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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Is The NCAA Interested In Wrongdoers Or Just Wrongs?

Regarding Joe Schad's report yesterday that the NCAA is broadening its investigation into UT's use of hostesses for recruiting under Lane Kiffin, Mike Hamilton's duly concerned but seems to think that the latest news doesn't really amount to much:

"I don’t want to say this is a rehash of old news, but we’ve already acknowledged that the NCAA is looking into this, and that we didn’t have a letter. I guess if there is any news, it’s that we anticipate we might get an official letter of inquiry. But we don’t have that at this stage."

That's good news, I guess, but there's still a great deal of discomfort at having the NCAA sniffing around at the stink Lane Kiffin's left behind. Really, now that it's Tennessee and not West Virginia football or Memphis basketball or, gulp, USC, isn't there something wrong with the concept of punishing a school for the trail of excrement left behind by a former coach while that guy merrily climbs the ladder of ambition? Are they really more concerned with disciplining an institution for making a bad hire than they are in disciplining the guy who broke the rules? Yeah, there's a bit of justice in the fact that Lane Kiffin dropped his on Knoxville only to step into a smelly pile of Pete Carroll's (and his own contributions as an assistant), but who calls off the hunt just because they've found a steaming pile of evidence that the game has relieved itself there?

By focusing only on the stuff left behind by a destructive coach and stopping short of holding him accountable, the NCAA actually encourages the very behavior it's trying to eliminate. Ambitious and unethical coaches will cheat, they will win, and they will take the next best job and hope that the trackers continue to distract and satisfy themselves by taking the coveted scat to the taxidermist.

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I have no problem

with punishment given to a university for the actions of a previous coach. Accountability for wrongdoings by a coach or coaches doesn’t rest solely on Lane Kiffin. Everyone in the athletic department shares the blame.

Not to say I think we will get punished or deserve to be, I just don’t see any problems with punishment handed down in this fashion.

"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan

Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.

by VolBrian on Aug 7, 2010 12:22 PM EDT reply actions  

I (partially) agree

Yes, the university needs to be held accountable BUT the NCAA needs to find a way to make sanctions stick to a coach once he departs. That would certainly clean things up in a hurry when no institution would want to touch a “dirty” coach.

You can take the boy out of Tennessee, but you can't take make him stop wearing Orange.

by kingofzachland on Aug 7, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I left that part out. Sanctions need to follow the perpetrator as well……

"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan

Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.

by VolBrian on Aug 7, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I said the same thing when Coach Cal did what he did to Memphis

But Memphis deserved some culpability for letting him operate that way. Goodness knows, RC Johnson (AD) let Cal do whatever he wanted.

Most of the blame should follow Orgeron and Kiffin though…

The COEXIST bumper sticker is ridiculous. How are people supposed to get along when one side is flying planes into tall buildings or wearing sweater vests full of C4 and nails? The faiths are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

by memphispete on Aug 8, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

As one who will carry a metaphor a lot further than it should be, I have great respect for Joel's performance here.

The COEXIST bumper sticker is ridiculous. How are people supposed to get along when one side is flying planes into tall buildings or wearing sweater vests full of C4 and nails? The faiths are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

by memphispete on Aug 8, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Beating something into the ground?

I have no idea what you’re talking about.

On a related note,

Simulated Gameday Experience - just like the real thing, only we have smoke machines.

by Chris Pendley on Aug 8, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Where is the picture of the toilet?

The POO metaphor demands a series of creative toilet pictures.

Don’t worry. VolBrian can reuse them during Georgia week..

The COEXIST bumper sticker is ridiculous. How are people supposed to get along when one side is flying planes into tall buildings or wearing sweater vests full of C4 and nails? The faiths are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

by memphispete on Aug 8, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

It seemed apt

Everything was intentional (if a bit strained) except the word “eliminate,” which was just a bonus from the ether meant for my own enjoyment, I guess.

by Joel Hollingsworth on Aug 8, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

By the way

Yes, the main point was that stopping with the institution doesn’t get at the real culprit and only encourages a coach to push the envelope and then move on before the authorities catch up, leaving someone else to suffer the consequences.

And I’m guessing that our comfort with having a school remain culpable for a coach’s behavior while employed is founded on an underlying assumption that the school actually had some hand in the matter, probably through neglect or insufficient oversight, but perhaps even worse. Yes, those things are their own wrongs, and they are separate and distinct from the wrong committed by the coach.

The more interesting question, I think, is what level of liability a school has for the acts of its coach absent any of the above. I’d think that few people would think the school would always be responsible for whatever the coach does. For instance, taking it to its ridiculous extreme, should the school be punished if the coach murdered someone? I hope no one thinks that.

So it’s really a matter of finding the line defining the point at which the school should be held responsible for the coach’s, as opposed to its own, wrongful acts. There is an analog in the law that holds employers responsible for the wrongful acts of its employees generally called vicarious liability. Employers don’t like it much, but I think it has its basis in economics. The employee is an agent of the employer, and if he does wrong, then it makes more economic sense to have the employer pay to redress the wrong. The employer’s got more money and therefore is better able to shoulder the burden. The wronged person isn’t stuck with an uncollectible judgment against some individual with no assets. It’s a lot like product liability in that it’s a function of the employer being best able to spread the risk of things going wrong among the entire class of customers. The wronged person can sue, and the employer can recover by increasing the price of its widgets/services by a dollar. Everybody kicks in for the inevitable injury that occurs when a business is engaged in commerce on a large scale.

There are limits, though, as an employer generally won’t be held liable for an employee’s wrongful acts that are committed “outside the scope of his employment,” and, of course, that’s where all the action is.

In this circumstance, I’d be comfortable arguing that intentional cheating (assuming that’s actually the case here, and I’m not convinced that it is, btw) is outside the coach’s scope of employment and so the school shouldn’t be penalized absent some wrong of its own (failure to monitor, negligent hiring (yes, it’s an actual tort), etc.) That’s all theoretical. The counter argument to that is that recruiting is in the coach’s scope of employment and with it comes the risk of cheating. I frankly don’t know how that question would be resolved in the courts.

But again, my main point is that stopping at where you find the crap doesn’t do anything about the crapper. Until there is some negative consequence of torching and running, there’s no reason to think that coaches won’t continue to torch and run.

by Joel Hollingsworth on Aug 8, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strained? HAHAHAHAHA

Brings back the old jr high song.

Ain’t no pain, Ain’t no strain
__________
You may think it’s funny, but I just think it’s runny.

Two bits says half of the state of Alabama would get this fill-in-the-blank wrong….

The COEXIST bumper sticker is ridiculous. How are people supposed to get along when one side is flying planes into tall buildings or wearing sweater vests full of C4 and nails? The faiths are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

by memphispete on Aug 8, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

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