Tennessee vs Vanderbilt: What Is And What Should Never Be
We arrive once more at the most important game of Derek Dooley's tenure in Knoxville. These days "must-win" is a term that gets used in Week 2 of the NFL season; while some will undoubtedly throw it around this week, it's not the best way to describe the Tennessee-Vanderbilt game on Saturday. Dooley said as much in his weekly press conference yesterday:
"I don't think the outcome (against Vanderbilt) is going to change how I'm thinking in the next year or two. It's certainly going to change how we feel this year. And I'm sure it will change how a lot of people feel externally, about me and where we'rd headed, and that's OK. But this one game is not going to impact our entire program the next three years. I'm not approaching it that way.
Everything that was true in this post two weeks ago is still true today. The ultimate fate of Derek Dooley and Tennessee Football will not be decided on Saturday, but in 2012. Tennessee could lose to both Vanderbilt and Kentucky and Dooley will still keep his job. The bigger goals for this season were lost long ago when Justin Hunter and Tyler Bray went down.
In this bizarro world, this game matters for bowl eligibility for Tennessee, but not Vanderbilt. The Dores could lose on Saturday but still get their sixth win against Wake Forest next week. So it's not a must-win for Vanderbilt either.
So why is it the most important game of Dooley's tenure?
See, here's the story that's been playing out all season: poor Vanderbilt hires young and exciting coach. He's different, he's in-your-face, he plays dodgeball with his team. Gets off to a 3-0 start against lesser competition, then the offense disappears against better teams. So they bring in the Super Bowl MVP's younger brother at quarterback, and the offense comes alive. Now, not only are they beating the bad teams on their schedule, but they're so close to breaking through in the games that truly matter. Almost beat Georgia. Almost beat Arkansas. Almost beat Florida. Can't quite get over the hump, but you can just feel it coming.
Meanwhile, Tennessee and their lovable loser head coach with the great hair and the orange pants and the quick wit and the crazy mother just can't catch a break. Best players get hurt one after another, just in time to play four Top 15 opponents in five weeks. The offense literally can't score two touchdowns in an SEC game. What else could go wrong?
Only one important game left for Vanderbilt to truly break through. Only one real test left for Tennessee to find a way to lose. So this is how it's supposed to end, right? James Franklin carried off the field after finally getting the win that would mean the most to his program, Derek Dooley staring off into the sunset and offering more Shakespeare in the postgame. Because Vanderbilt should beat Tennessee, right?
Wrong.
This is where I'd normally type, "With all due respect," but that's exactly the point.
If Vanderbilt wants Tennessee's respect, they'll have to take it by force on Saturday night.
Until then? You're still Vanderbilt, and we're still Tennessee.
This is not the week for Tennessee to feel sorry for themselves. This is not the week to continue the "woe is us" narrative that we seem to find impossible to escape from. This is also not the week to find our own big win. Beating Vanderbilt isn't a revelation around these parts. It's simply what we do. And we are very good at it.
Don't give me 2005. That was six years ago and every single person involved is gone from both sidelines. You get a four year window of opportunity to celebrate a victory like that. But once all the players involved are gone? Now all you're left with are the cold hard facts of a five game losing streak and 27 out of 28.
Tennessee owns Vanderbilt. And on Saturday, the Vols need to run through the T and play football like they believe it.
You think James Franklin has changed anything? Prove it.
From the inside, the voices offer nothing but praise for Franklin's work. Anchor of Gold - which is a terrific site - offered the following yesterday in two different posts:
James Franklin, in eleven months, has done more for Vanderbilt football than anyone in decades. Never mind the brief renaissance under Steve Sloan, or the All-American years when Bill Wade was QB - we're talking maybe Dan McGugin. He could be the transformation of our program. This could be the vindication of everything we’ve hoped for. This could be our chance to do things the right way and WIN while doing it. We got the results we dreamed of and now it's time to settle up and order the next round.
No fooling around. No taking chances. Stack the dollar bills as high as the stars and make the buyout inconceivable.
If James Franklin gets Vanderbilt to a bowl game in his first year - without players he has recruited, with an almost entirely new staff, and coming off a pair of 2-10 seasons - would he be the most impressive rookie coach the Commodores have had in the modern era? Hell, would he be their most impressive coach, period?
While games with Elon and Army have helped pad the team's record, Vanderbilt has proven time and again that they can not only compete with the NCAA's top programs, but also win.
So far, the team has been all-in. If they beat UT, the fans will follow.
I don't doubt for a second that Vanderbilt fans feel this way about their coach. If I was a Vanderbilt fan, I'd be drinking the kool-aid just as heavily. And there's something to be said for having everyone in the program buy in so quickly. I don't blame Vandy fans for feeling the way they do about him at all. Good for them.
But from the outside, I see a man who is simply losing in more exciting fashion.
There's no denying that Vanderbilt has made progress under Franklin's watch, but again, his victories are over Elon, UConn, Ole Miss, Army, and Kentucky. It was just three years ago that Vanderbilt beat two ranked teams, lost four other games by ten points or less, and won the Music City Bowl. And it was just six years ago that Vandy beat five teams, including the Vols, and lost four other games by one possession.
Franklin has fired up the base, beaten bad teams, and been close. But until he wins one of these important games? Vanderbilt is still Vanderbilt.
And until he wins one of these important games, his greatest attributes will be out of the School of Chest-Bumping for Coaches. This is why this game is so important for Derek Dooley: not just because of the bowl game and not just because none of us want to go through an offseason questioning our head coach. But if Franklin beats Dooley, there will be plenty among us who will turn our eyes toward Nashville and be seduced by the School of Chest-Bumping: "We should go get James Franklin!" "Why?" "I don't know, I just really like his energy!"
That's why the "James Franklin is Bruce Pearl" comparison - being made back in April by Anchor of Gold and pushed by many others since then, including Clay Travis - is so absurd. It's insulting, really.
Are their personalities similar? Okay. You know why people really loved Bruce Pearl?
Because he won big games.
Pearl walked into Austin in his sixth game and blew the doors off of #6 Texas by 17 points. Then he beat the Florida team that would go on to win the National Championship. Twice. Then he led a UT team to victory at Rupp Arena for the first time in seven years. Then he won the SEC East, put the Vols in the NCAA Tournament for the first time in four years, and earned a two seed, the highest ever in the history of the program. All in year one.
We could stop here, and the comparison would be completely invalid.
On top of all of that, to compare Tennessee Basketball pre-Pearl to Vanderbilt Football pre-Franklin is even more insulting. We may have hit a down period immediately before Pearl with Buzz Peterson, but we made four straight NCAA Tournaments from 1998-2001, and have a significant amount of basketball tradition for an SEC school not named Kentucky...a team we've beaten more than any other. You know what Vanderbilt was before James Franklin showed up? They were Vanderbilt. And until they win a meaningful game under Franklin, they will continue to be Vanderbilt.
So please, spare me that ridiculous comparison. You want to change my mind? Beat us on Saturday.
Everyone in the Tennessee Family in Neyland Stadium on Saturday - players, coaches, administrators, fans, even the ushers - needs to stop expecting bad things to happen and start playing for and making the breaks. If you're a UT fan and you are at all able, you need to come to this game, and you need to come angry. Vanderbilt thinks they're better than us. In my book that's blasphemy. We need to put them in their place.
We need a crowd on Saturday that doesn't sit on their hands. I was in Fayetteville for the first time last week. Their fans were just as impressive as their football team; almost the entire stadium stood up for almost the entire game. Not just the student section, but the old folks too. I see it at Virginia Tech every time I go to a game there. Crazy thought, cheering for your team like you mean it.
This isn't the week to show up depressed. This is the week to be hostile, like the environment we once were. There is no way a Vanderbilt Football team should be able to walk into Neyland Stadium and have their way.
As for the team? No matter what's happened this season - and no matter who's playing quarterback - everyone putting on that orange jersey needs to do so believing and knowing that Tennessee teams take care of business against Vanderbilt, and leave no doubt about it. Dooley doesn't need to bring in Peyton Manning to remind them of that; Jim Bob Cooter would suffice. As would any other Vol in the last twenty-eight years. We do not lose to Vanderbilt. We punish Vanderbilt.
If I'm wrong, I'll be right back here on Sunday to apologize and congratulate Vanderbilt for their accomplishment.
But until I'm wrong? Spare me any notion that Vanderbilt is better than we are, or that I should be afraid of James Franklin. You want our respect? Come and get it.
Winning this game is what Tennessee does. It's time to be Tennessee again.
Go Vols.
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I read this three times
It’s everything I’ve been trying to get across this week. Thanks, Will.
by danmarcel on Nov 15, 2011 8:49 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Rec'd
For pure chocolatey gooey awesomeness.
BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." -John Heisman
"Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach". -Woody Hayes
You've got me fired up!!!
I’m ready to go out shw Vanderbilt where they belong! Great article. Love the fire.
by Displaced_Vol_Fan on Nov 15, 2011 9:19 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Slow clap......
Whattya say boys??? Whattya say!!!!!!
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn’t matter. I’m amphibious." – Charles Shackleford
by Craig T on Nov 15, 2011 9:23 AM EST via mobile reply actions
It may not be "must-win" for Vandy...
… but I think you could argue that this Saturday is their easier chance for a win. Wake hasn’t been too bad lately.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
I was going to say this as well
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
Would you like...
another pitcher of cold water with which to attempt to dampen our spirits?

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Good thing we're bamboo
And EVERYONE knows Water isn’t very effective against Grass-Type Pokemon Fans.
______________________________________________
Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
true....
Your water is relatively speaking, quite warm. I was just fired up, reading along, and your comment was the first non-let’s kill’em boys! remark. So yeah, I was just being kinda silly.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
"Until then? You're still Vanderbilt, and we're still Tennessee."
Damn right. No matter what the score, I’m still proud to be from Vanderbilt, but you’ll always be Tennessee.
by PhilipVU94 on Nov 15, 2011 9:29 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
if the Vandy students I've run into are at all representative. . .
yeah, you go ahead and be proud.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
Why can't we be friends?
Why can’t we be friends? Why can’t we be friends? Why can’t we be friends? :)
Tennessee fans roll their eyes when I talk about Vandy, Vandy fans become ill when I talk about Tennessee.
I'm assuming they aren't representative
but when talking to trolls, I leave that part out
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
One of my best friends from law school went to Vandy for undergrad
but when it comes to Vandy vs. UT, he has a real nasty mean streak. And he has family who went to UT and he posts the nastiest comments about Vol fans on his FB page. I just don’t respond to that stuff.
I can't believe a Vandy fan got me this annoyed...
Yeah… I am actually a Dawg fan.
I am in no way anti-UTk, but I will tell you what. James Franklin is a complete doosh.
(Coach Grantham should have laid him out on the field after the UGA/Vandy game)
Suddenly, Vanderbilt has become one of the now 3 teams that I ALWAYS want to see lose, and lose like Vandy loses!! (Florida, Auburn, and Vandy?!?!?!?!)
Why would you come on this board and talk smack Mr. Candybuilt?
Are you suddenly feeling good because you have somehow managed 5 wins this year Vandy-boy?
Tell your team to show up only to get their pants pulled down.
I hope that UTk beats you so soundly that you can’t get it together for the Wake game and the you lose yet again.
Then you can go into the off season realizing that you are still the losers that you have ALWAYS been.
GO VOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(and dawgs, cuz their my team)
take the orange colored glasses off
because football in the sec as you know it is changing. maybe UT will catch up when Dooley learns to count at key moments of the game. Pearl? really he is a salesman that got caught cheating but when he got caught still thought he was untouchable and still kept with his cheating ways. all the UT people can cry " oh but he came forward about the violations". yeah he came forward only after he already lied about it and then only came forward when he found out that the NCAA had a picture of it. good ol’ rocky top, you will always SUCK to me
by scott.pennington2 on Nov 15, 2011 9:40 AM EST reply actions
Vandy has trolls?
Heck I didn’t even know they had fans…
BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." -John Heisman
"Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach". -Woody Hayes
by Joseph Stanley on Nov 15, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
with three SBN accounts
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
Vandy Trolls....Rec'd
Must be Ole Miss fans jumping on the early bandwagon.
You have been banned from Stampede Blue.
You called a writer a ‘douchebag.’ Sorry, gotta ban you for that comment.
Wow.
Where were y’all the last few years? Bandwagon fans, gotta love em. At least have the cajones to come in and talk trash when you’re not favored to win. Pathetic.
really?
90% of your basketball fans werent fans of the vols before pearl got there.
by scott.pennington2 on Nov 15, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions

______________________________________________
Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
by bobothevol on Nov 15, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure it is:
student.admission = .false.
If (daddybankaccount > x) then
student.admission = .true.
end if
All the math you need. ;-)
by David Hooper on Nov 15, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
WHERE ARE YOUR BRACKETS
RABBLERABBLERABBLE
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Nov 15, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
THATS A PERIOD NOT A SEMICOLON
YOU CAN’T EXPLAIN THAT!!
______________________________________________
Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
Close.
I was looking for “shot to hell by the end of the first weekend in March Madness because I had Vandy making the Sweet 16.” But thanks for playing!
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Nov 15, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, wha???
Haven’t you guys lost….ah….27 of last 28 or whatever? If that’s sucking for Tennessee, sign me up.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn’t matter. I’m amphibious." – Charles Shackleford
by Craig T on Nov 15, 2011 9:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's ok to have the opposing viewpoint
But tact…it matters.
Tennessee fans roll their eyes when I talk about Vandy, Vandy fans become ill when I talk about Tennessee.
It's going to be a long week for you, isn't it?
by David Hooper on Nov 15, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Sigh...yes
Imma be sort of annoyed/annoying no matter where I go :-P
Tennessee fans roll their eyes when I talk about Vandy, Vandy fans become ill when I talk about Tennessee.
we beat Vandy, Vandy beats Wake
it’s all good, right?
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Bowl games are nice
And that’s all I’ll say about that :)
Tennessee fans roll their eyes when I talk about Vandy, Vandy fans become ill when I talk about Tennessee.
Pick one (UT)
Easier that way
:)
"We've got weapons, we've still got weapons... That's terrible, I apologize."
- Bruce Pearl
SQUEEE!!!!!!11
IT’S SO CUTE I JUTS WANNA HUG IT LOOK AT ITS WITH ITS PUFFY CHEEKS AND JUTTING JAW AND I THOUGHT THESE DONT COME OUT FOR A FEW MORE WEEKS OH WAIT THATS RIGHT THEY’VE GOT A REAL GOOD CLEVELAND STATE BASKETBALL TEAM THIS YEAR STILL ITS ADORABLE DOES THIS MEAN WE GET 6 MORE WEEKS OF FALL?!
______________________________________________
Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
by bobothevol on Nov 15, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LMAO
BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." -John Heisman
"Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach". -Woody Hayes
by Joseph Stanley on Nov 15, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
oh your great pearl
i think University of Indianapolis would ring a bell here during an exhibition game?
by scott.pennington2 on Nov 15, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Every home game I've been to this year
I’ve either seen a stranger removed for standing/cheering, had a friend removed for standing/cheering, or have almost been removed myself for standing/cheering.
Please
Please let Dave Hart change game day at Neyland. Please. I’d rather we run through the T to Waka then have our fans removed for cheering. There’s a reason the seat numbers are so close together: BECAUSE YOU SHOULDN’T BE SITTING. Athe opener, I had a guy yell at me all game to sit, and then he stood for the band at halftime. Tears
I've heard so many of these stories
I think we need some mass mailing to Dave Hart about the gameday situation and what the ushers are doing
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Thats generally been my experience
When seated outside of the student section.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn’t matter. I’m amphibious." – Charles Shackleford
by Craig T on Nov 15, 2011 10:01 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was on the front row in Fayetteville
and took this picture during the first quarter – how many people do you see sitting down?

by Will Shelton on Nov 15, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
If I got thrown out of Neyland for standing up or defending someone else's right to
I’d wear it as a badge of honor for the rest of my life. And if we don’t start winning soon, it’s definitely going down between me and the guys who sit behind me.
by Will Shelton on Nov 15, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
what I don't understand
is why. why are the ushers taught to do this? and why can’t we go over their heads and try to institute a culture change?
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
When we're winning, it's much less of a problem
or at least it wasn’t in the same section I sit in today in the late 90s. But when I came back there after my time in the mandatory-stand student section in 2003, it was different. And it’s only gotten worse. When we’re winning, the people want to be there more and want to be involved. Since the second half of the Georgia game this year it’s like people are there just waiting to see what will go wrong next.
Winning cures all.
by Will Shelton on Nov 15, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
I completely understand why individual fans aren't into it
but what baffles and angers me is that ushers are instructed to kick out people who are standing and cheering when people behind them want to sit. they have to be getting those instructions from somewhere.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Ding. Ding.
I believe the answer is “those down in front!ers are complaining and threatening to withhold donations”.
by David Hooper on Nov 15, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
that doesn't even make sense
the only ones who are affected are sitting behind someone who’s standing.
but whatever they’re threatening, we seriously need a mass campaign to threaten more
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Never underestimate crabby people.
It doesn’t make sense, but I think that’s what is happening. They’re interested in their own good view and comfort rather than actually helping the team out. They’ve already “shown support” by paying the donation and for the tickets (which is true), and therefore feel there is no need to be uncomfortable, i.e. standing.
by David Hooper on Nov 15, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
I don't even understand why people find sitting at Neyland comfortable
but whatever the reason, we need to find a way to get to the administration and get the general directions changed. I am a fan of Dave Hart. Maybe I’m being naîve, but I can’t imagine he gets lots of complaints about ushers actively discouraging fans to stand and cheer and shrugs it off.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
I bet you're right.
Squeaky wheels, etc.
by David Hooper on Nov 15, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
I haven't had this experience directly
(actually, the only time I was told to sit down by someone behind me was at a MUSE concert in the New Boston Garden), but people seriously need to make noise, RTTers included. Flood the AD’s inbox.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
And alternate plan:
Step 1: Stand throughout pregame, running the T, etc.
Step 2: Keep standing.
Step 3: As soon as people start sitting down, complain to the ushers that they’re not helping and therefore ruining your game day experience.
by David Hooper on Nov 15, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Well, maybe not alternate.
How about consecutive?
by David Hooper on Nov 15, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
haha, sounds nice to me
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Amen
BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." -John Heisman
"Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach". -Woody Hayes
by Joseph Stanley on Nov 15, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
If you're up for getting thrown out, please invite me to go with you.
I’d love to be a part of that.
by David Hooper on Nov 15, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
At LSU, these guys screamed at some kids on the row in front of me to sit down
then one jumped up and put his finger in the kid’s face. Honestly, it happened so fast and shocked me so much I didn’t do anything other than eventually say something about the futility of fighting amongst ourselves. They generally leave me alone because they know I don’t listen to them anyway – those two guys have been sitting there for all the years I have. One of them told me to sit down, I kid you not, on the second play of the UCLA game in 2009, and I told him to stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution.
But the next time something like that happens to a group of kids will be the last time it ever happens.
by Will Shelton on Nov 15, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Seconded
Tickets for the game should be dirt cheap. I plan on going, and standing, and being hoarse on Sunday.
My fear is that Neyland turns into Sanford
The only time UGA gets loud is on 3rd down defense. That’s what Neyland is like now. Growing up we stood up and yelled the entire time on defense and the upper deck would at least stomp until Neyland was shaking. Need those days to return and winning should help us get there.
by The Life & Opinions of Boone, Gentleman on Nov 15, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Good article and completely agreed. Vandy is still Vandy and they still suck.
This TN team with injuries, youngsters, and no depth has gobs more talent than Vandy and theyre playing at home. I will say I couldnt help but see a parallel between your description of Franklin, his body of work, and what he’s done to the Vandy fanbase and Bray, his body of work and what he’s done for the UT fanbase. Bray has beaten bad teams, rallied the fanbase around him but also has yet to get a big win. Doesnt Bray just lose in “more exciting fashion” ? Kind of like you said about Franklin but sub in Bray, “there’s no doubt (the vols) have made progress under Bray’s watch but his victories are against (list of Bray’s victories).” Then you could even go as far as to say “it was just a few years ago the vols beat (name the ranked team) and a few years before that they won the SEC east title.” You did say you would drink the Franklin kool-aid if you were a Vandy fan though so drinking the Bray kool-aid is acceptable. BTW I think Bray is a good QB but I just noticed the pot calling ……well u know.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Nov 15, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting
I’d say Bray’s performances against South Carolina and North Carolina last year and Cincinnati this year give him more evidence, plus he’s responsible for a smaller percentage of the losses than Franklin will be held accountable to. But it’s a fair and interesting point.
by Will Shelton on Nov 15, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
I agree and thought about that as I substituted a QB's name
for a HC’s name but I thought I’d throw it out there because its what I was thinking while reading. Bray is around 54% 16/12 or 16/11 td/int vs SEC comp if I remember correctly which is solidly average. Then when you throw in his youth and lack of surrounding talent into those #‘s its fair to assume he will be a really solid QB. My only question about Bray is between the ears. Bray’s old finger whirling thing and dancing around on the sideline to the PA music seems a little immature for a QB. Franklin wont do anything special at Vandy imo as long as they are Vandy and they stay in the SEC.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Nov 15, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Bray is 12-8 TD-INT in SEC games
completing 54.3% of his passes
by Will Shelton on Nov 15, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
12/8 in both years combined SEC play?
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Nov 16, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Yep
9/6 in 2010, 3/2 this year (all Florida)
by Will Shelton on Nov 16, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Hmm dont remember what games I counted awhile back
but I remember throwing out stats vs garbage teams. I guess I was in the ball park even though I was too high on tds/ints.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Nov 16, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I have been to all the home games this year.
I have had seats in I, J, JJ, & Y. Can’t say I have seen anyone removed for standing, but I have been asked to sit down (the person beside them just looked at me and shook their head no). I stand most of the time, but not all the time. I understand where some come from, I have a few pictures of the back of people who jumped up as I snapped the picture. Annoying? Yes. Should I get mad? NO! I do not go to the games for a nice quiet sitdown with my friends. I go to stand up and get loud to show my support for the boys on the field not the ticket holders in the stands. If this offends you, buy your seats up in the skybox where you can sit to your hearts content. I’ll be at the Vandy, standing and yelling for my team. I’ll be easy to spot. I’ll be the guy in ORANGE!
FEAR THE PANTS!!
GO BIG ORANGE!!
by Master Jedi Starkiller on Nov 15, 2011 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
You be tn all you want
and when vandy does get a win they know they did it the right way. not to mention that vandy fans dont have to worry about the players embarrassing them by the current or past student athletes performing some act of crime.
by scott.pennington2 on Nov 15, 2011 9:59 AM EST reply actions
"The right way"
Awesome.
Clearly, you’re referring to the basketball violations, which UT is currently serving.
Don’t.Understand.Point.
"We've got weapons, we've still got weapons... That's terrible, I apologize."
- Bruce Pearl
I'll be there, I'll be loud
Beat Vandy! Like a normal Vandy beating even.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 10:07 AM EST reply actions
You know what
This post/thread has changed my mind. I had plans out of town this weekend. I’ve just cancelled. I’m going to Neyland and I’m going to cheer. I’ll se y’all there.
Makes me wish
I had the money to go. (Long commute from out here :P)
BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." -John Heisman
"Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach". -Woody Hayes
by Joseph Stanley on Nov 15, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
I understand
well, mine is not quite as long, but I could still only afford one a month. This is my November. Let’s go Vols!
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
I'll be there as well
let’s hope we make it count
by Will Shelton on Nov 15, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
FWIW
I was in Nashville yesterday and listened to 104.5 most of the time I was there. While there was quite a bit of Vandy talk and hype about the upcoming game, at least half of the Vandy talk was complaints from callers that nobody showed up to the Kentucky game. Yes, Caldwell has fired up Vandy fans, but he still has a long way to go there and if he’s smart he’ll bolt for a better job before he sticks around long enough for the novelty to wear off.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Caldwell?
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
That's the first time "Caldwell has fired up..."
has been used in a sentence
by Will Shelton on Nov 15, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
It's Franklin, not Caldwell
But yes, attendance is poor. I’m not sure how they’re going to change it…the students have never really been interested even when the team has been “good” by Vandy standards. With Nashville being the biggest city in the conference and there not being a ton of alums around, it’s also a struggle to get the broader community invested.
Tennessee fans roll their eyes when I talk about Vandy, Vandy fans become ill when I talk about Tennessee.
The last time I was there, the place was packed.
I suggest Franklin hire U2 to come play at every home game.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Well Put
My sentiments exactly Will.
Look I don’t care how many paper tigers you beat and how many close games you lost. There is no such thing as moral victories.
I only count wins and losses.
We still have homefield advantage.
Vandy might be the “sexy” pick right now. But you’re still Vandy, get over yourselves.
"We've got weapons, we've still got weapons... That's terrible, I apologize."
- Bruce Pearl
Two words describe Vanderbilt this year:
Chuck Testa.
______________________________________________
Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
This article has made the big time!
Included in the “Quickly” section of Dr. Saturday’s morning round up.
Tennessee fans roll their eyes when I talk about Vandy, Vandy fans become ill when I talk about Tennessee.
OT:
if anyone’s near a TV, Kent State is up on West Virginia by 7 midway through the second half (ESPN, basketball), and USA/Slovenia kicks of a World Cup rematch on ESPN2 at noon.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 11:33 AM EST reply actions
Watching the Kent State game currently
Can’t say I’ve missed the “Huggin’s sweatsuit” though
"We've got weapons, we've still got weapons... That's terrible, I apologize."
- Bruce Pearl
Kent up 10 with 2:30 to go
then USA/Slovenia and Belmont/Memphis on at the same time
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
YES!
I love this post! I am actually going to a UT football game for the first time since he-who-shall-not-be-named was coach two years ago so I get to see Dooley and those orange pants in person for the first time ever! I was already excited about the game but after reading this I am simply PUMPED! I have family who are Dores fans…believe me, they are used to losing..and we’re just going to keep that losing train going one more year. Go Vols!
Just another Vanderbilt Troll
I’ll be honest, I love this post. I help run a Vanderbilt Sports site (www.vanderbiltsportsline.com – shameless plug) and think this post is terrific for a host of reasons. It’s the kind of thing me and the rest of the VSL Braintrust try to write all the time.
First. you’re absolutely right to say that Vanderbilt is Vanderbilt and Tennessee is Tennessee, and that until we beat the Vols, that relationship won’t change. To earn your resepct, we’ve got to take it. For my money, this is the most important game of James Franklin’s brief tenure. It’s time for enthusiam to translate into the wins, and for the Commodores, no win would be bigger because of all the sentiments expressed in this post.
Tennessee fans, at best look down on Vanderbilt football, and at worst ignore it outright. If we win on Saturday, that will be harder to do. Either way, I’ll be back on Rocky Top Talk.
Respect, but...
I’ll go ahead and admit to being a Vandy grad and huge fan. And a lot of what you say is fair. But: you cannot claim that Pearl was more impressive than Franklin and then immediately follow that up with how much prouder UT basketball history is than Vandy football. I understand not wanting to be compared to VU football (seriously, I do), but that is exactly why Franklin has us so excited. Pearl inherited a better team, so he should have been better than Franklin. But for Vandy, it’s not about who we’re beating. It’s about who we aren’t losing to (teams we should beat). It’s about not folding when a bounce goes the wrong way. And it’s about being competitive week in and week out. I am terrified that we’ll blow this somehow. I really am. But for the first time maybe ever, Vanderbilt objectively should win, and that’s reason enough to give Franklin whatever he wants to stay as long as he wants, even after year 1.
It's not so much that Pearl is more impressive than Franklin
it’s that the comparison itself is just off. Franklin can be praised for doing what he’s done within the program without having to compare him to a coach who had unprecedented success on a national level in his first year with Tennessee Basketball. It’s not meant to downplay what Franklin’s done, it’s just to say, he’s not Bruce Pearl.
by Will Shelton on Nov 15, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
The point that's being made
Is that, well… Vanderbilt football has never really done much of anything, you know? It’s obviously the UT /Vanderbilt attitude — which I think everyone but Troll A up there caught — but Tennessee basketball has a stronger tradition, more than likely, that Vandy football.
I think someone on NFL Live or Jim Rome or some ESPN show the other day said it best to describe the in-your-face style mentality (they were talking about the Lions and their “dirty” play, which most label "overtly aggressive rather than dirty). When you’re winning you’re changing the culture of a franchise. When you’re losing you just look Busch-league. That’s kind of my personal attitude towards Franklin so far: sure he’s able to yell and scream and get his players to play hard, but in the SEC games and reputation aren’t earned (but they can disappear quickly) by not losing to Army or Ole Miss or Kentucky or Wake Forest. As Will pointed out in the article, Vanderbilt has a history of being “almost” good. But, like Kentucky, it always seems they Vanderbilt away games they should win. Just look at some of the closer games in this Rivalry. Until you can beat Tennessee more than once in a blue moon, there’s no way you can pound your chest about being better than ’em, yeah?
______________________________________________
Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
Fair enough
But a couple of things. That Vandy has a history of “almost winning” is only sort of true (though I appreciate the generous characterization!). Once a year or so, they used to come close to an upset, and occasionally they actually carried it out. But that’s a different feeling than this year, where the only game that Vandy truly didn’t have a shot to win was ’Bama.
And as for the trash talking / excitement point, I understand the frustration for sure. I happen to love what Schwartz is doing in Detroit, but I don’t blame you or anybody for reacting negatively to it. That said, one major problem (again, among many, many of them) that Vanderbilt football has had for the last X number of years is a lack of emotion. It’s a vicious cycle. Losing makes you bummed, which makes you not cheer, which makes the team worse, and so on. What Franklin is doing is no different than what this post is intended to do: Fire up the base (and in Franklin’s case, obviously, make the players believe). That opens us up to trash talk, and I’m happy to be relevant enough to be worth it. But it’s not just idle talk – it’s party of his efforts to actually change the product on the field. And that’s not only his prerogative, but his responsibility.
by gold_blooded on Nov 15, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
It’s a vicious cycle. Losing makes you bummed, which makes you not cheer, which makes the team worse, and so on
WE CANNOT RELATE NOW PLEASE GO AWAY YOU DONT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT IM GOING TO DO WITH THIS KNIFE JUST SHARPEN IT ON MY ULNA.
______________________________________________
Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
Can't relate?
Wasn’t the crux of this argument about how UT fans need to overcome exactly this problem? Sure, there is a UT pride that Vandy doesn’t have (or deserve to have), but the basic theme of the post is that UT needs to show some swagger, both on the field and in the stands. The truth is, the Vanderbilt base is more optimistic than the UT base is. Vandy’s is clearly much, much, MUCH smaller, but the sentiment is still there. I’m not looking for a fight here, but at least be consistent in your trash talk.
by gold_blooded on Nov 15, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
yeeeeeaaaah

Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Damn it.
Sorry boys. I swear I’m not an idiot. Most of the time…
by gold_blooded on Nov 15, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
I think I just assumed I was getting picked on. Old habits….
by gold_blooded on Nov 15, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
The Real Truth
I know every UT fan would like to look at this article and think “Heck Yeah” beat the Dores and were back on track…..Unfortunately whether you win or lose Saturday night you still have a coach who cannot compete in the SEC with highly recruited football players. Take a look at where ESPN rated your last five recruiting classes. I’m gonna go back to 2007 because a redshirt senior this year would have come out of the 2007 recruiting class.
2007- #3 recruiting class in the nation according to ESPN
2008- #35 (Not so good, but better than Vandy who didn’t even rank in the top 50)
2009- #15
2010- #9
2011- #13 this year’s freshmen
You got the talent Tennessee……But you don’t have the coach!! Go Dores!!
Idiot or ignorant?
A modicum of research would make you more credible.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
hint:
in your first time on the site, you shouldn’t go spouting off a whole bunch of irrelevant facts that all Tennessee fans have already talked to death and act like they definitively show that Tennessee is doomed.
In short form:
2007 class: highly ranked and one of the top busts of the last decade. Busts occurred before Dooley showed up, and can’t be considered remotely his fault.
2008 class: low expectations, and performance was worse than expectations. Again, pre-Dooley.
2009 class: highly ranked and also one of the top busts of the last decade, mostly due to legal troubles. Over half the class has transferred or been kicked off the team. Over half. Let that sink in. Again, you can thank Kiffin, not Dooley, for that.
2010 class: yes, actually very talented. Also only sophomores. Also, the two most talented players in the class have been injured for the past 5 games, a point that you should realize if you watch any SEC football at all, regardless of whether you’ve been on this site before.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
I'MMA HANG UP AND LISTEN.
______________________________________________
Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
I DON'T KNOW IF HOUSTON NUTT IS THE RIGHT PERSON TO LEAD VANDERBILT
CLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY IMMA HANG UP AND LISTEN
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Nov 15, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You know what.
He’s right. That Tennessee has defeated Vanderbilt with each of those recruiting classes probably means something too, by a combined score of 100-60.
______________________________________________
Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
This ....
has been very entertaining. I would love to come to the game on Saturday. I think I may have told y’all I’ve never been to a game in Neyland? Now I’m sorta scared…if I stand up will people yell at me and get me thrown out? I’m sort of sensitive and I might get emotionally scarred. :-(
The Vandy trolls are soooooo precious. They are just babies, and they are trying to learn the basics of trolling, because they’ve never had any basis for trolling before. Still don’t, like Will points out so well, but it’s so cute to watch them tumble around.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I'm pretty sure you can handle yourself. :-p
I stand up on third downs, when something exciting happens, and whenever somebody in front of me is coming anywhere close to giving me an excuse. And I cheer all the time. Never had a problem. But we’re not yet at the point where you can stand for 60 minutes and not piss people off. Sadly.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 15, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going to clear my cheering intent
as soon as I get my seats. If they don’t like it I will trade into worse seats if I can’t convince our fans to cheer.

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