much more okay with than the football rules, though I do think some measure needs to be given for a guy who doesn’t have any NBA success. Lofton is the only one I’d bend the rules for, and that could be done by adding a “holds a major SEC statistical record” to the group, or adding “three-time All-American” to the list.
by Will Shelton on Apr 2, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, so it's a problem for pre-1980 folks
But it seems like a good criteria for post-1980 folks. Wayne and Slay don’t pass muster, but Lofton does. This seems quite stringent enough to me. I wonder if you could make this the criteria but still leave out the eight older players who played in a less competitive time. I also think something like this could work for football. Also, for football, major positional awards should absolutely be included. Berry gets no points for the Thorpe? C’mon!
by Incipient_Senescence on Apr 2, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Would we think as much of Lofton if Peterson had been his coach for 4 years
And the team never made it out of the first round of the tournament?
Official MCM Hater!
Fire Jeff Fisher.
That was sort of my point earlier
My natural inclination would be to say “no.” However, it’s not unusual for outstanding players to shine even more on sub-par teams, so it might be a wash. Ron Slay is the perfect example of this. Do you think he really would have led the SEC in scoring had he been on a more complete team? (Say, if he had played a few years later with Lofton, and Smith?) Maybe, but probably not.
So Sayth King Zach I
by kingofzachland on Apr 2, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't this a version of the Allan Houston argument?
He never played in the NCAA Tournament, and only made two NITs. Everything is relative; Houston was and is the leading scorer in school history, but I wonder if he’s thought of with such high regard if he doesn’t have a solid NBA career.
by Will Shelton on Apr 2, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
we need a point sheet
with tons of different benchmarks including less glamorous things like number of starts, years as captain, being top 3 in school history in a major stat, total wins, championships etc. and then have some required point total, which would still be tough to hit, but would draw from a lot more areas of accomplishment. for these sports, half of the requirements have nothing to do with the university of tennessee. unbelievable. it’s ok to measure those things, but there should certainly be more benchmarks to hit on the college side of things than the pro side.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
Something like the Hall of Fame Monitor (per Bill James).
Not a bad idea, really. Devil’s in the details, but I like this.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Apr 2, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I generally agree with the standards
Especially for basketball. I have zero problem with those requirements. Football might be tad bit strict in the number of pro accomplishments you have to have, but isn’t the outrage most people are claiming.
Retiring jerseys has to be for the best of the best of the best. And as such, professional career informs that. If somebody didn’t even have a professional career, or had a subpar one, then they’re probably not the transcendent player everyone thought they were, and therefore probably shouldn’t have their jersey retired.
I would say that maybe an exception could be made that if you make the College Football Hall of Fame, you automatically are eligible, but we currently have 20 players and coaches in the College Football Hall of Fame. And they haven’t even started inducting people from our 90s run yet. That is just way too many to retire all their numbers. Getting your number retired in a program such as ours should require a nearly superhuman effort.
In fact, I feel that a Ring of Honor either instead of or in addition to the number retiring is actually the way to go, and have making the College Football Hall of Fame be the lone criteria for that. If we continue to retire numbers, though, the sheer logistics of how big a football team is, if nothing else, requires that it be almost impossible to accomplish.
Also, on the topic of basketball, while those requirements can be and are less than the football requirements, retiring one’s number should be special enough where you don’t just automatically retire the number of the best player from each generation, which is pretty much what we’re talking about with Slay, Lofton and Chism. And having your number retired should have nothing to do with how the team did while you were there. It is solely an individual honor. And taking that into account, Wayne Chism absolutely should not have his number retired. That’s gonna sound like a slight of Wayne, and I don’t mean it that way. It’s just that his numbers do not stack up.
Slay is closer, but still kind of falls short. Lofton is the closest, but will people at other SEC schools still be talking about Lofton 20-30 years from now like they are King, Grunfeld and Houston? I’m not so sure about that. You could argue that he would’ve made first-team All-American had he not gotten cancer. And I suppose that’s something worth looking at, although we really have no way of knowing what would’ve happened.
And again, if neither he nor Slay can even make the NBA, maybe they aren’t the transcendent-level players we think they are.
I do think anyone who meets the criteria should have their number retired right away. So Dale Ellis and Allan Houston should both have their numbers retired next year, and I’m really not sure why they haven’t been sooner. If Houston was still mad at us, at least Ellis’ could’ve been retired in the interim.
Retiring Ron Slay's jersey...
…is a terrible idea. Go find a college basketball fan who isn’t a UT fan and tell him that UT is retiring Ron Slay’s jersey. Then come back and tell us how long he laughed at you.
...just apologize for not thanking me.
I also agree with the general point...
…made by an above commenter that the policy is too rigid, but not too strict. It should remain very strict but not determined by bright-line rules.
...just apologize for not thanking me.
Too rigid is probably a better way of putting it
but I’d love for us to tweak it some now, instead of making individual tweaks every time there’s unanimous approval for someone who doesn’t meet all the criteria, like Lofton.
I agree
Instead of having to make numerous exceptions to stupid rules that produce ridiculous outcomes, just make less ridiculous — but equally stringent — requirements.
I think Lofton’s number should be retired. I don’t think Chism’s number should be retired…and I love me some Chism.
...just apologize for not thanking me.
Call me an oddity, but...
I think number ‘retirement’ is lame in and of itself. There’s no reason for it in either the amateur or professional levels. So what if a player has an exceptional career? An outstanding achivement…of course! A reason to never wear a given number at a particular institution again…dumb.
Where’s the voting button for this perspective? Better yet, I’d even advocate un-retiring numbers. I’m all for watching a #16 in orange & white take the field again…offensive or defensive side of the ball. The number does not define a player…the player does.
[holds up shield as the inbound spears fly!]

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Nicely done
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
I see this argument
If you take the numbers out of the equation, you could probably fit more names around Neyland.
Seriously, honor the player for their college performance and let the number stay in play.
Unless
You’re the Yankees. The whole thing the Yankees have with monument park really, really cool imo, but then again, I am a Yankees fan.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
As a Celtics fan
I enjoy the challenge of players trying to find jersey numbers that aren’t currently in the rafters. I also enjoyed Kevin McHale’s take on them retiring too many numbers: “If they put Danny Ainge up there, I want mine to come down.”
Maybe something like the Hall of Fame Pyramid Bill Simmons uses in his Book of Basketball – that we have some Level One guys like Peyton Manning that are untouchable, but we also have the Wayne Chisms and Al Wilsons of the world that deserve some level of recognition, even if it’s not the same as what Peyton gets.
What about the Captain's Headband?
Just have it signify who’s the team captain if you don’t want to retire it.
Or maybe the headband can hang next to Summitt’s eyes.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Apr 3, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I assume that the author Will, is Will West....
Because he was going on about this on the radio today. The only problem is that with Chris Lofton he is wrong. Chris’ number will be retired as soon as he makes the 5 year required wait. He was SEC POY and he WAS a 1st team all-American. It is even in the media guide, I actually checked, which apparently Will did not. Lofton made the Wooden all-American team, and it doesn’t designate 1st, 2nd, etc. So anyone that makes it is considered 1st team.
did some checking of my own
I see this is not Will West from the Sports 180 show on the Sports Animal. He must have just picked this up and ran with it today. Either way, it is still wrong about Chris Lofton’s status.
I (Will Shelton) was on their radio show Friday
though he may have talked about it before that. The Wooden Award All-American team is interesting, because it’s ten guys and in Lofton’s bio and on the website’s list of first team All-Americans, Lofton isn’t listed as a first team All-American. But you’re right, Lofton’s name is included later in the media guide on a list of first team all-americans based on the Wooden team. Interesting…and if that gives him clearance, then it works for me.
On another note: what about the idea of Limited Numbers?
Those would be numbers that, well, only the best players would get to wear. Maybe limit it to upperclassmen only or some such, but on some level, wouldn’t it be cool to see #4 and #5 get passed down for the next 10-20 years on the court? Similarly, the football team could do something with RB / WR / OL / DL / LB / CB/S as well.
Basically, the idea is that certain numbers are iconic, they’re not retired, and they’re not given away because someone “might earn it” – although you’d also have to be okay with mid-season jersey changes in some cases. It would have to be managed carefully, but I have to think it could be a fantastic tool. Think about it; wouldn’t it be a little bit chill-inducing to see Hopson come down onto the court from the crowd for the Kentucky game next year wearing #4? Wouldn’t you know he’s arrived?
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
At this point
Based off his recent performance, I’m not sure Hopson deserves his own number.
Not that I’m not pulling for him, but he’s got to get his game back together.
I see your argument though. I think we’re all in agreement that Tennessee could handle all this a little better.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
He was just an example.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Apr 3, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Talk to the guys at Boise State
I believe they do something like that for football. Sounds good to me though.
by Incipient_Senescence on Apr 3, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Great Idea
Traditions have to start somewhere, right?
So Sayth King Zach I
by kingofzachland on Apr 3, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
doesn't football do that
I thought the football team was already selective of who they give single digit numbers to. Them letting Branden Warren wear #1 was a big deal if I remember correctly.
That was a Kiffin thing more than anything else.....
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
my impression
I don’t really have a problem with the basketball requirements. even as strict as they are, there are currenlty 5 players that qualify for retirement. That is not too bad considering UT has never been a national basketball power. However, the football requirements almost reek of a conspiracy to keep Johnny Major’s number from being retired. The man was the greatest UT football player for a generation and he cannot have his number retired because of his lack of a pro-football career. Based on these criteria Tim Teebo would probably never have his number retired at Florida and that is just ridiculous. The basketball requirements seem strict, the football ones are simply unfair to a great college player. I would be curious how many Heisman Trophy winners at other schools would not meet UT’s requirement to retire a number. I would guess it would be a fairly large number.
Heisman winners who don't meet the requirements
Each of the last 11 winners.
Danny Wuerffel
Eddie George
Rashaan Salaam
Charlie Ward
Gino Torretta
Desmond Howard
Ty Detmer
That takes us back twenty years. In the last twenty years, only two Heisman winners (Ricky Williams and Voldemort) meet the professional requirements.
by Incipient_Senescence on Apr 3, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Voldemort:
refers to Charles Woodson as “He Who Won’t Be Named.”
So Sayth King Zach I
by kingofzachland on Apr 3, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Leaving out the last 11 winners
Eddie George, Charlie Ward, and Ty Detmer have all had their numbers retired. Florida, as mentioned, stopped retiring numbers after Spurrier came back as head coach. Gino Torretta is in Miami’s “Ring of Honor”, as The U does not retire numbers. And Michigan hasn’t retired any numbers in the modern era (though Gerald Ford has one). Rashaan Salaam is the only guy on the list who hasn’t received the school’s top honor.
Not that a player from our fine university is ever going to win one…but if you win the Heisman, I think you deserve extra consideration.
By the way
Welcome, zansdad. I’ve seen you posting below various UT articles at CBS, but I myself haven’t wanted to deal with some of the idiocy that you must put up with to post there. I don’t know how long you’ve been following this community, but I think you’ll find it an enjoyable place for discussion.
by Incipient_Senescence on Apr 3, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Every now and then
you get a rabid buckeye fan, but by in large this SB Nation is pretty fantastic and even civil.
So Sayth King Zach I
by kingofzachland on Apr 3, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually clicked the link this time
I really did. I opened Malwarebytes, updated it, took a swig of beer, and clicked the link for the cheap Ed Hardy and Uggz. My CPU didn’t melt, but that site is G-H-E-T-T-O, or should I say Memphis….
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Thanks for the welcome
I have mostly quit posting on CBS. I finally had to give up trying to have reasonable discussions. I was impressed that this article managed to have over 20 posts and still didn’t degenerate into some type of grade school name calling contest so I thought I would try things over here for a bit.
One of the beauties of SB Nation: we don't sell things.
Well, we have the customary ads that pay the bills and all, but our websites aren’t intended to sell newspapers or put eyeballs on TV shows. Because of that, we have a lot more liberty to moderate if we have to.
Fortunately we rarely have to do much moderation. With the exception of some sweet deals on Ugg boots, we almost never have to deal with trolls or mouth-breathers. Once our community achieved a smart and civil atmosphere, it basically sustained itself. So while we can wield the ban hammer more readily than most traditional media sites, it’s really having courteous, respectful members that has made the difference.
And the live comment updating makes it more of a conversation than a comment thread – especially during games. It’s a shame we’re done with basketball season; once football season gets going, be sure to check out a game thread and see the difference.
by David Hooper on Apr 6, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions

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