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Former Players' Words Scarring An Already Injured Program


We're all mad.

There's no way around it. We're hurt, disappointed, a little bit embarrassed, certainly disenfranchised and just really unsure where the Tennessee football program goes from here.

We're not sure about whether our head coach is the answer to our decade-long swoon. We're concerned about the "silly season" that has now started much too early for the Tennessee Volunteers. Who will get fired? Who will leave for another coaching job? Will we lose any recruits? How about transfers? Will we ever have any leadership on this team? What's next moving forward?

Since losing 10-7 to Kentucky on Saturday, ending another forgettable season, we've listened to departing seniors Tauren Poole and Austin Johnson talk about how the team quit on Dooley, didn't want to be out there or about how some of the younger guys only care about stats. We've seen Justin Hunter tweet something about being "done" and tried to read into the words of a 19-year-old that may mean absolutely nothing. We've watched Da'Rick Rogers get in a twitter battle with our fans.

And that's only the beginning.

We're, once again, a broken fanbase split  in our support for our coach and desire to see signs of forward movement. Fans have taken to message boards, radio airwaves and other public forums to voice displeasure. National media sees blood in the water and feeds the flames with facts about Derek Dooley's lack of past success.

Much of this, in a sad sense, was predictable. It's even understandable. Failing to compete against any marquee teams and then losing to a division rival that you've beaten 26 consecutive times will turn things ugly in a heartbeat. Heck, we NEED to ask questions and be concerned. We need to demand better than this because, dang it, we're still Tennessee. Things need to get fixed, or things need to get changed. I get that. It's our right as fans to be pissed off right now. This reaction is, as I said, predictable.

But what is unpredictable, alarming and ultimately detrimental to the program's present and future is the throng of former players who are publicly grumbling about Dooley.

What good can come of this? As guys like Raynoch Thompson, Jabari Davis, Troy Fleming, Fred White and many others rip on the program they love and want to return to prominence, the coach that leads it and the decisions that have been made, why can't they see ...

They're doing much more harm than good.

Star-divide

When they exhaust their eligibility and their NFL dreams are over, players essentially become fans like the rest of us -- only with much more clout. The past three years, they've seen their father-figure coach Phillip Fulmer forced out, the fans and boosters split in their allegiances, brash Lane Kiffin hired, Kiffin leaving like a thief in the night after one season, an NCAA investigation, a no-name with a losing record hired to replace him, and the athletic director who orchestrated it all fired. In the midst of it all, the Vols have slumped to records of 7-6, 6-7 and 5-7.

In many of their minds, Fulmer should still be manning the UT sideline. Heck, I'm not even disputing anymore the possibility that we MAY be in a better position right now if the ax never came down on the big man. [Editor's note: I'm not saying I think that. Only that it's arguable. I was on the front lines of "Fulmer needs to go. I'm not backing off that now.] 

But what is this public verbal flogging accomplishing? Why go on the radio and spit bile toward your program's head coach now, when we need some continuity?

This crushes perception. It further confuses a fractured fanbase wanting to support the current regime when their favorite players of old can't. It cripples recruiting. It leads to unrest among players, coaches, within the program. Passion sometimes leads to ignorance, and this is a clear example.

You want him fired, guys? Now? I cannot even imagine the magnitude of a move like that -- again -- on our program at this point -- and I've been one of the people concerned about Dooley for months.

Does Dooley need to make changes? Absolutely. There are some staff changes that need to be made. Dooley -- for all of his Vol For Life mumbo jumbo -- needs to make the program more accessible to former players who still want to come around and be part of it. He probably needs to re-examine his postgame berating of the players and discussions of needing to hit rock bottom when both of those things directly reflect on his coaching. He needs to man up and take more responsibility for the things that happened, take measures -- whatever they may be -- to make this a stronger team physically and mentally. He needs to find leaders and recruit difference makers.

In all honesty, he needs to do a lot to save his job.

But this is still HIS job. We're still fans of the program HE is leading. And these former players with their mouths open and brains closed need to realize that in this world of noise where every voice is heard and every ear can listen -- the ears of recruits, of coaches, of current players, of administrators -- every ill word spoken can further damage the program they want restored.

My words can't do that. Theirs can. The disgruntled voices of many former players are heard throughout the country. Why can't they understand that the reason we're in this place as a program is because of all the change that has happened, all the wrong decisions made? This -- what we're experiencing now -- is the fallout.

Was Dooley the best Tennessee could do two years ago? I don't know, but he's what we did. And, for better or worse, we're stuck with this regime at least one more year. Anything less would spiral Tennessee football further into an abyss. We only thought we saw the bottom on Saturday ...

These past two days have been difficult with which to deal. Multiple times, I've sat in front of a computer screen with thoughts about what just happened on Saturday on my mind. Every time I tried to write, the words that came out were hateful, even irrational. Every time, I dragged my cursor over everything I'd written and deleted.

These are bad times, awful times for our program. We have more questions than answers, and there are reasons to worry about how long -- if ever -- it's going to take us to get back to where we think we belong. That's heavy stuff for any fanbase. Any word spoken or typed in moments of irrational anger or disappointment can be looked back on and regretted.

If only our former players realized that, too.

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Speak of the devil...

the KNS editorial staff is piling on too now. They invited Bob Gilbert, of Linda-Bensel Meyers fame, to write a guest editorial slamming Dooley.

They have now surpassed everyone else in the race to become the worst hometown newspaper in college sports. And unfortunately Jack McElroy’s head is inserted so far up his own bum that he sees any criticism of his writers as validation.

by Caban on Nov 28, 2011 2:21 PM EST reply actions  

I can't even bring myself to a Knoxville media outlet website...

…or even a message board.

RTT is the closest I can come tennessee football right now, and even this is kinda depressing. I wish I had the ability to find some humor in losing to a team that we’d beaten 26 straight times, and in one of their worst years ever. I’m still drawing a blank.

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Nov 28, 2011 2:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

I'll be able to get back on the humor piece saddle at some point

A week? Two weeks? I’ll play it by ear.

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Nov 28, 2011 3:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Perhaps

We should do more Skyrim pieces? ;)

BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." -John Heisman

"Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach". -Woody Hayes

by Joseph Stanley on Nov 28, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Today in Skyrim:

haven’t had a chance to play. Yesterday, on the other hand, sucked. I’ll try this quest! LOL NO DRAGON. What about this one? LOL NO DIFFERENT DRAGON. Oh, well what about this underground one? Yeah sure LOL NO HIGH-LEVEL UNDEAD OUT OF NOWHERE.

by Chris Pendley on Nov 28, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

There's your post idea

Tennessee football 2011 as a [scene?] from Skyrim.

Chief Editor, Rocky Top Talk. Chief in Charge of Woo, Gameday Depot.

by Joel Hollingsworth on Nov 28, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

A Skyrim-themed article in the MSP book next year

LOL

If I hit a hole-in-one on this grand slam the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

by jasonkylebates on Nov 28, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Kentucky was clearly a dumpster fire

But they’ve had several raging infernos over the year. It’s a bold statement to say this was one of Kentucky’s worst years ever.

Tennessee fans roll their eyes when I talk about Vandy, Vandy fans become ill when I talk about Tennessee.

by VolnVA on Nov 28, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

It is a bold statement

But then try to think of a season where they were definitely worse. I can’t. I’ve only been following the team for about a baker’s dozen years, but I can’t recall a worse version of Kentucky.

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Nov 28, 2011 3:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Allow me to submit

1994, 2000, 2001 (where a 2-9 team almost derailed the Vols on their way to a NC [we can avoid discussing the obvious, obviously]), 2004 (where a 2-9 team almost beat the SEC East winning Vols), and 2005 as Kentucky teams that were worse than this one.

If you want to jump in your way back machine, try 1982. Also, in 1981, a 3-8 UK team beat a 8-4 UT team. Do any of these make Saturday any better? Of course not…just a little perspective. (Note: I find this guy’s work to be pretty accurate and he has a lot of historical scores…check him out)

Tennessee fans roll their eyes when I talk about Vandy, Vandy fans become ill when I talk about Tennessee.

by VolnVA on Nov 28, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Forget about UK...the 96 loss to Memphis is way worse than the Kentucky loss

We’re just not very good this year, that ’96 team had no business even playing close to Memphis in ’96. That was truly embarassing. For me, Saturday simply put the period on a lost season where it looked increasingly like a bunch of youngster who just collectively hit the wall. Shut it down and come back next year.

by phil g on Nov 28, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

2000 and 2001 had Jared Lorenzon...

and a puncher’s chance against anyone.

I know the 1994 team had Moe Williams starting a TB… he ended up having a 10 year NFL career, but other than that don’t have much info.

Seriously though, if this year’s Kentucky team is even comparable to those teams… then it’s the same as losing to any of those teams when they are starting one of their mediocre WRs at QB.

by Caban on Nov 28, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

this year's defense was what won it though

and they do have some legit good players on defense.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Man, Leonard Little ...

Just spit the troof on Treece.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 2:59 PM EST reply actions  

what'd he have to say?

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Just basically that we haven't really given him enough time

And at some point, the players have to make plays. He elaborated much more and said it much more eloquently than that, but that’s the gist.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Keep your heads up

You guys will bounce back. We will bounce back. College Football is at it’s finest when UF and UT are battling it out at the top of the SEC. Dooley seems like a good person. Next season should be a lot better for both sides.

MATT freakin ELAM!

by Gators1 on Nov 28, 2011 3:05 PM EST reply actions  

its*

MATT freakin ELAM!

by Gators1 on Nov 28, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Classy post

Thanks.

(I still hate you guys)

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Nov 28, 2011 3:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

“I still hate you guys”

hahaha. Awww c’mon. That made me laugh tho.

MATT freakin ELAM!

by Gators1 on Nov 28, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

don't really hate...

Except for 1 week a year. BTW, congrats on Tebow’s winning in Denver. Know a lot of UF alumni are huge Tebow fans still.

by falconnuke on Nov 28, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm a converted Tebow fan

I’m soooo sick of condescending football announcers/pundits bashing that guy because he doesn’t have the skillset of a traditional “pro-style” QB. Like, who is this news to? The guy isn’t Dan Marino or John Elway. He’s never gonna be Dan Marino or John Elway. He doesn’t have that skillset, but he does have a skillset. So let the guy do what he does well. Is it a federal crime to run a non-traditional offense?

And I think Tebow has handled all those condescending questions with a great deal of class. Me personally? I might have punched Shannon Sharpe in his horse face. Did y’all see that interview?

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Nov 28, 2011 3:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

it was pretty brutal

but every time Tebow steps onto the field, the only thing that goes through my mind is the song “All I do is win”

by falconnuke on Nov 28, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. I support him. I would love to be able to go out to Denver for a weekend and watch a game if I get a chance. I’ve never followed the NFL at all, but now I find a place to go to for 3 hours on Sundays to watch the Broncos play. He’s fun to watch, no matter what your views are on the school that he attended for College.

MATT freakin ELAM!

by Gators1 on Nov 28, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

You beat us four years in a row, you earn my respect (same with Wuerffel)

I find it much easier to watch Tebow when he’s not standing next to Urban Meyer

by Will Shelton on Nov 28, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I definitely did appreciate your comment

But it’s like Winston Wolfe said in Pulp Fiction: “let’s not start sucking each other’s…..”

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Nov 28, 2011 3:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Haha. True.

MATT freakin ELAM!

by Gators1 on Nov 28, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

. . . lollipops

he said “lollipops”

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I was actually going for HIMYM

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, I followed

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with Kidbourbon

Very Classy Post. Read a couple from a KY fan in earlier posts. I always appreciate back and forth with fans with something intelligent to say and not just ridiculing things. Hate the year its been in the East the past couple but I think the ship will right itself next year. Good Luck in whatever Bowl you play, and next year. Course I still hate FL too. But nothing like the hatred I have for AL. LOL

by docrok on Nov 28, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

One thing that does make me laugh

Is the honey badger youtube clip. I think I could watch that thing 100 hundred straight times and it would be no less hilarious on the last viewing than it was on the first.

“Honey Badger don’t care. He takes what he wants.”

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Nov 28, 2011 3:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

One of the funniest things ever.

“He don’t give a ish,t. He takes what he wants.”

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Who's fault is it really?

Those of you that are thinking the sky is falling need to get a grip. Especially the players that are saying they are done, well if you’re done then pack your boom box and get out of Knoxville. We should be enraged that players have been tweeting about how they are done and how they quit on Dooley, they just don’t get it, they quit on themselves and their teammates. I say they should identify who they are and be given a quick escort right out of town. See if another program want’s their loser attitudes and lackluster effort. I don’t care how good of a player they are if they can’t be a good team member then they are worthless. Coaches don’t win or lose football games, players do! Read this close if you are a current VOL player, IT IS YOUR FAULT! Suck it up you little cry babies or get the hell out of town. Get in the weight room, work on your skills, show up to practice and make a damn effort! This current group of players has every reason to be embarrassed, this is your mess and if you aren’t man enough to clean it up then go home to your mommas with your pants hangin below your butts and let those that do care about what it means to be a VOL …fix it. Think about it you little babies, when you first said this year "man coach is this or coach is that" you were the problem! If you’re a senior and you condoned this kind of behavior from your fellow team members then good riddance I can’t wait for you to leave! Look in the mirror you know who you are, yes you were the problem!

by Lefturn34 on Nov 28, 2011 3:26 PM EST reply actions  

You know you're pretty much talking to yourself, right?

“Especially the players that are saying they are done, well if you’re done then pack your boom box and get out of Knoxville.” Like who, exactly?

Really, there’s like a whole site for trolling. It’s called the GVX comment board. Run along now.

by _trey_ on Nov 28, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

That explains all the weird looks I've been getting.

"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"

by TennesseeTyrants on Nov 28, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Epic reference

Official MCM Hater!

At least Lane Kiffin beat Kentucky

by gramsey712 on Nov 29, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

nice

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 29, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Brad, I'm a little concerned about this
“Since losing 10-7 to Kentucky on Saturday, ending another forgettable season, we’ve listened to departing seniors Tauren Poole and Austin Johnson talk about how the team quit on Dooley, didn’t want to be out there or about how some of the younger guys only care about stats. We’ve seen Justin Hunter tweet something about being “done” and tried to read into the words of a 19-year-old that may mean absolutely nothing. We’ve watched Da’Rick Rogers get in a twitter battle with our fans."

I know everybody is mad/hurt/emotionally devastated/wantstostabthemselvesinthefacewithafork, but can we try and limit going over and over stuff that’s going to blowback into attacks on players? All the players above were making off-the-cuff expressions of frustration, and adding anything to the pile-on (see above) isn’t super helpful, I think.

Seriously, we’re like the last beacon of civility here.

by _trey_ on Nov 28, 2011 3:48 PM EST reply actions  

Are we supposed to pretend it didn't happen?

One of the things I like about this site is that we can discuss things civilly, all things. If we are going to start only talking about happy things, then there will be a lot less football discussion for a while.

Lou Brock loves Lamp.

by birdjam on Nov 28, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

No, and I know the point of the article is to point out that the former players talking crap aren't helping

But:
Poole did not say “the team quit on Dooley.” Show me a quote. That’s flamebait.
Johnson’s full quote:

“This team is young and there’s too many guys that it’s all about them, their stats and stuff,” Johnson said. "As long as they come together as a team, there’s some bright futures ahead of them.
“We didn’t have a good week of practice and I could see it in the guys. People were like ‘Well, we might not go to a good bowl game’ and stuff like that. That wasn’t it. We wanted to go to a bowl game, period. It didn’t matter what bowl game it was.”

Which is vague and mostly just sounds frustrated and sad. It’s really unclear who the “people” he’s even talking about are.

Da’Rick didn’t get into a “twitter war,” he (pretty mildly) rebuked a couple of idiots who were senting him way, way, way out-of-line tweets. The Hunter tweet is cryptic, and also flamebait. In any case, losing a horrible, horrible game is no excuse to turn the words of some sad, frustrated players into gristle for garbage like the above:

Think about it you little babies, when you first said this year “man coach is this or coach is that” you were the problem! If you’re a senior and you condoned this kind of behavior from your fellow team members then good riddance I can’t wait for you to leave! Look in the mirror you know who you are, yes you were the problem!

by _trey_ on Nov 28, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't quote Poole.

Poole’s exact quote was something along the lines of players not wanting to be out there. If you want to argue semantics, that’s getting petty. Not me.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

No, but you paraphrased enough to give gristle to stuff like Leftturn above

I’m really just worried here about people projecting their own frustrations onto some brief, frustrated comments by players and piling onto a bunch of kids who I’m pretty sure are already devastated.

by _trey_ on Nov 28, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I understand your concerns, trey

But my points were that is exactly the things that former players are taking as intro fodder into their own soapboxes to lobby that A) Fulmer should have never been fired or B) They hate the way things are in the program.

The point was to state the things we’ve endured since Saturday, how we could have reacted to every little negative thing on this site but refused to do so, and how some former players and other media outlets are taking them and twisting them into a big, huge deal like we’re a sinking ship.

They’re twisting reality and impacting perception. Hence the point of the post.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

To some extent, isn't that the nature of communication?

Feelings give words which are heard and interpreted by someone. That happens, and I’m betting everyone’s frustrated right now. The danger is in the spiral effect.

by Chris Pendley on Nov 28, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

And I'm trying to thwart the spiral

In the midst of mild (and here comes a stronger word than I want to use here since trey and I are having a civil conversation) accusation that I’m contributing to it.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Bad description on my part.

The Great Wall of Text contingent are going to find something to be mad about, whether or not we’re doing anything to fuel said fire.

by Chris Pendley on Nov 28, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, no. Just a misunderstanding on my part.

I just want my intentions to be clear on the above post. So, I wanted to clarify down here.

We’re all good.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, c'mon

We’re totally on the same page here, man. All I was trying to say is first glance over the article, thing that stuck out was this:

Since losing 10-7 to Kentucky on Saturday, ending another forgettable season, we’ve listened to departing seniors Tauren Poole and Austin Johnson talk about how the team quit on Dooley, didn’t want to be out there or about how some of the younger guys only care about stats. We’ve seen Justin Hunter tweet something about being “done” and tried to read into the words of a 19-year-old that may mean absolutely nothing. We’ve watched Da’Rick Rogers get in a twitter battle with our fans.

This is all stated as established fact, and is a little panic-inducing. The thing is, it’s really phrased about the worst, most panic-y way you could look at those quotes. The rest of the article is devoted to how crap comments by former players are not helpful. I think it’s fair to point out that there’s no evidence that current players (who actually have a connection to the program) are nearly as dire.

Anyhow, I’m sorry if I’m being nitpicky. I know I’m a bit touchy, and I think everybody’s on edge, and I’m not trying to start crap- promise.

by _trey_ on Nov 28, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

/pounds coffee

Nope. Not on edge. Not in the slightest.
/deletes 500 additional letters out of this post

by Chris Pendley on Nov 28, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

There's never a reason to apologize to me

I’m simply clarifying my points and the reasoning for my phrasing.

We’re on the same team here. My blood pressure is down right now. I know I’m a volatile personality, and there seems to be something in every one of my columns that somebody takes offense to.

All of that is fine. I’m a big boy (quite literally). I just want it to be known my intentions. That’s the only reason why I’m defending my words. Nothing more, nothing less.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

By the way, the "panicky" ways to look at that?

That was written that way by design. It was to establish the way things can be construed and misconstrued and how things can be taken and twisted.

Maybe I shouldn’t have grouped Austin Johnson’s comment with Tauren’s. They were both outspoken, but only Tauren discussed openly that people didn’t want to be out there.

Also, my access to other things probably color the way I write things. Not everything said in that locker room or two reporters were written publicly. To take some of the comments that made it to paper and draw the above conclusion is a bit of a stretch. To take the quotes said on and off the record after the game and draw that conclusion isn’t a stretch but an almost a word-for-word quote.

People take postgame comments and panic about them or draw outlandish conclusions unnecessarily. Or, they take things said and call into the radio and trash our program.

It’s all detrimental. But we’re talking semantics now, so I’ll shut up.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

FYI, trey

Feel free to point out any inconsistencies or questions you have with anything I write.

Any criticism, constructive or otherwise, will make me a better writer.

And I love this site and appreciate what it stands for. I just don’t want to feel like I’ve got to couch my opinions on here, ever, and you weren’t even remotely saying that.

I’m almost too defensive sometimes because I think I’m trying to fit in, when a lot of the things I say stick out.

Sorry for being so argumentative.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

oh, no sweat

Also, I’m glad you don’t think I’m wanting you to couch or soften your opinions about this or anything else on here, cause that is one thing I certainly ain’t aiming at.

by _trey_ on Nov 28, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

That's cool, and makes a lot more sense

I didn’t know you had off-record info. I just hate it when some throwaway comment from a 19-year-old gets spun into “DOOLEY HAS LOST THE TEAM RABBBLERABBLERABLLE”

by _trey_ on Nov 28, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

he said that we got worse in all three phases of the game this year

guess somebody doesn’t count defense as one of the phases of the game.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

flagged

for repeating anything out of Clay Travis’s mouth

by _trey_ on Nov 28, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Actually, one thing I noticed preseason that I think hardly anybody discussed

was that Dooley’s real improvements at La. Tech Mostly came in the defense. The offense marginally improved, but the defense was leaps and bounds better by the time he left. Just thowin that out there.

by _trey_ on Nov 28, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I've not read it...

and please someone come and hit me over the head with the Orange Dog if I ever read anything of his again. He is the face of Whiny Baby Generation.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Nov 28, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Easy

I’m probably the same age as that guy. Roughly.

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Nov 29, 2011 9:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Age...

has nothing to do with it. It’s the attitude.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Nov 29, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Save your blood pressure.

Stop following that troll.

"Send lawyers, guns, and money; the shit has hit the fan."-Warren Zevon

Tickle my Twitter

by BelmontVol on Nov 28, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I wish I didn't have some of this info, too

Because it either makes me look like I have a high degree of self-importance (couldn’t be further from the truth) or makes me sound like I have a secret that I just can’t tell everybody else.

Really, I probably need to quit asking all my old journalist buddies who still cover the team what is happening behind the written words. These days, it just depresses me. I try to look at things with orange-colored glasses, but I’m worried about the state of this team.

I’m rooting for Dooley to get things resolved. Long way to go, but he has the make-up to do it. I was probably unfairly emotional toward his coaching inefficiencies after South Carolina. I’ve just got to be patient, even through my concerns.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that sounds a little masochistic, man

Honestly, football teams at this stage are about two steps removed from 9th grade sleepovers. If there wasn’t a huuuuge amount of grumbling/gossip/blahblahblah from a Tennessee team with a losing record, I’d be concerned.

by _trey_ on Nov 28, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Trey, there are players who think others quit out there

That is a fact. None of this is flamebait. I assure you.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't doubt that.

But “sources say…” is pretty shoddy, an I think the standard for this thing should be higher, considering we’re talking about a bunch of young kids and some guys who just lost the last game of football they’ll every play.

by _trey_ on Nov 28, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

WE

are not talking negatively about them. Matter of fact, I’m wanting folks — our former players, etc. — to cut them some slack.

We’re mostly adults here. If I need to use current, reported events to make my points, I’m going to do that. I cannot control how some choose to react in the comments section.

I’m not going to disguise my opinions or soften my language to guard against there being a trollish comment or two. Come on, trey. That’s not my job, man. It’s my job to make points. And I’m getting nit-picked for a line that set up my point about people needing to lay off the program during this highly emotional time.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

can we just keep talking about Malik Jackson?

can we maybe just tell him that he doesn’t need the NFL and we need him back as a GA? One of the very few guys in the postgame interviews who talked about it being a blessing to get to suit up for Tennessee. We need that attitude to spread.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

he, also, by the way

was extremely complimentary of Coach Dooley and is convinced that we’re going to have a big year if some of the guys can come together as teammates

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree. I love Malik

Heck, I love all those guys. They were just frustrated. Still, the point of the article is other former players or fans can take things that were said and run with it and turn it into a crapstorm of controversy.

I cannot tell you how many fans of opposing teams have sent me the Tauren Poole postgame quote and turned it into “TENNESSEE IS CRASHING AND BURNING!! HOW CAN YOU STILL SUPPORT DOOLEY!!” It’s sickening.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember once being a freshman on a DII soccer team

we had never had a winning season in school history, but my freshman year, we finished 9-7-2 (3-6-2 in CVAC play). On the bus ride home from a loss to the conference’s #2 seed Belmont Abbey, we learned that the current 9th place team had taken #3 Mt Olive (yes, like the pickles) to overtime. We were sitting in 8th, and our invitation to the (eight team) conference tournament depended on that result.

I didn’t play much, and I had a 10 page English paper due two days after the prospective first round road game, which would require a Wednesday evening bus ride to #1 Queens. I have to admit, I was silently pulling for Barton. They scored, they got the last spot, I got to go home and go to sleep after a long, long season.

So I get it. I understand that kind of emotional reaction. And I don’t think it necessarily means that Dooley is in over his head. I think it means that we have a team full of guys whose heads aren’t where they need to be, and that’s kinda concerning. If we get them where they need to be, next year could be special. If we don’t, next year could be the end of a short era.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly...very good post

It’s quite well known that Freshman and to some degree even Sophomores hit a wall, physical, mental, emotional, at some point in the season, it is just inevitable. Now take a roster that is highly dependent on a bunch of these Freshman and Sophomores, toss in a brutal, brutal schedule and key injuries to players who would have probably been the strongest on field leaders and it is not shocking that the team, collectively, not necessarily individually, ran out of gas. And it is even conceivable that the answer for these youngsters is to hang it up, focus on school, get healed physically and mentally and get back into S&C program even if that is contrary to Seniors’ and fans’ desires. It really might be in the whole scheme of things a blessing in disquise that this team isn’t going to a 3rd tier bowl this year.

by phil g on Nov 28, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll even through Seniors out there

Your senior year, you consider the success you and your team have had throughout the years. if you haven’t had the success that you wanted, that can be pretty depressing and at some point after a tough loss, you might be mentally ready to just hang up the boots. I know that happened to me in DIII track.

by falconnuke on Nov 28, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think I said anything negative there; how is it piling on?

All of that is factual. It happened. There were stories about them. Reports on that stuff. I also didn’t pass any judgments on any of those players. I’m not knocking the seniors for calling it like they see it or knocking the youngsters for being reactionary.

I’m simply trying to tell our fanbase not to get too caught up in the emotions of 18-22 year old kids. If you’re a fan of UT, you’ve seen these things happen, and you’ve read about them.

There’s no reason to be “concerned” about what I wrote. I’m trying to keep folks from being “concerned” about those things mentioned.

The real reason for concern lies in whether we can get this thing right, not in how they reacted to a loss.

Thought that was clear. Come on, trey. We’re on the same side here. I’m not going to put kid gloves on when I talk about this. We can address real-life concerns and maintain civility.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it was a good post

I had my differences with you when I thought you were piling on Dooley after the SC game. I don’t think you’re doing that here only raising the issue that former players are pissing in the UT well and it’s fouling the waters. These are probably a lot of the same players who were so vocal and took out a one page add in support of Fulmer in 2007.

BTW, I agree with you on the what if scenario had Fulmer not been fired. Yes we’d certainly have a better record than 5-7 which is mostly NOT Dooley’s fault but certainly the program would still be floundering about a spot or two above mediocre or worse given this schedule. Remember Fulmer had two seasons in his last four this bad with a much more talented roster.

by phil g on Nov 28, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Great post Brad.

Couldn’t agree more. Negativity breeds negativity and it is very hard to get stopped.

I’m as disappointed as the next guy over this season, but I honestly don’t think a change of the head coach is the answer. That would just make things worse in my humble opinion. I’m in agreement with the “at least one more year” crowd.

Not an expert by any means, but I’m not seeing the current situation overly difficult to fix:

Offense: Run blocking and a return to UT hard-nosed football at the line of scrimmage. The RB’s didn’t have anywhere to go 90% of the time this year. A ground game would open-up the passing routes and I do have confidence in Bray and the receivers. They looked unstoppable to me in the Cincy game.

Defense: Improved this year. Wilcox is doing a much better job than Chaney. They can get the opposing offense off the field, provided they aren’t on the field ALL GAME LONG because UT’s offense can’t manage to get a first down. They sometimes appeared to give up after the 3rd or 4th stop, which is a problem.

Special Teams: Am I the only one with a feeling of impending doom any time I see Palardy trot onto the field, or when UT is about to punt? These kickers were highly touted, but dang this needs to be fixed. I saw a great spark in the return game when Devrin Young came onboard, but that seems to have fizzled as the season progressed. It looked to me like folks lost heart in blocking for him. Slow motion and in some cases just avoiding blocks.

If it takes replacing Chaney or hiring an OL or RB coach I’d be all for it. We have to run the ball, and if we do, I think we’d see improvement everywhere.

Am I over simplifying here? A running game and some tweaks/better effort in special teams. Continued growth on the defensive side and we’re winning more games.

by LPVOLS on Nov 28, 2011 4:29 PM EST reply actions  

I'd rather bring in a co-OC than jettison Chaney.

Our pass game is incredible. Let’s not lose that in order to obtain a pass game. Heck, Tulsa was pairing Herb Hand with Malzahn as an influence; there’s no reason it can’t work elsewhere. My concern, as always, is practice time, but that takes more than a comment to elaborate on. But it’s well noted.

by Chris Pendley on Nov 28, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

can we get a RB coach/co-OC?

or I suppose an OL/co-OC

I might not be opposed to either option

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I've never heard of a RB coach/co-OC

Seems like RB coaches tend to be younger guys who take on other responsiblities like a heavy recruiting load or special teams.

by phil g on Nov 28, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

we have a RB coach/regular OC this year

not that it’s really worked too well

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I think OL/co-OC would work best.

Constructing smart blocking schemes is 95% of the battle.

"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"

by TennesseeTyrants on Nov 28, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

co OC can work.

Look at all those good Titans offenses with Heimerdinger as the offensive coordinator.

He never had a technical co-OC, but he constructed the passing game and called the plays, and Mike Munchak always constructed the running game (behind the scenes, more or less) and produced 1000 yard rusher after 1000 yard rusher.

"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"

by TennesseeTyrants on Nov 28, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is why I like the Chaney/Mitch Browning combo or perhpas the Chaney/Larry Porter

Chaney certainly knows passing offenses but could use some help with the running schemes.

by phil g on Nov 29, 2011 5:59 AM EST up reply actions  

agree

I love what Jim Chaney did with the passing game, and that’s why I’m a little reticent to jump on the “CAN HIM NOW!” bandwagon. But we need some sort of running game coordinator or something, because that’s obviously not his thing. Whether it comes with title of co-OC doesn’t matter as much as whether we get it

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 29, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I know just the man for the job.

Phil Fulmer.

"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"

by TennesseeTyrants on Nov 29, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

honestly, if he didn't have baggage with the school

that might be the perfect hire

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 29, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus, if he does a good job, he could be Dooley's head coach in waiting.

"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"

by TennesseeTyrants on Nov 29, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 29, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Rumors floating around other forums are that Hiestand has already received his walking papers.

Also that the ex Memphis coach has been contacted

fwiw given the silly season we are now in

by phil g on Nov 28, 2011 4:46 PM EST reply actions  

Cue carnival music

I hate this time of year.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

somebody on VolNation just posted a summary of the rumors that have come out today

it’s ridiculous.

HC rumors: Dooley’s gone, Sumlin’s in (do not want, fwiw). Dooley’s out of the office, no one knows why. Dooley’s still here, nothing happened. No way in hell we can Dooley this year.

DC rumors: Wilcox out. Wilcox to take DC role under Chris Petersen at UCLA. Wilcox to take DC job at Oregon after their current DC takes UCLA job. Wilcox leading candidate for Washington State HC job. Wilcox not going anywhere. (note: each of these includes Sirmon paired with Wilcox. fwiw, if these two guys go, my expectations for next season drop significantly).

other assistant rumors: Hiestand gone. Hiestand here. Thompson big candidate for UAB HC job. Larry Porter candidate for UT RB coach. (fwiw, I want Larry Porter, and I don’t want Hiestand. Would like to keep Thompson around, but that’d be a hell of an opportunity for him)

misc rumors: Dave Hart pursuing Kirby Smart (not clear whether this appends HC rumors or DC rumors)

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

and that doesn't even include the FL98 rumors

including

*Hiestand gone (resigned)
*Joseph gone (fired)
*Hinshaw gone (fired)
*nameless assistant gone (resigned)
*Da’Rick and Rajion being problem children and not getting proper discipline from Dooley and causing divisions in the coaching staff.

silly season is right

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

self imposed exile for myself...

until the bowl games, with the exception of this site.

My health and sanity cannot possible handle whatever is going on at Volnation, Volquest and GridScape. Honestly though, I’d guess we wouldn’t lose anyone to another program until at least late December… but you could see Hiestand canned, although every day that passes without him being canned makes it less likely he will be at all.

by Caban on Nov 28, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Gridscape?

I thought VN, VQ, and 8th Maxim were it. Is there another?

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Nov 29, 2011 3:27 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

You know, there sure are a lot of people after our coaches, for a group that's so bad they need to be ran out of town.

"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"

by TennesseeTyrants on Nov 28, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions  

if anybody's opposed to our defensive coaches

they’re dumb. with the possible exception of Joseph

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Larry Porter = want

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

My gosh, me too.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess the reason I'm reasonably calm and not raging mad about this season is that I saw it coming

- when the 2008 recruiting class closed with such a thud
- when the 2007 class started hemorrhaging players
- when Kiffin bolted in the middle of the night
- when Kiffin’s ‘top 10’ class started hemorrhaging players
- when you looked at this year’s schedule
- when our best LB went down in summer workouts, when our best defensive player burned his last chance and finally when our best offensive player went down followed by our QB

Dooley’s crime was getting this talented, young and untested bunch to actually be competitive at times and teased us into believing he could actually pull out a winning record…I fell for it to. But in the end after a some reflection with George Dickel I came to the realization that this is exactly where this train was headed, anyone paying attention could see it coming like a huge hurricane, but all wanted, hoped we’d escape the certain destruction until it finally hit.

The other way to view this year…it could have been a lot worse.

Now Dooley better get this team to 8 wins next year or else my long suffering patience will have ended.

by phil g on Nov 28, 2011 4:57 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

Well, yeah.

Unfortunately, too many people think if they WANT something to be a certain way, well, by golly, it better be that way, or they are going to cry. It doesn’t matter if it’s unrealistic. I hate to be the grouchy old lady, but the problem is that, with many exceptions (Thank God), we are becoming a culture of babies.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Nov 28, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't agree that this train was headed for this particular bluegrass'd trainwreck

We have Tyler Bray. We have Da’Rick Rogers. We have an OL that is young, but that has also been together for two years. We have an okay but not great amount of talent on defense….but way way way way way more than UK.

So in spite of all the circumstances you mentioned, we really should have beaten UK by 3 touchdowns or more.

Take everybody on UK’s roster that ends up in the NFL, and in ten years or whenever their careers are over, calculate up how much they made over the course of their NFL career. All of them aggregated together. Make note of that number.

Does Tyler Bray make more than that in his first NFL contract? Or will have to wait until his second NFL contract before he exceeds the aforesaid UK aggregated career salary figure?

My point here isn’t that Tyler Bray should have won this game by himself. Tyler Bray is one of many many guys are on our team that are better than the guys on the UK team. Thus, my point is that all of the “considerations” you listed are COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT when you come to terms with the realization that we lined up against a vastly inferior team. A team we should have worked over. And we lost.

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Nov 29, 2011 3:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Not sure what future NFL earning have anything to do with the dynamics of that particular game and this season

Don’t disagree we ‘should have’ beat UK. What you’re dismissing are the unpredictable intangibles of dealing with an extremely young team that just endured a brutal schedule. I also assume you’ve watched college football for more than a few years and have seen a lot of unthinkable upsets. These are fairly young men, many of them, too many of them, one year removed from Mom’s cooking and big man in High School, they’re machines that a coach can just program and send out to automatically play up to their talent level. The older they get the more they’ll consistently play to their capability which means more predictable results. I doesn’t matter much how talented on paper your roster is, if your talented roster is heavily weighted with Freshman and Sophomores you will be vulnerable to rosters with less talented higher concentrations of upperclassmen. We should have won and we probably win this game 9 out of 10 times. This year given everything I’ve laid out that you dismiss out of hand factored into the one time. I don’t like it but I can understand it and move on. If inexplicable losses continue into next year than I’ll be on the bandwagon that we have a coaching problem.

Like I said and others before, this season was somewhat cast in 2007, 2008 and 2009. This isn’t pro football where you can go into free agency and sign some veterans to plug gaps or triad future for needs, as you know you live and die by recruiting.

by phil g on Nov 29, 2011 5:56 AM EST up reply actions  

It is relevant to the dynamics

Because we have more talent than them. Quite appropos that you used the word dynamics. I once got an A in dynamics. Or was it a B+? I don’t recall. And I don’t remember the specifics of the class either except that we had a really eccentric tiny little fella of a professor (http://www.engr.utk.edu/mabe/maesold/f&s/bio/bio_iannelli.html), and we learned about such forces of objects in motion. The NFL earning example was simply a way of saying that we are more talented than UK and do so in a way that disparaged UK. But as it spoke to talent, which in football is largely a function of size and speed, it spoke to on-field dynamics and why physics dictates that faster and bigger players will defeat slower and smaller players provided that the faster and bigger players are working together in an organized fashion. From this can we fairly conclude that our players were not working together in an organized fashion and thus the advantage given to our team by way of Newtonian physics was substantially undermined. For this, I must place the blame on coaching. I can see of nowhere else to place said blame.

Yes, upsets happen. Usually upsets happen as a result of one of two reasons: (a) lots and lots of fluky events conspire to adversely effect the better team (e.g. the better team loses 5 fumbles) or (b) the better team simply isn’t prepared to play.

I would feel better right now if I could blame the loss on (a).

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Nov 29, 2011 10:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

it was obviously (b)

but good coaches don’t necessarily have their team ready to play every single week, especially when the offensive leader of the team is 3 hours away. If Dooley did that, he’d be a really good coach. That he failed so spectacularly in this instance makes me worried, but it’s not enough for me to write him off right now

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 29, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

Am I concerned…hell yes

But there’s just too many variables in this mix to be able to point at one particular thing like the HC as THE problem which is why I’ll withhold angray ranting at Dooley until next year if warranted.

You just can’t point to talent on paper and say WIN…it’s why they play the games.

Since kidb has rejects ‘fragile’ and other non quantifiable explanations he’s left with only the judgement of potential talent as calculated by possible earnings differential and comes to the conclusion that the only explanation for the loss of the projected future superior talent to the inferior talent (btw I don’t disagree that our talent is superior all other factors not withstanding) must be the fault of coaching, otherwise his neat formula doesn’t compute.

by phil g on Nov 29, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

BTW that's my last post on this subject

Games over, season is over, Dooley will be back next year for better or worse (I think better until proven otherwise by next year’s results) and no manner of fussing about the details at this point will change any of that.

Here’s to Dooley closing strong with this class, making some adjustments to staff, Hunter getting back to full speed, and hanging on to Wilcox at least one more year.

Cheers

by phil g on Nov 29, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Let's see if I can do this without profanity.

Support Dooley, if only because there’s no alternative. Who are you bringing in? Look at Mack Brown’s record in his first two years as a HC: 2-20. Frank Beamer was below .500 at Virginia Tech until his NINTH YEAR. Not saying Dooley = Beamer but you need at least three years. Just close your eyes, take a deep breath, and imagine where we’ll be in a year. (NOTE: All fantasies of the future assume that we won’t have any headcases or serious injuries.)

We beat Florida, and split home games with Alabama and Arkansas. We’ll beat either TAMU or MU if they’re on the schedule. We’ll lose at Georgia because Aaron Murray owns us. No LSU, unless some funny business takes place with realignment. UK has to come to Knoxville. We’ll split games at SCAR and at Vandy. MAYBE they lose to NCST. At worst I’m thinking 8-4, which is where we would have been this year with a healthy Bray/Hunter. 10-2 is not beyond the realm of possibility, because Bama/Ark/UGA are the only games where I think we won’t have the most talent on the field.

Is that a pipe dream? Maybe. I am far from an optimist but even returning from an ACL injury, Justin Hunter is a once-in-a-generation talent. DAY-Rick is no chopped liver, and certainly THE BRAY is among the best 6-8 QBs in the country when healthy. We know the defense has a chance to be special. Their numbers reflect the potential. It all comes down to the O-line, surely they’ll improve next year.

"Send lawyers, guns, and money; the shit has hit the fan."-Warren Zevon

by BelmontVol on Nov 28, 2011 5:13 PM EST reply actions  

Took the words out of my mouth, basically.

I was probably going to expand on this more at some point this week, but yup.

by Chris Pendley on Nov 28, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to mention the fact that Fulmer had far exceeded the 10 year rule of thumb

10 yr rule: Unless they’re winning championships or are the architects of their program, coaches should be planning to move on after around 10 years, cough, cough, Richt. In this age fans tire of the coache’s routine and not much good comes to the programs that hang on to their icons well past their shelf life…looking at you Penn State and Florida State and Ohio State under Hayes all for different reasons of course.

by phil g on Nov 28, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

wasn't it James K Polk

who said that if after four years, you were ready to be the US President for another four, you weren’t doing it right?

There’s a parallel here.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

boom

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with the post

Following are the things I think need to happen for this team to hit 8+ wins next year:
- Bray and Da’Rick need to mature, grow up, commit to the program
- A bunch of guys need to take the next step in their development and performance: J Smith, Lane, Maggit, Johnson, Coleman, Moore, Gordon, Brewer, Tiny, Clear, Arnett, Fugate, Stone, Bullard, Palardy, Darr
- Offensive coaches need to revisit offensive philosophy particularly around the power run game
- Upgrade a couple coaching positions
- Dooley needs to self evaluate and improve
- a little luck in avoiding key injuries would sure help

I think all of these things are doable. If the players and coaches can get together and handle this properly this year could be a character and team building experience that makes them much stronger next year.

by phil g on Nov 28, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

REAP WHAT YOU SOW

“Father-figure coach Phillip Fulmer ", never should have been replaced, and if he was replaced he should have been replaced by David Cutcliff. You can place the blame of the downward spiral on Fulmer but he was never to blame. Everyone jumped the gun on COACH NEEDS TO GO. Well you got what you wanted and now its time to enjoy the benifits you have gained because of it. In all the years coach Fulmer was there we always made a bowl bid and most the time a major bowl bid. Well where did we go with Kiffen? All I need say is the city of Knoxville came very close to naming a sewer treatment plant in his name. Now along comes Dooly on his shining horse and is going to take us back to the “Fulmer” greatness we had before? What did you people think was going to happen when Fulmer was fired? As a football player its hard enough to find leadership on a team but when you have no father figure to run the ship the ship flounders and all is lost untill you find that leadership. SO REAP WHAT YOU SOW>

by VolsFanDan on Nov 28, 2011 5:23 PM EST reply actions  

Really? Fulmer?

I think his leadership is what declined throughout his career. Arrest numbers went up, and so did WTF losses.

And, while Cut could coach an offense, I’m still not totally convinced that he can recruit at a level appropriate for Tennessee.

This isn’t punishment for the sin of firing Fulmer. But things are getting worse before they get better

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

?

And what major college program doesnt have the arrest’s? As the blacksheep in the family I can tell you from experience that bad apples fall from good tree’s. Nothing against Dooly I think he did all he possable could, but on the same note I also seen plays on 4th and long that made no sense at all. I also believe that Cutcliff hired from the start could have kept the recruiting class going and kept those transfers and non committed to committing, he was Fulmers right hand, and new what the program needed and did not. I dont see Tenn going anywhere next year either, until players believe in there coach and until the fans do Tenn is heading down a long dark road.

by VolsFanDan on Nov 28, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I love Cut

but has he ever recruited well as a head coach?

And I’m not sure what nonsensical 4th and long plays you seen, but I just don’t think Fulmer was doing all he possable could at the end of his career

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I was actually around at that time...

and can assure you that there was a HUGE contingent of players that, if they looked at Fulmer as a “father figure”, it was one who they could sneak around with minimal consequences.

You couldn’t set foot on the strip in the mid 2000s at 2am without tripping over UT athletes.

I know firsthand of a petition handed to Fulmer to revoke some suspensions during the 2007 season under the threat of several players walking. They were disciplined, but it was absolutely time for him to go.

by Caban on Nov 28, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Lern 2 spel.

Fulmer needed Cutcliffe and Chavis is be competitive nationally. Yes he recruited well, but that also got us into trouble. There’s a reason it’s called the Fulmer Cup. And at the end, when we were losing to WYOMING, we had all the off-field issues with none of the on-field success. I like Phil; I really do. But it’s not 1995 anymore and Peyton Manning ain’t walking through that door.

"Send lawyers, guns, and money; the shit has hit the fan."-Warren Zevon

Tickle my Twitter

by BelmontVol on Nov 28, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a "to be" not "is be"

says the Grammar Nazi.

"Send lawyers, guns, and money; the shit has hit the fan."-Warren Zevon

Tickle my Twitter

by BelmontVol on Nov 28, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

The Flukiest Game Ever Played.

The prototypical “No Effing Way” game.

"Send lawyers, guns, and money; the shit has hit the fan."-Warren Zevon

Tickle my Twitter

by BelmontVol on Nov 28, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

26 point favorites...

which is actually surprisingly low.

by Caban on Nov 28, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

you're desensitized by the ridiculous inflation of lines that we've seen in the last 5-10 years

as big favorites have run up the score more and more. Also, it was away.

But, I mean, Boise opened as a 51 point favorite this week. 51!

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Well...

We were 53 point favorites vs. UNLV the same season.

by Caban on Nov 28, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

oh. oh I see

wow, lines above 50, man. Against non-FCS schools.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

we did manage to cover...

I remember nothing of the game though, other than that UNLV was awful.

by Caban on Nov 28, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

That was the first game while I was in college.

All my friends, more or less, went to UT. I watched on PPV and spent the 2nd half trying to spot them in the stands. 62-3.

"Send lawyers, guns, and money; the shit has hit the fan."-Warren Zevon

Tickle my Twitter

by BelmontVol on Nov 28, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions  

other crazy one...

We opened 0-6 in 1998, with game #7 at home vs. Memphis.

We were a 2 point underdog that game.

by Caban on Nov 28, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

88

I remember ’98 being a bit different than that

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 28, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know about that.

Nebraska, FSU, and Florida laid some serious beatings on people. Although none as bad as Oklahoma beating TAMU 77-0 in 2004. Without scoring in the 4th.

"Send lawyers, guns, and money; the shit has hit the fan."-Warren Zevon

Tickle my Twitter

by BelmontVol on Nov 28, 2011 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

SO YOU'RE SAYING WE'LL WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP IN 2 YEARS?

Awesome.

"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"

by TennesseeTyrants on Nov 28, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

So...

what do you think you’re going to reap with a bunch of cry-baby “I told you so”, would-a, should-a, could-a whining? What are you sowing?

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Nov 28, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

In addition to everything else already pointed out...Fulmer posted two 5-7 records in four years

Without any legitimate reasons to blame them on. He had his run and couldn’t sustain it much less build it back. I wish him the best of luck if he lands the Kansas job.

by phil g on Nov 28, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow

People still think Fulmer shouldn’t have been fired?

Really?

No no….seriously?

I’m being for real. Stop joking, man. You almost had me for a second.

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Nov 29, 2011 3:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

SOWING ? NOTHING YOU GUYS DID THE SOWING

what do you think Cutcliff could have done with such a QB? Patton did not have such a record as Brey when he first started. I live in VA. now less than 40 miles from Lane stadium I know the VT coach and have done work for him and at Tech as well. They didnt fire him when the going got rough and that is why he has record he has with them.

by VolsFanDan on Nov 28, 2011 5:43 PM EST reply actions  

Cutcliffe wouldn't be doing anything...

with Bray if he’d been the head coach. We’d have either ended up with Terrell Pryor or Tajh Boyd, and Bray would be at SDSU.

And that’s even making the absurd assumption Cutcliffe would considering coming to Tennessee after we just fired his best friend. He actually did shoot us down during the search where we landed Dooley, so I really doubt that his reaction would have been more positive if we tried to hire him before Fulmer had cleaned out his desk.

by Caban on Nov 28, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

What is the "you guys" thing.

Please explain, if you are capable.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Nov 28, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Levity anyone?
BEDFORD HILLS, N.Y. (AP) — For the second time this year, a G.P.S. device has been blamed for an accident involving a vehicle and a Metro-North Railroad train in this hamlet in Westchester County.

No one was injured.

The driver of the vehicle, Jose Silva, of White Plains, told the police that "he did what he was told" by his global positioning system, the authorities said.

A spokeswoman for Metro-North, Marjorie Anders, said Mr. Silva turned right as he crossed the tracks around 8 p.m. on Monday. He got stuck on the tracks and abandoned the car before it was hit by the train.

by Caban on Nov 28, 2011 6:34 PM EST reply actions  

ATTENTION: EDITOR'S NOTE

I removed Terry Fair’s name from the list of players. I just got off the phone with him, and Terry cordially explained that his radio show was simply an outlet for some of the disgruntled players to air their grievances.

He said he tries to keep his opinions off the air as much as possible because of his status as a former player and Knoxville radio host.

I told him I’d remove his name. We had a great conversation, and I certainly understand where Terry is coming from. Therefore, I’m just alerting you guys that his name is now gone where it was part of the original post.

Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.

Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!

by Brad Shepard on Nov 28, 2011 7:04 PM EST reply actions  

I think he gets a bad rap here

I thing he honestly wants UT football to do well and on his show he does say that he likes Dooley as a person, but since the nature of the show is a call-in show, the most vocal opinions are those that’re heard. And the most vocal opinions are always those calling for a coach’s head.

As far as some grievances he may have, well we as fans aren’t privy to a lot that goes on in the team, including former players trying to reach out to current players in order to give advice and what not.

by falconnuke on Nov 28, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Who came up with that face for trolls?

It’s creepy as crap, man.

(Am I trolling about trolling?)

Also, give Dooley time. I do hope the former players are accessible to the program in the future, however. And I’ll preemptively say that evidently Condredge doesn’t always return calls from former players wanting to come back and hang out. If I’m UT… I want dudes like Eric Berry and Al Wilson and Raynoch Thompson around so much that they start getting mail there.

by GhostDance on Nov 28, 2011 8:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I certainly am giving Dooley time.

I think I see what Hoop’s getting at, and far be it from me to not make the comment thread impossible to load on anything but a computer given the chance.

No offense. ;-)

by Chris Pendley on Nov 28, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

None tak…

by GhostDance on Nov 28, 2011 8:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I really want the former players accessible

Isn’t that half the point of the Vol for Life program? And if it’s a young team, wouldn’t it be a great idea to make the former players accessible so they can mentor the young players?

by falconnuke on Nov 28, 2011 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

This is super OT

But if they ever re-did The Goonies…I’d want to see that kid in it.

Truffle Shuffles errywhere.

by GhostDance on Nov 28, 2011 8:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

On a seemingly unrelated but completely related note

I’m brewing a beer in dedication to this season. It’s a peach IPA. a little sweet, but very bitter.

by falconnuke on Nov 28, 2011 10:33 PM EST reply actions  

If you can somehow manage

to brew it to where it punches you in the nuts and farts in your face then I’d say you can name it “2011 Vintage Vols IPA”.

by The Life & Opinions of Boone, Gentleman on Nov 29, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Comment of the Year

It has been nominated.

by GhostDance on Nov 29, 2011 8:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Peach?

I’d make it Orange, instead.

I’d buy it.

"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"

by TennesseeTyrants on Nov 29, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

well, there will be orange zest added for flavoring

orange as a powerful flavor would not end very well, but to be fair i’m using Cascade hops, which have a rather grapefruit flavor.

by falconnuke on Nov 29, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't love anything like I love a good IPA.

For IPAs, I’m a fan of the Stone Brewing IPA method. Nothing but hops, malts, and water.

Not that yours doesn’t sound interesting. I’ll try any beer once.

"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"

by TennesseeTyrants on Nov 29, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Just a thought.....

But has anyone else noticed since Fulmer left, the number of players getting arrested has decreased? With the Great Pumpkin, our win to arrest ratio was probably around 1 to 1.5 and with Dooley, I’d say it’s around 4 to 1 because all I remember is Austin Johnson’s drunken rampage on The Strip whereas with Fulmer, it was always a list! Maybe our fan base should consider that if Dooley really is going with more “high character guys”, it will take us longer to get up whereas if he recruited criminals-in-training, we’d return to glory faster. I’m okay giving Dooley some slack if he keeps his team out of trouble and has a more gradual return to glory than immediate satisfaction with people that rob a Pilot gas station and the only guy acquitted is the one that stays in the car because he’s too busy enjoying his reefer!

by jtferrell21 on Nov 29, 2011 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

LMAO

Quick, someone call a WHAAAA-bulance for all the self-distructing Vol fans. You played with fire when your former Krispy Kreme loving coach conspired with the NCAA to try and bring down Alabama and now you’re boo-hooing about getting burned. Live with it. How did that tearing Alabama down go by the way?

Give Dooley some support and stop all the whining – every streak comes to an end, get over it.

by mattfromKY on Nov 29, 2011 2:26 PM EST reply actions  

flag -> troll

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 29, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Leadership

I started seeing what looked like a high school attitude on the sidelines during the Alabama game. Bray and Hunter were in the mix but not focused in any way. After the Arkansas game Dooley pointed out that he was giving the wrong advice to Justin W. That was a bad sign that no one was leading. Tauren should’ve taken over that huddle but he struggled to deliver decisive runs himself.

I am just saying that there was no leadership from any of the kids on the team. Malik, maybe. Simms was good for leadership. He was serious and fun in the right mix. He just couldn’t make the throws — ever. Bray is a bit of a hot shot but in the QB position he needs to be a voice of reason and motivation, not a brash kid mouthing off or cut-throat-gesturing.

I believe the solution is in the sophomore class somewhere. One of these guys on offense and one on defense needs to step up and be what Nick Reveiz was last year (or how about an Al Wilson). Maybe one of the O-linemen will take charge, or Tyler Bray will grow up.

Ultimately Dooley must develop this in select personnel. The team needs characters to play leading roles. Every championship team finds one or two individuals shoulder’s to stand upon. We need our leaders, the faces of those whom we remember for next years success.

by artdude on Nov 30, 2011 3:40 PM EST reply actions  

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