On Soccer, Tennis, and American Interest
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 7:09 AM EDT
in Rocky Top Talking Points
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I've always had a fascination with sports on the 'smaller stage' and their hopes to become more widely accepted in this country. It first really materialized back in the 90s when baseball had the McGwire/Sosa home run race. In those first few years after the '90s strike, baseball was down in a big way; football was the clear king of sports, basketball had not yet needed to address its 'ghetto' image of the time, and hockey was at its highest level of acceptance in history.
I didn't realize it at the time, but that was the moment where this little fascination was born: immediately after McGwire broke Maris's home run record, one of the sports networks (ESPN most likely, but I forget which) had a microphone in the face of some really old baseball high-up who was singing the praises of the sport and declaring it to be "right back on top" - even above football. (I remember the exact phrasing to this day.) My reaction was: how am I supposed to believe that baseball is "on top" if it takes a 90-year old to say it?
It was one of those times that I was right and the elder statesman was not. Sure, baseball enjoyed a surge. The problem was that the other three sports were all firing up at roughly that same time. By December, nothing of that season was remembered except for the home run race, and the fixation on home runs grew to the point of obsession within MLB for several years.
But the main point of all this is that it takes a lot of time and patience to build increased support for a sport, even for a traditional giant like baseball. The NFL got to the top the slow, steady way - by retooling its product to be more television- and family-friendly and taking advantage of opportunities like the NFL-AFL merger. There was no 'magic moment' in football where the sport was suddenly engraved on hearts across the country. Those moments were merely small etchings that, over time, accumulated to create a football culture.
Soccer and tennis face the same challenge today, even after Wednesday's tremendous events.
Right now, there are plenty of Youtuberies available showing people celebrating in sports bars and in the streets following Landon Donovan's fantastic goal in stoppage time. If Wednesday's snapshot of American interest in soccer were to be considered an indicator, then soccer would have to be seen as one of the top three sports in the country. It's not. Yet.
The emotional rush comes from two levels. First, there are the 'actual' soccer fans who would be following the World Cup even if the U.S. had not qualified. Second are the 'American' fans; many may have a passing interest in the sport, but are really rooting for the team because of national interest rather than love of the game. I would wager that we're seeing most of the emotion coming from the latter group, as it is much larger than the former. But the number of actual fans in this country are far greater than 10 years ago, thanks to the U.S. women's team.
At one point, soccer became trendy on television because the women's national team was the best in the world. Players like Mia Hamm and Brandi Chastain were advertised like crazy while the team was rolling over everybody else. (Anything you can do, I can do better...) At that moment, soccer had two elements in this country that it had never enjoyed before: international success and highly marketable personalities. (Some would point to Pele and the Cosmos as the genesis of modern interest, but Pele was never relatable as 'American' and that popularity waned as soon as Pele's stint was over.) The women's team made themselves visible and (equally importantly) made themselves sustainable. Their success carried over several years, allowing people to become acclimated to cheering for them. It wasn't much, but it was a start.
And slowly from there, the sport found opportunities to grow. The men's team slowly became more competitive in international play. Pro soccer began to be sustainable via the MLS. Rules limiting the number of international players in MLS created a balance between bringing in the world's best (well, as good as we could entice) and keeping domestic names and faces in the game.
That brings us to today. Soccer has spent nearly two decades building the foundation for national fan support, and that work is the reason that many people were willing to watch the game today. (If that exact game had happened 12 years ago, it would have been a 1-minute byline story on SportsCenter.) It's not just the avid fan that made Wednesday's game a big deal, it was the number of people who finally felt comfortable openly cheering for American soccer without worrying about being labeled a Eurotrash futbol fan.
Soccer has done a brilliant job of marketing itself this time around. Have you noticed that references to the "beautiful game" are far fewer than in previous World Cups? Or that there isn't this insistence on calling it football and not calling it soccer? Or, most importantly, that nobody's telling the non-fans that "you just don't understand"? The real beauty of soccer is that it's such a simple game rather than a complex one. (American football is what happens when soccer gets complex.) Like any quality simple game, the strategy can get surprisingly deep, but the underlying concepts are easily grasped by very new observers: kick ball in net, don't use hands, play as a team, and don't fight. That lack of pretense made soccer much easier for non-fans to accept because it felt honest.
Watching France implode didn't hurt either.
Contrast that to tennis. Today we'll watch the conclusion of the most epic tennis match in history. (I say that confidently, even while it's not finished, because the Isner-Mahut game is so far beyond normalcy that it cannot help but be legendary.) In all honesty, this match is far more pivotal than the US soccer game; the World Cup match was a great game that fell our way, but this tennis match just doesn't happen. But even if Isner wins, tennis will see no increase in interest after a couple of weeks.
After the glory years of McEnroe/Connor and the resurgent years of Agassi/Sampras, tennis - much like soccer - became perceived as a sport for 'other' countries. Unlike soccer, however, tennis did not look for ways to increase American interest in the domestic product. Tennis's popularity in the early 2000s actually hinged on the Eastern European supermodel players; while they made for great eye candy, it just didn't make tennis feel any more accessible. And the Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday game can't change that on its own.
That's not to say that tennis is unpopular in this country or that tennis could become the top sport in the nation. Far from it on both counts, actually. Tennis has simply not taken the time to build the foundation for growth like soccer has. If tennis were to start today, they might see gains in 6-10 years. Until then, tennis will roll steadily along and simply maintain.
But hey, not everything has to be long-term. Isner is in the best tennis match ever played. Even if nobody will suddenly become a tennis fan after this match, there's no reason to not enjoy it for the moment.
Especially if he beats the French.
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Another point towards the rise of soccer:
It’s so much easier now to follow the high-level European club game. That’s how I got into the sport – and having seen it played at that level, you get a feel of what the sport is capable of. You don’t get that with MLS, which is a third-tier league internationally. (The name international players they do get are mostly over-the-hill.)
Since it’s easier to follow the best leagues now compared to how it was, that makes becoming a fan of the sport so much easier. I wouldn’t follow MLS if it wasn’t our top domestic league; the quality of play just isn’t visually appealing – fortunately, MLS has started to recognize this and adjusted their marketing as a result.
As for tennis, I suspect its problems are tied in part to the serve just dominating the game. This match is a spectacle for me, but it’s not something I’d watch. It’s more a curiosity.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Jun 24, 2010 7:35 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Women's tennis is more enjoyable as a sport than men's tennis.
And I mean that without any consideration to the visual appeal. Their volleys are longer and the serve doesn’t completely dominate the action.
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Jun 24, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
"Their volleys are longer"?
With due respect, Mr. Hooper, I feel as if you aren’t a tennis player.
...just apologize for not thanking me.
Oh, I'm not.
What I meant was that you see fewer aces. I guess it’s not so much that the volleys are longer as that the odds of a returnable serve are higher.
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
What I think you are messing up...
…is the definition of the word “volley”.
I think “rally” is the word you’re looking for. A volley is a shot that is hit before the ball bounces. When a player is at the net, he is hitting volleys.
...just apologize for not thanking me.
I would disagree with this
I don’t have any beef with women’s tennis. I like it and I’ll watch it (I especially liked it back in the Anna K days). Your point about the length of the individual points is valid at Wimbledon…the ball skids on grass courts and thus doesn’t bounce very high. It makes for a very fast game that favors the heavy hitters. I don’t like Wimbledon tennis as much as clay court or hard court tennis for this very reason. So I do see your point. I just think that grass is the only surface where there is an appreciable difference between the amount of shots per point on the men’s vs. women’s side of things.
I’ve played a lot of tennis in my day, and I like the men’s game because I just have an appreciation for how good those guys really are*. This is the same argument a lot of people make in regards to men’s vs. women’s basketball, and I know you are a big fan of women’s basketball, so I hope this isn’t an argument that annoys you. But, from my perspective, it makes it a better product. The speed at which Rafa Nadal, for example, is able to cover the court to get to what would appear to be a sure winner…and then not just get to it but make an offensive play with the ball…to me that’s worth the price of admission.
I do see your point as it relates to Wimbledon, though. It makes for a different brand of tennis that I don’t find quite as viewer friendly.
( * ) If you get a chance, there is a brilliant essay by the late David Foster Wallace called “String Theory” that nicely illustrates the different sort of “levels” there are in tennis. You could just google “David Foster Wallace String Theory” and it’ll come up. The subject of the essay, Michael Joyce, was a former middling pro who is now Maria Sharapova’s coach (or traveling hitting partner or something…not sure exactly). I’d recommend it.
...just apologize for not thanking me.
Completely agree on this
Watching an EPL game is what drew me to the sport. Comparing MLS to the EPL is completely preposterous – for thos Americans who say, “I don’t like soccer – I’ve been to an MLS match and I was bored”, they clearly don’t want to like soccer.
I was having a chat with one of my English friends who just happened to be across the pond the day Barcelona and the Galaxy played at the Rose Bowl. In talking to him, he said “Yeah, me and Cormac were just discussing where we think the Galaxy would play if they played over in England. We decided they’d be a Division III team.”
I am also continuously amazed at the number of people in America who feel it is a point of pride to make everyone know mow much they hate soccer. I think watching golf on television is just about the dumbest thing ever, but you don’t see me interrupting conversations about the Masters with “GEEZ, GOLF IS SOOO BORING. I HATE IT.”
Incidentally, the same people complaining about the ‘pace’ of soccer often are the same people who watch golf. That’s a level of cognitive dissonance I don’t even want to attempt to understand.
by CAJason80 on Jun 24, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
The same people complaining about the ‘pace’ of soccer often are the same people who watch golf.
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro" - UAS guys, thank you for your service....
by memphispete on Jun 24, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I've heard MLS teams are approximately equivalent to a Championship side.
I’m not sure about that one way or the other, but I’d bet that’s true on the top end of MLS at least.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Jun 25, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, you're probably right
Most of the better teams in the MLS are roughly equivalent to a Championship side, insofar as they would be competitive at that level. That said, all MLS teams still lack the mid-field handling and ball distribution skills that are much more developed – even at the Championship level – in England.
Watching an MLS game is much more tattered and uneven in flow than watching a similar Championship game as a result of this. I think that’s why a lot of Brits tend to think the quality is much lower. And clearly my friends were being a little facetious, since Level Three doesn’t really exist. ;)
I've said it before and I'll say it again
I know how to fix soccer and hockey and turn them into this country’s biggest sports aside from football:
Make the soccer net the same size as the hockey goal and remove goalies from both sports. Now you’ve got scores of 55-52 and Americans love that stuff. And, yes, I"m ethnocentric enough to say that the sports should change for us. ;-)
I was getting highly agitated yesterday during that game because I just knew that this was gonna be the second and only US World Cup game I had watched in full and it too was gonna end in a 0-0 tie like the one in 2002 or so. Until that aspect of things is removed, soccer is gonna have trouble reaching a lot of people. I was excited by the ending though and that erased all concerns over 0-0 stuff momentarily.
I know soccer is the “World’s” game and all that stuff and we can’t to change the rules for us and all, but the article is about what it would take to make the sport popular in the US.
Tennis….well, y’all remember the trouble I had during the National Championship trying to figure out who’s winning. It’s very hard to watch and enjoy a sport if you need a calculator and/or a rulebook just to figure out the score everytime you turn it on….
/my 2 cents
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
It’s very hard to watch and enjoy a sport if you need a calculator and/or a rulebook …
Like I’ve never been accused of that with football. ;-)
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I wanted to bring up curling so badly.
It’s another sport in exactly that same boat of trying to build popularity despite being ‘foreign’. But I was good.
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
It was really cool during the winter Olympics
but I can’t imagine a kid in rural Alabama aspiring to be a world class curler of anything besides Miller product in 16 oz cans.
USA hasn't had a 0-0 draw in the modern era
2002:
USA 3:2 Portugal
USA 1:1 South Korea
USA 1:3 Poland
2nd round: USA Mexico, DOS A CERO!
3rd round: USA 0: 1 Germany. Torsten Frings, I will hate you forever for getting away with that handball on the line.
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 24, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
May have been a quliafying match then.
I remember it because I stayed up until 3 am to watch it.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Well, the 1-1 tie with SK and the 2-0 win over Mexico were both 2 am kickoffs
Not sure what else it would be though. . .
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 24, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't the Germany game like a 5 AM kickoff?
I remember trying to get into soccer then, but 20 year old Will wasn’t getting up that early for anything
by Will Shelton on Jun 24, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The rise of DVR (TiVo, whatever they call it where you are) will help the time difference as well
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro" - Thank you for your service....
It was 7 AM, iirc
Portugal was 5 AM. They were early favorites to win the whole thing, and we jumped on them 3-0 in the first half in the World Cup opener. Wild.
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 24, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It was the 1-1 tie. You're right
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Soccer will be large in the USA within a generation (20 years). Here's why.
When I was a kid, soccer was definitely not cool. Football was king and basketball was a close second. Soccer players, on the other hand, were routinely beaten up and lumped into the same category as cross country runners.
But things are changing. Today, literally thousands of kids play competitive soccer in Memphis. And, that’s happening in cities all over the US. Believe it or not, soccer players are actually as cool as football players in high school. (Kids are following European league players.) As those kids grow up, they will demand more and more soccer as entertainment.
But here’s what will make the biggest difference: ESPN understands that they need another major sport as a growth platform. Soccer interest globally is huge. The World Cup is bigger than the Super Bowl. And, the American market is still largely underdeveloped. If ESPN makes a multi-year push to educate Americans on futbol and promotes it like crazy, then soccer will make it to the next level. Huge win for ESPN.
Baseball is tapering off. The NBA is capped and so is football. Soccer may never be as big as the Big Three (MLB, NBA, NFL) but it can become big with dedicated promotion. The other minor sports, like tennis and hockey, will never be as big – nobody outside the northeast cares about hockey and tennis isn’t that interesting to watch on TV.
The USA need to continue to do well in the World Cup and the Olympics. In addition to success on the pitch, both the men and women need marketable faces. We also need Americans to succeed in the Premier League. When the money gets big enough, the USA will develop a league that’s more interesting and competitive than the MSL. Or, we may just become avid Premier League fans. In any event, the media machine at ESPN and elsewhere will ramp up and enough of us will follow to make soccer big in the USA. Just give it a generation…
Agreed.
I do think that, instead of forming a new league, that MLS will stay the top league; it will simply become a much better top league over time.
Hockey absolutely shot their foot off with that strike. At the time, they were just beginning to crystallize interest throughout the country. It wasn’t football or basketball level interest, for sure, but having that solid national fanbase and general public acceptance was only about three to six years away. Then they took it off the air.
Oh, and I think soccer will overtake baseball within a generation.
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Hockey
in the early-to-mid 90s was really, really close. They had such a good foundation of great players on winning teams in the early part of the decade, and then when Michael Jordan retired the first time and the New York Rangers won the Cup the very next year, I think they had a real chance to carve out some additional space. But then Jordan came back and recharged the NBA, and hockey shot itself in the foot repeatedly. Still, I’d love to live in a city with a team one of these days, because I do love watching it – we’ve had an insane year for greatness in sports as you’re describing, and I’d put the US/Canada hockey stuff right up there with the soccer from yesterday in terms of excitement.
by Will Shelton on Jun 24, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
They're actually on the way back.
Ratings have been fantastic for the last few seasons (and that’s with next to no exposure during most of the season, save whenever ESPN remembers Ovechkin and/or Crosby exist). It’s not great by any stretch of the imagination, but it’s better than you give them credit for.
Also, don’t become a hockey fan here; I respect you too much to let you do that.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Jun 24, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
US/Canada Olympic hockey is the exception to the low interest rule
I’d watch the Olympics for the USA teams, just because I remember the Miracle on Ice
(yes, we had TVs back then, but you actually had to get your fat behind off the couch to turn the knob on the TV to get a different channel. We didn’t mind. It was before the Internet. And, there weren’t that many sports on TV, so the Olympics hockey thing was actually a big deal).
But the NHL – wouldn’t watch it with you even if YOU were buying the beverages and food items.
I haven't watched NHL since the strike.
I still consider myself just as much of a hockey fan now as before the strike (i.e. a big fan), but I got out of the habit of watching and just haven’t gotten back into it.
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd be surprised.
There are many people within the US who will never accept soccer. I imagine those who won’t accept baseball are much less.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Jun 24, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
The attitude is shifting in the bigger cities
I forgot to mention that it’s still definitely not accepted in rural communities as widely. Just two short hours east of Memphis there are no soccer fields at all.
In Memphis, we have this: http://www.mikerosesoccercomplex.com/complexMap.aspx
16 fields, plus a stadium complex, and it’s filled every weekend with nothing but soccer.
You don’t really need rural areas anyway – either from the standpoint of developing players or developing an audience.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Agree on the audience but not on the player development
It’s a numbers game, regardless of where the players reside. There are a bunch of good athletes spread across rural America. If they can develop a love for futbol instead of football or baseball, then the next great soccer player may come from there as well.
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro!"
COEXIST = IMPOSSIBLE + MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
by memphispete on Jun 26, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
As a former cross country runner
we hate soccer players the most. They were the only other athletes who could do what we did, and what we did is the most boring thing in the world…but it was ours. The best soccer players are also instantly among the best cross country runners. And thus my sometimes childish hatred for soccer has taken a long time to die down.
by Will Shelton on Jun 24, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes but throw a baseball at the soccer guys and they'll end up with a black eye.
(They couldn’t catch their behind if you spotted them one cheek…)
But they can run like gazelles and have the endurance to be great CC runners.
Also, the ESPN point is huge
if you put it on SportsCenter every day and build it up for a year, then even the casual fans are going to pay more attention than before because you’ve trained them to. If the Worldwide Leader continues to throw their weight behind it after the World Cup is over, soccer has a real chance.
by Will Shelton on Jun 24, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
They've been quietly broadcasting Premier League on weekend mornings.
I suspect that may increase.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Jun 24, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no rooting interest
who do you cheer for?
by golfballs03 on Jun 24, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I always like to root against the team that the guy next to me is cheering for.
Again, I have no vested interest, but it seems to make things more fun for the other guy. ;-)
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and yell "Touchdown!" whenever a goal is made.
If he complains, just say, “I though you said we were watching football.”
Good times.
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Ask them why only one guy is coordinated enough to use his hands
And, how come they can’t throw the ball properly (what’s with the behind the head stuff)?
Or as the star player flops for the 1,000th time to draw a penalty, Yell in a loud voice in a crowded bar, “Dadgummit, that Ochinegro is such a THESPIAN”.
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro" - Thank you for your service....
Premier League rooting interest
(also re: Americans succeeding in the Prem). Everton and Fulham are both well-known for giving Americans a chance. An American (Tim Howard) stars in goal for the former, and an American (Clint Dempsey) is the star field player for the latter. The former also bought Landon Donovan on loan (they can’t afford him any longer) and is the arch-rival of flag-burning Liverpool.
Other Americans in the Prem, btw:
Brad Friedel (GK) Aston Villa
Brad Guzan (GK) Aston Villa
Jonathan Spector (RB) West Ham
Marcus Hahnemann (GK) Wolverhampton
More may be added after this year’s Cup. Michael Bradley (Borussia Monchengladbach) and Steve Cherundolo (Hannover 96) are playing well enough to warrant a transfer to a bigger club, but we’ll see. Stevie C is a bit old (31), but Mikey is only 22. Also, watch Jozy Altidore (20), who may be out on loan again from Villareal.
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 24, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Altidore didn't do well for West Ham last year.
I’m not sure he’d end up in an EPL side, but I figure he’d be playing in a top league somewhere (Ligue 1?).
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Jun 24, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
He only had one goal for Hull City
But he was top 15 in assists and I believe top 5 in penalties drawn. We’ll see where he goes. . .
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 24, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been rude about Altidore before, but playing for Phil Brown at Hull City wasn’t going to end well. He’s done enough thus far to perhaps make someone take a sniff. He could do worse than end up in a more technical league like Holland, because he’s already got the speed and size thing nailed.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
I think Donovan went for the short loan to stay in match shape. I suspect that if he had been willing to stay, Everton would have tried hard to keep him. He fit in remarkably well. In fact, I think that David Moyes deserves a little (just a little) of the credit for how well Donovan has played in this world cup.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Donovan wanted to stay, Moyes wanted Donovan to stay
Everton just doesn’t have the money that MLS want. We’ll see if they can come up with it in the off-season. Also, agreed on Altidore. A mid-table Spanish team might actually be ideal though.
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 25, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Manchester City.
Really, I’m just sick of everyone piggybacking on Man United.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Jun 24, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
i have family orginially from an area just outside Stoke-on-Trent
so I guess I could go for Stoke City, but they struggle to stay in the top division and I’d say it’s unlikely to see them on TV ever over here.
Stoke's on more than you think.
I know this because I go “why the heck is FSC showing Stoke?” at least once a month during the season.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Jun 25, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I should also mention
that I still don’t have any real interest in watching soccer. Still, I can appreciate how the sport has been managed over the last decade or so.
I just don't know
I’d like to think that if you improve the quality of the MLS that more people will watch, but even in the late 90s and 00 when DC United and LA Galaxy won the CONCACAF Champions league, I don’t feel that it did much to improve interest in the sport that much.
Scheduling is a problem too. the MLS teams that qualify for the CONCACAF Champions League don’t start participating until almost a year later. But then you also have SuperLiga and it’s all kind of confusing. But that’s primarily because the MLS plays a different schedule than all the other leagues in the world. And if they tried to compete against the other sports in the fall-winter-spring, they wouldn’t stand a chance.
No way.
Long answer: UEFA and CONCACAF have no sharing agreements. I don’t even know how that’s feasible, let alone whether said team would compete.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Jun 24, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
plus soccer is just not an American sport
the most popular sports in America are all ones that started here. I think there is room for soccer to grow, but it will never come close to NFL, MLB, NBA.
hmm...
I was under the impression baseball was definitely NOT an American invention, and the Abner doubleday myth was created to make it seem purely American.
Either way, the perception is there.
National pasttime and all that.
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Haven't a clue.
I’ve never researched baseball history. Football? Yes. Curling? Yes.
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't cheer for anything that has "stool" in it...
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro" - Thank you for your service....
Hmmm
I’ve never heard that little piece of treason.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
The NFL
was nothing more than an extension of the collegiate football game, which had its roots in Rugby. American football has modified rules, but the origin of the game clearly wasn’t from America. In fact, the defining moment in the evolution of American football as distinct from rugby was the construction of Harvard Stadium.
Why Harvard Stadium, you ask? In 1905, Teddy Roosevelt was tasked with cleaning up the various forms of ‘football’ that had developed at the collegiate level. The various forms of rules and lack of a management body had led to increased deaths in the sport. One of the proposed solutions to this was to ‘widen out’ the playing field by doubling the size of the field.
However, Harvard Stadium had just been completed in 1904 and doubling the playing field surface would have rendered the stadium useless.
Instead, the forward pass was legalized and the NCAA was founded, and thus began the modern version of ‘football’ that we know and love.
This
is my favorite of all the fan celebration videos (Bill Simmons tweeted it yesterday) – football is the only other sport that makes people do this, and somehow for that reason it’s making soccer so much easier to like.
The fans are another great point I forgot to make
For the guys who enjoy cheerleaders or other people that are easy on the eyes, have you taken a look at the fans who show up on TV cheering for Brazil or some other international teams?
And, then there are the completely insane outfits worn by otherwise (almost) normal people. It’s the only time I’ve ever seen some of my British friends act like the could have fun at (an off-row) fraternity party. One staid Brit had the Royal Jack painted on his chest and it was more shocking the Bruce Pearl….
Seattle
is, apparently, known for having the most Soccer fans, or at least the most rabid, in the USA.
Makes Teh Monies Throwing Down In The Blogosphere.
Huffington Post has a great collection of fan reactions
here, including one from Nashville and an awesome one from San Antonio en espanol, a language at its finest during moments like this
by Will Shelton on Jun 25, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
They'll tell you all about it, too.
To me, this is like saying Alabama fans are the only true football fans, only if Alabama had just jumped to the SEC 10 years ago.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Jun 25, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
And Isner wins 70-68.
Well, that was fun.
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Tennis
I have to disagree with your take on tennis. Clearly soccer is considered by many Americans to be a sport for other countries, but when has that ever been true about tennis?
I wouldn’t put tennis and soccer in the same category. I would put tennis and golf in the same category: non-team sports that a ton of people play, but that maybe not everybody watches on TV. And I think you have to put soccer in its own category.
And even without any elite American tennis players, I think the sport is the best it’s been in a while. With Nadal and Federer, we might very well have the highest quality tennis rivalry of all time. In other words, never before have there been two players this good playing in the same era.
...just apologize for not thanking me.
Sure, the sport itself is at a peak,
but we don’t really have any relatable American players.
And maybe it’s me, but I have always considered tennis to be a European sport.
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
American players
My brother (who also used to play tennis a great deal and still follows the game) and I had this conversation about three weeks ago. He is a little bit annoyed/bothered that there aren’t any elite american players right now. I can honestly say that I don’t care one way or the other. Andy Roddick simply isn’t as good as Nadal or Federer. James Blake never really panned out. Oh well.
But, no, I’ve never considered tennis to be a European sport. I started playing — and trying to hit a forehand like Andre Agassi — at a pretty young age. Always seemed quite American to me. Even the non-americans whose games I’ve appreciated throughout the years have been a pretty diverse lot: Marcelo Rios (chile?); Marat Safin (Russia); Guga Kuerten (Brazil); and of course Anna Kournikova, whose game I didn’t really appreciate so much as her phenotype.
Different perspectives, I guess.
...just apologize for not thanking me.
Sampras-Agassi was good
Nadal and Federer is better. Sampras was the guy that was winning more tournaments and getting the better of his rival. Most of the key matches were won by Sampras. Federer, who is universally heralded as the best tennis player to ever walk the earth, can’t beat Rafael Nadal to save his soul. Compelling stuff.
Plus Nadal is a better player than Agassi ever was. And Federer is a better all-around player than Sampras ever was (Sampras at his peak may have been the best grass court player of all time…but that’s arguable).
...just apologize for not thanking me.
Difficult to compare players across the eras
Racquet technology (composites, enhanced design) and string composition make it challenging to compare generations. Even Sampras-Agassi are of a different generation, much less Laver, Borg, McEnroe, Connors.
Fitness levels are also completely different now. Compare McEnroe’s physique (without gagging) to Nadal…
Federer may be the best non-clay tennis player to walk the earth but Nadal is the best clay court player, ever. That’s quite a statement with Borg out there.
It’s tough to find a quality rivalry in the women’s current game, isn’t it?
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro" - UAS guys, thank you for your service....
by memphispete on Jun 24, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I would say Sampras-Agassi are of the same generation. Graphite racquets changed everything back in the day, and since then the advancements (and you were right to bring up string) have been more incremental than seismic.
Fitness levels are probably more focused on now but tennis has always been a game where fitness helped. Lendl was very fit. Borg was an extremely fit player and also an extremely fast player (McEnroe said that Borg is the only player in history whose speed was comparable to Nadal’s). Nadal is freakish in his speed, strength, and fitness. Now…
…if only Nadal had better knees. He is only 24 and he currently has 7 majors and a gold medal. Federer had fewer majors at the same age. What I’m saying is that Nadal still has a chance to be the greatest player of all time, and not just the greatest clay court player. I don’t believe his knees will allow for it, though, because his style of play is just so punishing.
And, you’re spot on re: women’s rivalries. No great rivalries to speak of at the present time.
...just apologize for not thanking me.
Soccer = gymnastics
It’s awesome to watch every 4 years, when the players have the Stars & Stripes on their uniforms, and it’s immensly popular to play in the under 12 crowd, but I still ain’t watching it in between.
I just don’t have room in my 3.
Official MCM Hater!
"If anyone asks you, you fixed my television. Now go!"
I know what you mean
But players have Stars and Stripes on their uniform fairly frequently. If all you follow is the national team (no club at all), you’ll have a game once every month or so, more during the summer. Here’s how it’ll play out:
2011: Gold Cup, championship of our region. Probably will involve a rivalry game with Mexico. Winner makes the Confederations Cup in 2013.
2012: Start of World Cup qualifying. Will play two games against a small island matchup and then a double round robin in a four team group (last time, this contained USA, T&T, Guatemala, and Cuba).
2013: Final round of World Cup qualifying. 6 teams, 10 games each. Top three to the Cup. Last year, final standings were 1. USA 2. Mexico 3. Honduras 4. Costa Rica 5. El Salvador 6. T&T. And it was tense. Look up the October 2009 USA/Costa Rica game; Honduras declared a national holiday afterwards. They might build a statue of Johnny Bornstein.
Also, if we make the Confederations Cup, it will be 2013. In 2009, this was the stage in which we shocked the world and beat Spain 2-0 (they had an 88 game unbeaten streak, tied for longest of all-time) before blowing a lead against Brazil and losing 3-2.
2014: If we qualify, World Cup time.
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 24, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
See, I didn't know all that
I will watch anytime Team USA is playing if it’s on. I just don’t know very much about the qualifying and stuff.
I do remember that when I was in Fallujah, we had satellite tv, and the European ESPN had soccer (I think UEFA) on 24/7. Literally. I think they play soccer 24/7 over there.
Official MCM Hater!
"If anyone asks you, you fixed my television. Now go!"
It's just been this cycle* that ESPN has even started picking these things up
It will be easier and easier to follow as time goes on. I actually went to a qualifier last April in Nashville against T&T. Only time I’ve been to LP Field, actually. Crowd of 30,000, Altidore had a hat trick (all assisted by Donovan) in a 3-0 win. ESPN might not pick up the Gold Cup next year, but they’ll definitely televise each and every one of our home qualifiers (away qualifiers have TV rights issues, because they have to buy them from other countries. @Mexico and @Honduras usually end up being online streams in Spanish because NBC owns Mexico rights and won’t sell to ESPN). The entire Confed Cup will be on TV. It was last year. Also, being in Brazil, it should be at a decent hour.
*international soccer is measured in four year World Cup cycles.
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 24, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
What the hell?
I would have loved to have gone to that. Where do they advertise that stuff? I just live in Chattanooga AND I am a season ticket holder for the Titans. I had no clue that was going on.
Official MCM Hater!
"If anyone asks you, you fixed my television. Now go!"
It was last April
I don’t know where they advertise it. I know because I follow US soccer. LP Field was a GREAT venue though, so I’m sure they’ll come back. If they do, I’ll let you know. In fact, LP Field is one of the last 18 venues to make the cut for the USA World Cup bid for 2018/22 (more likely 2022). see: http://www.gousabid.com/
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 24, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I was at this match
Can’t help but being an Altidore fan now!
So Sayth King Zach I
by kingofzachland on Jun 26, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly!
And that was actually my first international cap. So even more so an Altidore fan.
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 26, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
That's helpful. Thanks!
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro" - Thank you for your service....
The best thing about soccer
Is relegation. Imagine if the Pirates and Royals could actually be held accountable for fielding garbage teams and never spending money.
If you win all your fights, you're pickin em
That's a great point - The Raiders in the NFL and anything in the bottom half of the NBA's Eastern Conference
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro" - Thank you for your service....
I agree with this
Relegation is genius. There should be relegation in every sports league. Imagine Kentucky and Vandy playing each other for the right to stay in the SEC. You kinda wanna watch now, don’t you?
...just apologize for not thanking me.
It could be huge someday
Like people have stated earlier, with the proper coverage, it could someday be huge in America. ESPN just needs to get everyone pumped ahead of time.
It also wouldn’t hurt to possibly change the whole concept of games finishing in a tie, but that’s just the capitalist American absolutist that’s inside of me.
Love it
I’ve been living in the UK for 14 yrs and I love, love, love the World Cup and the european tournaments. I have to admit, I’ve never really gotten into premiership or champions league, mainly ‘cos I’ve never really developed an emotional connection with a team, but love the international stuff.
Fortunately or unfortunately, I’ve become an England fan and even supported England over the US in the opening match. I have an England flag hanging from my window, and I probably have one of the few (only?) cars in the world with a Power T sticker and an England flag. There’s no feeling in the world like a sunny day in England when the team is doing well in the World Cup. And now that the group stages are over I can support the US, too until they meet again in the final.
It’s hard to say from here, but it does seem like there’s less of the grumbling from the American side of the Pond. But I couldn’t care less about convincing anyone else about it. It’s a great game and fun to watch and it’s fun being a fan. I do get annoyed when Brits say “don’t know why you yanks can’t call it football…” (First off, not a yank – 2nd….) I do call soccer football depending on the audience and of course real football is also football.
As for tennis…I live about 15 minutes from Wimbledon Lawn Tennis club (a lot less when Wimbledon isn’t on) and I’ve never really got into it. But it’s still a great atmosphere.
@B00NE – ties or not – there’s plenty of capitalism in football soccer
I'd love to secure tickets to next year's Wimbledon. Any advantage from being a native?
Since I’m asking implicitly for help in obtaining tickets (with an appropriate acquisition fee), I cannot then turn around and poke fun at England in the World Cup. I love England, and I am not just saying that because I’d love Wimbeldon tickets.
“England have” (and you make fun of our grammar) not put together the quality on the pitch in this World Cup that matches their immense talent. Frankly, the US match should not have been close, based on talent, but it very nearly went the Americans’ way.
On the Guardian website, they were mostly civil and fairly complimentary (thru gritted teeth and under a stiff upper lip, no doubt) regarding the Americans’ performance in the Group. We are not described as being “quality” and they make fun of our “defence” but they appreciate our scrappiness and our heart. If we had anyone who could finish in the final third besides Donovan (Dempsey and Altidore didn’t deliver nearly enough for me to include them), we might be really good. As it is, another round or two would be a terrific result and continue to build soccer in the US.
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro" - UAS guys, thank you for your service....
Ah, the Guardian
Nah, no benefit from being a resident – unless you have connections to members of the club or know ground stewards – and even then tickets aren’t secure. My old boss was offered tickets from a neighbor who was a ground steward and then had the offer reneged with much shame all around.
Best bet is to show up and queue in the early stages. It’s crazy, but I’ve never actually been.
Yeah, England regularly fails to deliver to the level of the talent selected. It’s all part of the crazy ride. In terms of flak-taking at work, I was actually kinda glad of a tie. None of my English colleagues could poke fun at me or grumble either. But I’d rather England had to face Ghana than Germany. And Ghana’s not a joke. Last time the US played Ghana in the world cup it ended up with dancing in the street from the Ghanian community not too far from me.
Ghana have tremendous athleticism and excellent ball skills
Our main hope is that they appear a bit disorganized at times and not as solid on the defensive end.
Best of luck against the Germans. We’ll cheer old England along against the Germans again.
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro" - UAS guys, thank you for your service....
by memphispete on Jun 24, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Baseball is life.
Also, it is wonderful.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Jun 24, 2010 4:55 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Not quite so wonderful the last three days
by Will Shelton on Jun 24, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty patently pathetic, I'd say
If the Mets win tonight, we won’t be in first anymore…I don’t like the Mets.
RA Dickey has gone into college mode by way of the knuckleball
which makes it a real shame that he plays for them
by Will Shelton on Jun 24, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Baseball
I like going to games. Good place to chill out and have a bev. I need to go see Strasburg soon, and I’ll do that.
But watching baseball on TV is simply not an option I’m willing to entertain.
...just apologize for not thanking me.
I have no idea...
if soccer will displace the big 3 in this country. All I know is that I am a relatively latecomer to the sport and I am hooked for life.
I had flirtations with it in the 80’s, then with the World Cup in the USA in ‘94 (I attended the US-Brazil match), but it never ’took’… until about 6 years ago, and I can’t explain what led to it. All I know is that I began watching the Fox Soccer Channel weekly game replay – the English Premier League – and fell in love: with the game, the league, and my adopted club, Arsenal.
Consequences are that I love club football the most, but don’t care for the MSL because it just isn’t very good when compared to England, Spain, Germany, and Italy.
I’m not a manic USA national team follower – I like many nations’ teams (especially Spain) – but when it’s the World Cup, by blood is red-white-blue.
Graysnail hit the nail correctly when describing how access to the game has/will increase interest and viewership. That is certainly the case with me. Between online and TV sources, I’m satisfied 12 months of the year.
Hooper – thanks for the good article – you hit some very important characterizations of what turns many people off of soccer (persisting with the word ‘football’, “you just don’t get it”, etc.). Sometimes I think that some soccer fans really don’t want the game to become immensely popular in this country because that would take away their personal ‘ownership’ of something special. How ridiculous.
Hooper, be honest, did you envision over 80 comments when you first set about writing on soccer and tennis?
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro" - UAS guys, thank you for your service....
Honestly, no.
I was just happy that I finally got a piece written. I’ve been dealing with a bit of writer’s block and have a dozen or so fragments in the waste heap because I couldn’t tie things together. This one went quite smoothly.
by David Hooper on Jun 24, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just so happy to see a post from you...
…that I couldn’t help but comment.
The bummer about writer’s block is that you just kinda have to write yourself out of it.
...just apologize for not thanking me.
Pretty much.
A lot of shredded drafts later, something finally took.
To my great surprise, it was on two sports I don’t actively follow. Huh.
by David Hooper on Jun 25, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Amending to over 135 comments now - Maybe we need a World Cup thread?
It has nothing to do with UT football or basketball but certainly there seems to be interest in the summer doldrums…
COEXISTence is difficult when core beliefs are mutually exclusive and those on the other side keep blowing up buildings, people, etc.
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro!"
by memphispete on Jun 26, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Live game threads are tougher with soccer
Because there are no stoppages or commercials. But a general World Cup discussion thread would be good. It could be great; I’ll let you know in about four hours.
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 26, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Heh.
The thread is up either way. I anticipate very, very informal proceedings on it.
by David Hooper on Jun 26, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
There's something about competetive soccer that is great to watch
The sport suffers from many things that make it not-so American fan friendly, most importantly diving (or whatever the ‘let me act like I got killed so they get a card’ crap is called) which, to this day, makes me more irritated than anything else I can think of in regards to sports. I think that if Soccer could somehow incorporate a way to regulate diving — like being able to give a yellow-card in hindsight after the game if TV showed it to be a complete flop — or some such thing, then I think American audiences would really appreciate the higher-level competition much, much more.
Makes Teh Monies Throwing Down In The Blogosphere.
Theoretically...
a dive is against the rules, and a card is issued… but until they issue replay, I’d hate to be the ref that gave a red card to a guy with a broken leg.
Isn't there only 1 ref?
Maybe adding another one could help with them being able to see all the events. So many times it seems someone gets away with something just because the ref didn’t see it. Now, granted, with such a big field with players spread out all over it that can be hard, buut…
Makes Teh Monies Throwing Down In The Blogosphere.
One center ref
Two linesmen stay on the sidelines but can wave their flag if they see something. The center ref then has the choice of whether or not to acknowledge them.
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 25, 2010 5:44 AM EDT up reply actions
The flop is the main reason why soccer players have the reputation of being [FULMERIZED]
They barely get touched and flop around like bass in the bottom of the boat. 30 sec later they are running at gazelle speed.
Soccer is fairly physical and pretty dirty but the fake flop has got to go. (Bring on the NCAA and make it a point of emphasis – kidding)
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro!"
COEXIST = IMPOSSIBLE + MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
This is probably the main impediment to soccer opularity in the US, period.
Nix the flops and I can’t imagine anybody conceding that soccer isn’t at least as physical as basketball.
by David Hooper on Jun 25, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
See, I don't mind that so much.
I also prefer low-scoring games in hockey. And to be honest, in baseball and football as well. But I know that I’m well in the minority opinion on that.
by David Hooper on Jun 25, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It bothers me in the sense that...
…there is a better chance that the weaker team will flukishly win the game when the scoring is lower. This bothers me in hockey and is actually worse in hockey because the goals — though there are more of them — can be quite flukish (See: Eruzione, Mike).
...just apologize for not thanking me.
True.
And in hockey, a goalie having a bad night can completely upend a superior team.
But I love the thrill of a scoreless game in overtime. The Stanley Cup final game 4 between the Colorado Avalanche and Florida Panthers back around ‘96ish is still my favorite hockey game of all time, and it isn’t even close. Colorado swept the series on a screened blue-line slapshot in triple overtime for a 1-0 final score. The goalies had something like 120 saves between them.
by David Hooper on Jun 25, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I find this whole low scoring argument specious from baseball fans
What’s the point behind watching a pitchers’ duel? How about a no hitter? Or, even more boring from a scoring standpoint, the perfect game?
This might be likened to an end-to-end, Nil-Nil Draw, with 10 shots on goal apiece and brilliant saves by the keepers on both ends.
True, sometimes those 0-0 matches are just dreadful soccer, but so are a ton of those 1-0 baseball games.
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro!"
COEXIST = IMPOSSIBLE + MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
by memphispete on Jun 26, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
What's the problem with that?
It’s not like a guy with a broken leg is going to play. And it’s not like a game suspension would matter with a broken leg, right? ;-)
by David Hooper on Jun 25, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
What about instant replay on fouls that denied goals or offsides the nullify goals? One challenge per half or automatic review of plays where the ball hits the net.
It doesn’t handle the flop issue, but it would deal with the gross injustice of all-too-rare legitimate goals being wiped out from referee incompetence.
It might make a huge difference in World Cup play. For example, the USA would have won the Slovakia game 3-2, earning 3 pts instead of 1. We also would have been up 1-0 already in the Albania game, as Dempsey’s early goal would have not been disallowed for the ridiculous offsides call. We would also have been assured of being through to the knockout round and the Albania game would be for seeding only (entering with 4 pts instead of 2).
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro!"
COEXIST = IMPOSSIBLE + MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
How hard would it be to install replay worldwide?
You really wouldn’t want to have replay in only a few countries, only to spring it on the rest of the countries in the World Cup (or or international event).
I’m just thinking that the main difficulty in implementing replay is getting it available for everyone.
by David Hooper on Jun 25, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm thinking of Televised International competitions like World Cup, Olympics, etc or possibly Premier League
where money isn’t an object.
Street corners in Brasil where kids play barefoot with no shoes, no shin guards or nets in the goals aren’t the target of my suggestion.
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro!"
COEXIST = IMPOSSIBLE + MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
by memphispete on Jun 25, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
It would flagrantly kill the pace of the game for one.
I don’t think there’s an easy solution to goal replays, not without completely redoing the sport. The best replay ideas I’ve seen around have been to determine / adjust carding.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Jun 25, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
If FIFA/Refs
could retroactively assign yellow/red cards for flopping after games by watching video reviews, it would solve about 90% of the issues with flopping.
I for the life of me do not understand why FIFA doesn’t embrace this approach. It does nothing to kill the pace of the game, because the reviews are after the fact – and it helps make players accountable (by way of suspension) for their actions.
Actually, the disallowed goal for offsides takes about 15 seconds to pull up
and highlight the field from one side to the other on the replay. Confirming an offensive foul on a disallowed goal would take slightly longer as a couple of angles are needed but neither should take as long as the ridiculousness that is the NFL review.
I wholeheartedly agree on the retroactive carding idea (at least reversing cards given against a player when the offended player flopped rather than being the victim of an egregious foul).
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro!"
COEXIST = IMPOSSIBLE + MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
by memphispete on Jun 26, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe they could just fake an injury or pretend a puff of air made them flop to the ground
It doesn’t seem to bother their conscience at other times and that’d give the TV guys time for the review as well.
COEXISTence is difficult when core beliefs are mutually exclusive and those on the other side keep blowing up buildings, people, etc.
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro!"
by memphispete on Jun 26, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
The one difference b/w soccer and NFL is that the NFL already has play stoppages.
The review process takes longer for the NFL, but a part of that is mitigated by the natural progression of the game.
Also, how would it affect stoppage time? Would the clock stop while the review is in progress or would the ref add the review time to stoppage play?
by David Hooper on Jun 26, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s been some talk about goal-line technology to determine whether a goal was actually a goal – that would perhaps have added a goal to Italy’s tally against Slovakia yesterday. Generally speaking though, you’d have a hell of a time selling in-game replays for the reason that Graysnail mentions: it would kill the pace of the game.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
What pace?
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
by David Hooper on Jun 25, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You're getting your football confused again.
Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.
by Chris Pendley on Jun 25, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
See above - recall my suggestion only relates to disallowed goals
But in the time it takes for some keepers to place the ball on their 6 after a disallowed goal and put it in play OR other players to place the ball on the proper spot in preparation for a free kick after an offsides disallows a goal, I feel certain that the replay would show onsides or offsides.
With a good TV crew, they actually pull up the graphic on the World Cup games before play restarts – and that’s after adding the shading to match up with the second-to-last defender and cutting the clip to the proper length for airing.
Most people think of the NFL or college football for replay – that’s compounded by multiple camera angles on very close plays. Offsides is fairly simple and only requires one angle.
We could even put the flashing light in the goal – just like hockey. (This is a bit facetious)
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro!"
COEXIST = IMPOSSIBLE + MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
by memphispete on Jun 26, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I applaud the coverage by ESPN!-OH, and nothing new here
I can remember being SO excited watching the U.S. World Cup in ‘94 at Stefano’s on the The Strip. I grew up in North V.A., big soccer country, and played in the league on campus. It is truly a great sport even though I still enjoy watching Football more. Glad to hear others are jumping on board, but I really don’t care if any Americans embrace it as long as I can watch it!!!! It is a GREAT TIME TO BE A U.S. SOCCER FAN!!!!!!!!!
U.S.A!!!
"The only way to completely eliminate bed bugs 100% is to burn the mattress."
Wow! I know I'm late to the party
But naturally I have a few thoughts. First of all, this US National Team will be looked at as a watershed moment in the growth of the sport nationally. This is due to a combination of several factors:
1) TV ratings are up between 60-75% from four years ago, and not just for US matches
2) The dramatic fashion which the US Team has played will certainly gain new fans. Two comebacks and an incredibly tense Algeria game will show the “American fans” that this game is worth watching (even if it was 0-0 most of the match, both teams were creating opportunities to score, it was in no way "boring).
3) The emergence of legitimate stars. The names Donovan, Dempsey, and Howard have become household names. All three of these stars are already well known in England, but now we’ve seen what these boys can do in an American jersey.
Last note: LET’S GET REVENGE ON GHANA!!! (An early goal FOR us would be lovely, I don’t know if my heart can take a penalty shoot-out).
So Sayth King Zach I
I'd love an early goal THAT ACTUALLY COUNTS
The last match would not have had the drama if Dempsey’s goal were allowed upon review and we would have been ahead 1-0 for more than half the match.
Muhammed sez: "Don't Lase Me Bro!"
COEXIST = IMPOSSIBLE + MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
by memphispete on Jun 26, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I heard earlier in the week
that the 2006 Headbutt of Doom finals were the first time in the history of the world that more than half of the total human population was doing the same thing at the same time, watching the game. I’m not sure if that’s an actual stat or an exaggeration, but if it’s even close to being true it’s amazing.
As someone with a lifelong dislike of soccer that’s now getting swept up in all of this, I think the Algeria game was so important both because of the pace, which made it interesting throughout, and of course, Donovan’s goal. If that doesn’t happen and we go home with three draws, doesn’t soccer in America have to wait at least another four years to get where Donovan ultimately brought it with one goal?
by Will Shelton on Jun 26, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I also heard
That the moment right after Donovan’s goal passed the 2008 presidential election for 2nd highest internet traffic at all time.
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 26, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely correct, Will
While I don’t believe it would have been a huge set back to not advance, that Donovan goal was enormous. It was even bigger considering the way that we had played in the first two games and, of course, the scenario that had unfolded. While I hate to agree with FIFA, I think the fact that we had been so thoroughly jobbed in the Slovenia game added extra interest.
So Sayth King Zach I
by kingofzachland on Jun 26, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
It helps that we're doing well
In the year that ESPN decided to finally pour resources into it. This is only the second time they’ve televised all games, and it’s the first time they’ve actually sent people on site. Four years ago, they commented from the studio back in America using the world feed. And they had crappy announcers who didn’t know a thing about the game.
And revenge against Ghana would be AMAZING! Don’t allow them a pk (their last three WC goals have been on pks, including the infamous one against us four years ago), don’t concede early. Theoretically, we should have a keeping advantage in a shootout, but I’d like to wrap this one up without overtime if possible. GO USA!
by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 26, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
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