2012 Updated Tennessee Football Schedule Discussion Thread
Well, here tis. The SEC yesterday released its updated schedule, and it appears very manageable on the surface for UT. What do you guys think? Predictions below. As always, get as in-depth as you want in your analysis.
Sept. 1 - North Carolina State (at Georgia Dome, Atlanta, GA)
Sept. 8 - Georgia State
Sept. 15 - Florida
Sept. 22 - Akron
Sept. 29 - at Georgia
Oct. 13 - at Mississippi State
Oct. 20 - Alabama
Oct. 27 - at South Carolina
Nov. 3 - Troy
Nov. 10 - Missouri
Nov. 17 - at Vanderbilt
Nov. 24 - Kentucky
5 months ago
Brad Shepard
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Comments
10-2
Sept. 1 – North Carolina State (at Georgia Dome, Atlanta, GA)
This not only should be a win but it certainly better be a win. Additionally I think it
will be a win. I am not sure what they return and quite honestly don’t care I see
this as another Cincinatti type game and TN should win.
Sept. 8 – Georgia State
No comment necessary I assume.
Sept. 15 – Florida
This is probably a game that history and most will disagree with me on but TN
SHOULD be favored in this game and should win. FL will be breaking in a new
QB and running back and they have yet to find a dependable threat at receiver
plus they will be learning a third offensive system in as many years and as TN
fans enduring the past 5 years we know how that is. Defensively I expect FL to
be very good, and I mean very good but I think we still score enough to win this
game.
Sept. 22 – Akron
Again should be a win here.
Sept. 29 – at Georgia
This game I think is where it gets interesting. GA should be very good, likely
picked to win the east. Another year in Grantham’s D and another year of
Crowell and Murray maturing. Since it is at GA I am going to go loss here due
how good GA should be, but it is Richt and they are never as good as they
should be.
Oct. 13 – at Mississippi State
MS State is a tough call. I have heard rumors Mullen has entertained other jobs
and Starkville is just a tough place to recruit to. But MS State has potential
Offensively, however I expected much better things from them this year and I
think TN wins even in Starkville.
Oct. 20 – Alabama
I think this will be a game. Probably a loss but if TN stays fairly healthy I believe
this is a game but a likely loss.
Oct. 27 – at South Carolina
Its Steve Spurrier and he is a very good coach despite the age! But I still think
SC will lose more than it can overcome with the loss of Jeffrey and several key
Defensive losses. So call I think this is a win
Nov. 3 – Troy
Another win
Nov. 10 – Missouri
First year in the SEC and facing that competition week in and out I think this late
in the season favors TN and also I just flat think TN is more talented than a
mid tier Big 12 team.
Nov. 17 – at Vanderbilt
Probably a tough game due to emotion and I think Vandy will be as good or
better offensively but not as good defensively.
Nov. 24 – Kentucky
The start of another streak.
Probably
Probably should have prefaced this post with my opinion on the team, as I think we will be good offensively and very good defensively. Offensively I think another year of Chaney’s tutorial over Bray will only make him better, Graham I believe will have an immediate impact on the runners and if they only gain 2-3 yards per carry thats an improvement, so it should not be hard to have an immediate impact. The line should be better and stronger! I know Thomas is a Senior but I just don’t think he will be able to hold on Tiny after a full spring and summer in the S&C program and in the program overall and Jackson improved the line as did moving Bullard to center. Defensively I think TN will be really good! Mo Couch really came on the latter part of the year and the experience of spring and summer will hopefully really allow him to blossom into what TN fans were hoping from him. Additionally the LBs should really be a strength for TN for the first time in several years. And the secondary will have experience to go along with their raw talent and that bodes well for a D-Coordinator. So……………………
lessee
*NC State. This isn’t the easiest out in the world, but they shouldn’t be as good as Cincy was this year. If we don’t win this one, we may be well on the path to a midseason coaching change.
*Georgia State. Win.
*Florida. They lose a lot in the skill positions, they’re bringing in a new offensive system, and it’s in Knoxville. If we’re ever going to beat them, now’s the time.
*Akron. Win.
*Georgia. These guys may be slightly loaded, although they do lose some offensive linemen. Only way we win here is if Richt has a typical high expectation season.
*Mississippi State. They’ve fallen back to the middle of the pack a bit. Like NC State, this is one of those games that we have to consistently win if this regime is going to take us anywhere.
*Bama. Would take a huge upset, as usual.
*Carolina. This one is plenty winnable, but I’d say Carolina is the favorite. Their schedule up to this point is brutal though (consecutive games against Georgia, LSU, and Florida), and they could be as beat up as we were last year.
*Troy. Win.
*Missouri. They had a pretty good team this year, but they lose a lot and are going on the road. In that category with NC State and Mississippi State. Gotta win these games.
*Vandy. We’ll see how James Franklin does in year two. Given the inconsistency at Maryland, I’m still skeptical. But even if he has a strong year, this still should be a win.
*Kentucky. There is no reason to lose this game. Even less reason than last year.
If we stay healthy, we’re looking at the strong possibility of 8-4 or 9-3 with a shot at 10-2. Falling below 8-4 means we’re not taking care of business in those modest favorite games, and it probably means we’re looking at a new coaching staff. Even Mike Shula went 10-2 in year three. And if Justin Hunter isn’t back 100% (or we’re snakebit again), I think we’re going to be looking at a new coaching staff.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 11:08 AM EST reply actions
5 wins SHOULD be guaranteed. 8-4 should be the target. 9-3 is optimistic and 7-5 disappointing.
If Glennon stays which he probably will, NC state’s offense could remain dangerous, but their defense sucks. Glennon is the real deal though and will be a pro when he leaves. TN should win that game although it might be a shoot-out. UF still has a pretty big talent/depth advantage all over the field outside of Hunter and Rogers and probably win a close game due to a couple ill advised throws. I’m not anywhere close to getting on the Vandy is actually good bandwagon and I think that’s an easy win next year. Kentucky, Akron, Troy, and Ga State are terrible. I dont know much about Missouri so I’d be afraid to predict but it is at home so maybe a win there. UGA and Bama are probably losses, and South Carolina will be a tough game that could go either way. With a healthy Lattimore and home field I think the slightest edge goes to USC. I just think TN is better than Miss St so that will be a quality road win for the vols. That’s 7 wins with 2 games that I consider toss-ups in UF and USC. In the end TN pulls out a win vs 1 of those teams to get to 8-4. One would hope that 1 close win is over UF and breaks the streak.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
you miscounted
you identified 8 wins, 2 tossups, and 2 losses (assuming I’m right to put your analysis of NC State and Missouri in the “win” column)
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
You're right.
Hmmm. I guess I’ll bump up the target to 9-3 with my opinions very similar to yours. I still will say that 8-4 should be considered respectable. I dont see 10 wins as that would take a lot more consistency and discipline than the vols displayed this year. So the target is 9-3 although I feel 8-4 is more realistic. Truth be told a lot of next year’s success or failure will ride on the maturity on the field and off the field of their leader and QB. Bray has great talent but I’m not comfortable with his leadership at this point. Bottom line, if he acts like a man and works like a man, the sky is the limit for this team.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 29, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Discipline
If TN again lacks the discipline you speak of on the field or off the field for that matter next year than we need to be doing coaching research now! Absolutely no excuse for a lack of discipline from what will be a majority of Juniors and sophmores. And no way a team with so many questions as FL has should be favored to beat TN especially considering TN will have a decided Offensive advantage.
TN will have a better offense than UF(or should anyway)
but UF will have the better defense.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 29, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
That analysis isn't particularly helpful
Our defense doesn’t play their defense.
Better question: will UF’s defense be good enough to prevent UT from scoring if we have a healthy Justin Hunter?
Better question 2: will UT’s defense be good enough to stop an offense that this year might be generously characterized as a train wreck and that will have a new QB and OC next year and no good wide receivers of which I am aware.
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 29, 2011 3:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm pretty sure I can answer question 2
we stopped them for 80% of the game last year, and 100% of their offensive production can be directly attributed to starting two true freshmen at linebacker.
With Hunter, that’s a game we should win. Only way we don’t is if they’re just still in our head
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
UF's defense will cause turnovers
especially when UT has little run game which allows them to drop 8. Also UF’s offense has been an absolute train wreck for 2 years now and still was able to get a W vs TN with a new QB and a new OC before. If TN finds a run game, its possible. If they rely on Hunter to beat FL, Bray will have 40+ pass attempts and will surely have a couple turnovers imo.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 29, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
I should also toss in
the way in which TN loses their games will have a lot to do with whether 8-4 is “respectable” as I stated. Losing 4 games by consistently starting the 3rd quarter flat should not be acceptable imo. 4 quarters should be demanded next season.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 29, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
i agree with this
8-4 or 9-3 if we stay healthy. if Dooley doesn’t have a winning record with this schedule he may not be wearing orange pants much longer.
10 wins or Dooley loses his job
This schedule is favorable. If we have 9 wins, that means Derek Dooley just lost 3 times in a row to South Carolina, which I’m fairly certain is a firable offense, if not a misdemeanor.
To be clear, the 10 wins or bust stance is what expectations and requirements should be…in my opinon. Some will argue 9 is enough, and I disagree. Some may even argue 8 is enough, and I vehemently disagree…and I would urge the proponent of such a position to become a fan of Clemson or NC State…I hear they have nice football programs.
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 29, 2011 11:30 AM EST via mobile reply actions
This isnt the South Carolina that we grew up with.
A tough game is the only thing that should be expected vs them at this point as their talent/recruiting has caught up with TN and their coaching as solid as its ever been. We have to face the fact that South Carolina is legit and looks to be staying that way. Also even though UF is down, they still consistently bring in better talent than TN year in and year out so that will be something that TN will have to overcome if they are to get a wins vs them this day in age. I agree with Senescence though in that they really have to take advantage of the coaching issues UF has right now and get a W while the getting is good. UF will not stay down.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 29, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
these days, losing to South Carolina three years in a row is something like losing to Georgia three years in a row
which we did from 2000-2002 and 2001-2003
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
I remember back in the days when we used to beat UGA 9 years in a row...
…it seemed normal. We were better than them. We were good. They were mediocre. When we played, we won. This was to be expected. And this actually wasn’t that long ago.
My ultimate point is that recalibration of expectations based on recent struggles is the enemy of the program. We’re Tennessee. We won a national championship. We’re studs. We’re big men on campus. We don’t settle for the under-the-radar girl who plays in the band but is kinda cute. We take home the prom queen.
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 29, 2011 1:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah, me too
and I agree with all of that. my question is how quickly to expect (or demand) being all the way back
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
My tune changed after the UK game
If you shoot for mediocre, be ready for bad as your backstop. Shoot for the stars. High expectations is the better option.
Do high expectations (by fans) make a difference? I think they might. Say what you wnat about the ridiculousness of Bama fans and their unbridled and unreasonable arrogance about their football program. But in the absence of that collective sense of entitlement, the school doesn’t back the money truck up to Nick Saban’s driveway like they did.
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 29, 2011 2:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Also, sometimes the other teams have something to say about it.
Team quality is not a zero sum game, but conference wins are.
by first and thom on Dec 29, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Nationally, team quality is a zero sum game
But, yeah, it seems like the SEC keeps taking numbers away from other conferences en route to world domination.
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 29, 2011 3:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I disagree
Nationally, there is a fixed quantity of wins. But team quality can improve drastically without a team capturing more wins if the other teams get better, too.
by first and thom on Dec 30, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Johnny is either going to Nebraska or Oklahoma
One’s loss is the other one’s gain.
I read your post three times and I have no idea what it means. Are you actually arguing that 120 teams will simultaneously get better? How? Are we now recruiting in different continents? Are we giving all the players really really good steroids? Are we now reverse drafting players from the NFL back into college? Explain to me how this works.
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 30, 2011 5:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You've got the presumption backwards.
Zero sum games require closed systems – taking from one gives to another. That’s very rare in the real world. Game outcomes are an easy example of a zero sum game (as long as the number of games remains constant). Every game is won or lost.
Talent is not a zero-sum game. Players can get better or worse across the board. Not every available kid gets signed, and not all the kids who get signed get developed, matched with a compatible system, disciplined, educated, monitored, and motivated equally (or optimally). Coaches come up with systems that are better or worse (both in the abstract and as compared with the available players). Training techniques change. Facilities improve (or degrade). Heck: a group of physically gifted athletes come along in one year who are better than their predecessors. Raw physical ability should average over large groups and long times (or at least show a stable trend), but it would be bizarre if every year had the exact same amount of talent available. More (or less) kids play football when they’re young, changing the experience available to recruit.
Lots of complex factors are at play, and there’s no way to justify as assumption that the over-all quality is exactly the same every year. Perhaps even more complicating is the fact that talent is not fungible: some players are more valuable some places than others.
And we haven’t touched the false scarcity of scholarships that brings in temporal variables and the ability of teams to plug in sub-optimal players. How can we say that talent is a zero sum game when a team sometimes has to make recruiting decisions like this: given that our most-desired player (a WR) just signed elsewhere, should we take the next-best available WR or use our last remaining scholarship on a more-talented OL who is not necessary because we already have depth? How teams make those decisions (and the partially-random results of those decisions) have a huge influence on team talent down the road.
And lots of these things feedback to influence other variables, making them impossible to isolate.
There is still competition for scarce assets like 5* players, but there’s way too many chaotic variables to say that talent is zero sum.
I’m not saying that 120 teams will get better or worse at the same time. What I am saying is that there is not a fixed pool of talent, and one team’s gain necessary (as in automatically and always) and always produces an exactly offsetting loss by the other team.
by first and thom on Dec 30, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would start to expect being better than average in the SEC
when the recruiting is better than average in the SEC. The teams with the best players win. People dont realize that its that simple much of the time. Its no secret why UF, Bama, and LSU have dominated the SEC lately. They have better players. Even UGA has been a little better on the recruiting trail as of late. We will know when TN is about to make a move in the SEC when they are at least in the top 3 or 4 in recruiting in the conference imo.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 29, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Then explain Arkansas
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 29, 2011 3:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Take as much time as you need
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 29, 2011 3:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not to mention Arkansas got smashed by the 2 teams
that smash them in recruiting.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 29, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Two things:
1) starting a comment with ‘not to mention’ leads me to believe I am not seeing another comment.
2) Your response doesn’t answer the question at all. .
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 30, 2011 5:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Arkansas had worlds more depth of talent than TN this year.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 1, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
There are exceptions but its easier to explain
LSU, Bama, and UF over the last decade.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 29, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
You aren't following
Of course great players result in great teams. I’m not questioning the importance of recruiting.
You said that we’ll be competitive with teams only when we can recruit with them. I directed you to Arkansas, who actually recruits appreciably worse than Tennessee and beats them by 40 or so. I think this fact substantially undermines your point. As best I can tell, Dooley could coach the ’85 Bears to 7 losses.
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 30, 2011 5:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Didnt TN lose a huge number of the recruits that
put them well above Arkansas in recruiting with the whole Kiffin debacle and then the Jackson thing? I agree with you, that TN should be competitive regardless in most cases if even they are out recruited. This season and last, however, there is no comparison to depth of talent between Arkansas and TN which is why they got blasted imo. It should be said that this isnt me defending Dooley, but rather pointing out that with the players on this TN team, even with an elite coach, they wouldve likely struggled.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
I see your Arkansas...
and raise you Bill Snyder at Kansas State. Or Tennessee’s 2005/06 basketball team.
Heck… I’ll throw in Ron Zook, Curley Hallman, and Gerry DiNardo as examples of talent meaning nothing if your coaching is terribad.
and Florida...
wasn’t exactly cleaning up when Spurrier first started winning. Generally great recruiting follows winning.
Winning helps a lot no doubt, but location helps just as much imo.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
10 wins before or after bowls?
And if before, does he have to win the bowl game?
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Dec 29, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Before
No, I don’t think he has to win the bowl game.
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 29, 2011 1:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Really?
Improving 5 wins is tough. Figure that Tennessee can flip the Kentucky game pretty easily and gains at least one win for switching Arkansas/LSU for Miss. St./Missouri. Getting two wins out of the schedule swing is certainly doable: we know what the Western Bulldogs can do, and we can guess that Mizzou won’t be blowing the doors off in year 1.
Vandy isn’t going anywhere. Franklin’s team looks to be about as good, if not better, than last year. Vandy used to be an automatic W; now they’re a worrisome game; and they could easily become a real challenge. Likewise, NCST for Cincy is probably a push on the schedule – that game’s not automatic.
If UT can pick up three wins from the first paragraph and hold off Vandy and NCST, it still has to beat two of USC, UGA, and UF. All three should have excellent defenses, and at least two should have dangerous offenses. All three have more recruiting stars on the roster.
If you count the bowl (and assume a victory), UT only has to flip one of its games against the other good teams in the East. But it’s sheer guesswork about who that bowl opponent might be.
Ten wins is certainly possible, but I bet most people would take the under. Does Dooley really have to pull off that big of an improvement to save his job?
by first and thom on Dec 29, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Most Tennessee fans are setting the minimum at 8
the more convinced people are that he’s not a good coach, the higher they set the minimum. I’ve seen 9 and 10. But realistically, 8-4 will almost certainly save his job unless the losses are really ugly and/or he has a RichRod-style bowl game
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Nice Post
I am very close in my opinion to this. In my opinion with this schedule and the returning players 8 is not enough, I know though UT could not fire Dooley for 9 wins though I think it means in my opinion that he is not the caliber of coach of Les Miles, Bobby Petrino, Nick Saban or Steve Spurrier!
Les Miles routinely goes from being a great coach to a "lucky" coach year to year in most people's eyes.
The talent LSU brings in is much more consistent than Les’s x’s and o’s imo. I’m not sure how good Dooley is yet, but I know that big name coaches and wins matter to the best player’s in the country. I mean if you’re a recruit and Nick Saban, Les Miles, Bobby Petrino, Steve Spurrier, and Derek Dooley make a visit to your house, Dooley is instantly at a disadvantage. He might be a good coach in time, but the bottom line is the kids dont know him, and their parents dont either.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 29, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Chicken vs. Egg
LSU was atrocious in the 80s and 90s. By your stated logic, how was it possible for them to ever get good players? Great players gravitate towards winning programs, remember?
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 30, 2011 5:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Louisiana is a hotbed for talent.
LSU like an FSU or a Clemson will get players regardless of record due to location. TN needs the wins much more as most of the time they are trying to convince kids to leave home. LSU, FSU, Bama, Auburn etc are just asking kids to stay home and much of the time the parents are too.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
Auburn is a little different
because they’re #2 in the state. Auburn really has no built-in advantages that are greater than Tennessee’s. But your general point stands
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 1, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Miami is #3 in the state and are solid in recruiting and that with horrible looming sanctions.
Clemson and South Carolina also share a state and are both very solid. For Auburn being #2 in a state like Alabama still has advantages over TN as far as recruiting goes imo. Most of the time I would agree that being #2 in a state has big disadvantages, although I think South Carolina, FL, Bama, Texas etc are states where being #2 still puts you in the discussion with the nations most elite players more often than TN or at least the current TN I should say.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 1, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Florida is in a completely different league than any state other than Texas
being #3 in that state is better than being #2 in Alabama or South Carolina.
In a talented but not insane state like Alabama or South Carolina, I think the being #2 in-state and having good in-state talent kinda balance out to something roughly equivalent to being #1 in a less talented state
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 1, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Most cases maybe, but
not when compared to the states I mentioned as I think theyre in another stratosphere talent-wise than tennessee but I see what youre saying.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
'that's'
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 1, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
I can see 10 wins from this schedule, assuming a fully healthy team.
But I think we have to very seriously consider the fact that Justin Hunter might not come back at full speed immediately.
I’m reminded of Derrick Morgan of the Tennessee Titans. He tore his acl 4 games into the regular season last year, and he re-tweaked it in the preseason, and he’s struggled to get up to full speed all year.
Knock on wood, though. I really hope he comes back full speed, or I at least hope that we don’t need him the first 2 weeks and he’s back and ready for the Florida game.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Dec 29, 2011 12:59 PM EST reply actions
if he's not back at full speed
I genuinely think we’re looking at a coaching search next year. We don’t have anybody that can step in and do what he does. Hell, I’m not sure we have anybody who can step in and be a legit SEC starter
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I agree.
Especially now that Arnett is leaving.
IF he’s not back at full speed, this season becomes all about how well Bray can move an offense down the field without superior talent and how well our defense can make the jump from last year.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Dec 29, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
if he's not back at full speed
The season becomes about how well Chaney can game-plan around his loss (when given a whole offseason to do it) and Hiestand can teach run-blocking. It’s not unrealistic to say that Dooley is gambling his job on whether retaining Chaney and Hiestand is a good move. With a healthy Hunter, we might be able to just outscore teams even with average playcalling and poor run-blocking. If he’s hobbled at all, this will be the true test of CDD’s evaluation of his assistants.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
If he's not back at full speed
We’ll learn a lot about Dave Hart.
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 29, 2011 1:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And outscore???
Really, because I was thinking more along the lines that we would actually have a pretty good defense and only needed the Offense to be above average to win games!
I think we will have a pretty good defense as well
and that with a healthy Bray and Hunter, we can outscore most of the teams on our schedule. But without Hunter last year, how many times did we score more than one touchdown? That won’t cut it no matter how good our defense is
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Hunter or Not?
Hunter or not if the offense can’t score more than one touchdown even against the likes of AL we need a new coaching staff! And that’s with or without Bray in my opinion! Worley will be vastly improved and more mature and the running game should be the same! Again if not we just don’t have the right coaching staff
isn't that what I said?
if we don’t have Hunter, it’ll be a huge test of the coaching staff
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Is Rivera back?
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 29, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
yep
he’ll be a senior
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
He's a legit target, but I still agree
with your depth of talent argument at WR.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 29, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
I think we forget how good Rivera-Bray was early in the season.
That was a great combination. Rivera was an early-season threat, and he seemed to be on the same page as Bray.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Dec 29, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously???
All the touted receiver recruits we have brought in and the ones coming in and we don’t have a legit SEC starter???? Tell me this was a joke post! And don’t tell me that freshman can’t make an impact and start cause they do it all the time, GA’s best receiver this year was a freshman!
not a joke post
how many highly-touted receivers do we have on our roster right now? Beyond Hunter and Da’Rick? Can you come up with any number but zero?
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
(there's a reason we're looking to bring in five in this recruiting class)
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Technically
Arnett is still on the roster and he was the number 10 receiver in the country according to the post on him and he was pretty highly touted, Vincent Dallas was proven pretty good. Not to mention Drae Bowles and Pig Howard are both coming in and very well thought of receivers. Additionally I would like to believe that any player they are recruiting is SEC caliber! So yea they are there! If not then we may as well fire Dooley now! That is just illogical thinking in my opinion. One player does not make a team and this is Dooley’s third full recruiting class and they are apparently looking for space.
please
you and I both know that using Arnett in this argument is ridiculous. Dallas was a 3* and had how many catches last year? Two? Is he really good enough to be starting in the SEC as a sophomore?
And yeah, we’re trying to bring in a lot of good freshman. But until they get here, I’m not going to assume they’re ready to start their freshman year
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
How many
How many highly touted wide receivers play for AL and LSU? Not many teams have two receievers expected to be in top in the nation in the same year.
I said SEC starter, not top in the nation
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
I know what you said
I was pointing out that SEC Caliber does not mean the best player at his position in the country, and typically a team only has one really great receiver but TN has TWO! So the loss of one should not automatically relegate us to losses. The other receivers merely have to be adequate and with the experience gained by out players they should be more than adequate. And while not a true receiver I believe that Neal has taken over the slot role and impressed coaches there.
you're completely ignoring the question of depth
we all know Hunter and Da’Rick are good. But the question is whether or not anybody behind them is starter-quality. And we don’t know whether they are yet. We have a few good candidates in Dallas, Croom, and perhaps Pig. But we don’t know.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
I am not ignoring
I have stated that Dallas is SEC Caliber! Not every player for LSU AL GA FL or any other team is 4 or 5 star. There are more 3 star players on those teams than 4 or 5 star players check the rankings. 3 star players are considered legitimate Div 1 starter players with the time to develop of 1 – 2 years. And as I have stated I am sort of at a loss because I can not remember all the players recruited last year only recollecting the ones that actually played, including Dallas
what has Dallas done to make you think he's ready to start at the SEC level?
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
he made three catches last season
that’s enough to show he’s ready to be the starter?
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
And what
Has FL or SC’s future starters are capable of starting and beating TN??? SC replaces Jeffrey and FL replaces Demps Rainey and Brantley. And while Brantley did not do much he was the best of their QBs. Will SC replace Jeffrey, yes they will. Will he be as good, probably not but his replacement will be an SEC caliber player. Same with FL, only time will tell if the players are as productive!
And this is my point
That we have players its up to the coaches to develop them and make into stud players. Dallas was a freshman and he will have more time in the program to learn the offense and the routes!
yeah, it's up to the coaches
but how long does it take them? We have four freshman and one sophomore to work with. How long until the coaches find a starter in that bunch? Could be spring practice, could be 2013
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I have the same questions about Florida and South Carolina
but that doesn’t mean I don’t have them about Tennessee. And we haven’t shown we have a guy who can be a legit SEC starter if Hunter is down
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 29, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
There arent "more 3* players on those teams than 4 and 5* players"
Example… recruits taken/ 4* and 5* players taken from 2010-2012(current class)
UF-64/42 6 below 3*
Bama 78/44 6 below 3*
TN 73/27 19 below 3*
This illustrates the difference in talent right now. I couldve gone back farther. There is no comparison in the talent UF and Bama bring in vs TN. Even a team like LSU while bringing in about an equal number of 3* guys as they do 4* rarely even consider anything below that. 19 of 73 recruits in 3 years being basically unranked is where depth of talent comes into play in TN’s case.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 29, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
3 years in
TN is 3 years in to Dooley’s tenure and asking him to field a disciplined team that shows improvement is not asking too much! And in doing this winning 10 games with that schedule is not over the top thinking or raising the ceiling too high! The only games on paper that you can look at and say that a team will have more talent and experience than TN will be AL and GA. And I am allowing losses for those games! The rest of the games are winnable and suggests that coaching makes a difference. And at 2 mil per year he better be able to win 9 of those 10 match ups! Elsewise as TN fans we’re saying that we just want to be an average mid tier SEC team! And that is not what TN is!
I wanna kiss you right now
#nohomo
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Dec 29, 2011 3:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
optimism is a good thing...
…but let’s calm down here. NC State isn’t chopped liver, and when was the last time UT won a game in the Georgia Dome? It was the ‘98 SEC title game, right? That was a LONG time ago, folks. Florida has won however many consecutive over UT, including this year as a 6-6 team….you think they’ll be worse than that next year? South Carolina won 10 games this year, don’t lose all that much to graduation, and that game is in Columbia. Bama and Georgia are just light years better than UT, regardless of where the games are played. Vandy wasn’t exactly an easy out this year, and won’t be next year. Ditto for Mizzou. Look, before everybody jumps all over me (as you can tell from my screen name, I’m a Bama man), I’m not “trolling” or “hating”, I’m just pointing out that, while POSSIBLE, getting 10 reg season wins next year assumes that UT catches every imaginable break and has no injury problems whatsoever. Sure, it’s possible, but it’s a lot more likely that you’re just setting yourself up for major disappointment. Coming off 5-7 and losing to a terrible Kentucky team (with Randy Sanders as OC), seems like 8-4 is a MUCH more realistic goal.
plus...
..and I KNOW I’ll get jumped all over for saying this, but you guys (not YOU guys, just UT fans in general) talk about Bray like he’s Manning or something. Big difference…Manning won games against good teams. Tell me the best win that Bray has in his career….(cue crickets chirping)…I guess it’s Cincy, this year, right? That game and the Vandy game this year are the only two games Bray has won in his career over bowl-eligible teams. Look, the guy has a great arm, and his raw talent is unquestionable…but SEC football is about wins, right? He just doesn’t have them on his reasume’. I’m not saying he CAN’T beat good teams…just saying that he HASN’T, which is not a matter of opinion. I live in TN, and work with a bunch of UT homers, and they sound like the old SNL “Da Bears” skits when talking about Bray. His resume’ of wins says it all:
2010 – Ole Miss, Memphis, Vandy, UK…..2011 – Montana, Buffalo, Cincy, Vandy. That’s…not impressive, at all. Again, not disrespecting his obvious talent….but it hasn’t led to any wins over any really good teams yet, so maybe expectations should be tempered just a WEE bit. After all, going into his 3rd year, he still hasn’t even taken a single snap against Bama or LSU.
yeah, it hasn't led to wins against good teams
but how many good teams has he even played? One? And he has taken several snaps against Alabama, but didn’t do much with them.
Basically, when you’re returning 19 starters, it’s hard not to expect serious improvement. And the 2011 Tennessee team beats NC State and has a solid shot against Missouri and MSU, so you’d like to think improvement yields wins there. It’s not at all far-fetched to think the 2011 Tennessee team would’ve beaten Florida played at home with a healthy Justin Hunter. That’s one that I’ll kinda believe when I see it, but if there’s a year to end the streak, it’s this one. South Carolina will be favored, but we did shut them down pretty well this year, and they should lose Jeffrey. No reason our offense will be this bad last year, so we’ll have a shot there.
Even if this isn’t a 2008 Alabama type season (where, as you may recall, y’all were coming off 6-6 and not exactly calling for championships), Mike Shula went 10-2 in his third season.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 30, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
did he play any in the Bama game last year?
I thought his first game action came against SC last season. Anyway, he played against SC last year, NC in the bowl game, Florida this year, and Georgia this year…and lost them all. Not to mention overseeing UT’s first loss against UK since Reagan’s first term, with Randy Sanders calling the plays and a WR playing QB. Even Rick Clausen didn’t lose to UK. Dude is uber-talented and fearless, without question…but where has it gotten you? I guess I’m still annoyed about the “throat-slash” crap from last year’s Music City Bowl (and the subsequent crying on the sideline after it was over).
It just seems crazy to me to be talking about projecting 10 wins when you’re coming off a 7 loss season. Big difference between 2012 UT and 2008 Bama…Nick Saban, who was (and is) a proven winner. So far Dooley has only proven that he’s strange (“bamboo”, “shower discipline”, etc.) and petty (Arnett debacle). He does have a nice coif of hair, though…I’ll give him that.
and mike shula
never would have won 10 games in THIS SEC. The league in 2005 had no Saban, no Petrino, Spurrier in his first year at SC, and Urban in his first year at UF, trying to run a read-option spread with pro style personnel. Best team in the league was UGA, who Shula didn’t have to face. THe SEC was good in 2005, but it’s A LOT more competitive now, especially when you consider the additions of A&M and Mizzou.
North Carolina and Florida were not good
forgot about South Carolina. But that was only half a game, and was the first significant time of his career.
Now as far as Shula, I think winning 10-2 in his day isn’t that different from 9-3 in this SEC when you don’t play Alabama or Arkansas. 9-3 is what I think is the semi-realistic goal here
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 30, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
but they DO have to play Bama...
..just like they do every year. At any rate, I don’t want to argue about 9-3 vs. 8-4. Better question… is 8-4, with a decent bowl bid (Chick-fil-a, maybe Outback) the worst that Dooley can do and still come back in 2013? Or is 7-5 enough to buy him another year? He can’t blame Lane Kiffin forever, right? What are your thoughts on that?
I'm sorry
I meant don’t have to play LSU or Arkansas. Only play one of the big three. That was the idea. But yeah, I’m not on the “must be 10-2 bandwagon”
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 31, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
and no, 7-5 isn't good enough
unless we have ridiculous injuries, beat Alabama, and a number of other unlikely things
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 31, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
I agree.
10 wins isn’t the floor, but 8 might be.
7 might buy him another year, but it will serve to turn the fanbase on him, and he’ll have to catch the world on fire the next year.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Dec 31, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
the next year
in which we’ll likely not have Bray or Hunter and will have consecutive road games in Eugene and Gainesville
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 31, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm hoping beyond hope that they stick around for their senior years.
I know, it’s a pipe dream, but still….
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Dec 31, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Bray might be around for his senior year...
…but Hunter, no way. Already had one devastating knee injury. He ain’t taking the chance on another one before he gets paid. Plus, I think Bray needs to have a helluva junior campaign in order to even be one the radar of NFL scouts. Hunter probably already is.
not unless Hunter is hobbled in 2012
he might have to come back in 2013 to show he’s really back
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 31, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree about Bray needing to have a hell of a junior campaign.
He was being projected as a #1 overall pick in the 2013 draft after his freshman year. Of course, he won’t go THAT high without a hell of a junior year, but he has most of the things that scouts love. He can make all the throws, his deep ball is beautiful, he’s accurate, and he doesn’t seem to let pressure bother him.
If he had a bad year in 2012, he could slip. If he’s hurt again, he could get the injury prone label. But aside from those two things, I think he’s a first day pick if only from workouts and looking the part.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 1, 2012 4:19 AM EST up reply actions
projected by whom?
You mean after his rousing defeats of Memphis, Ole Miss, UK, and Vandy? Based on THAT, he was projected to be a #1 overall pick? Can’t say I buy that. So far, his career legacy is putting up big stats against terrible teams, and losing to all the good ones (including putting up a whopping 7 points on that ironclad UK defense). That’s why I think he needs a big junior season….he needs to put it all together and BEAT A TEAM WITH A PULSE. If he can do that, and stay healthy, then yeah, he might want to look at entering the ‘13 draft. Otherwise, he should stay put and tune up his game. In the NFL, there are no Memphises or Montanas to beat up on.
It’s different for Hunter, but a WR is lot more likely to be drafted high based almost totally on potential than a QB is. Keep in mind, we’re talking about Hunter like he’s Jerry Rice or something… dude has caught 33 balls for 729 yards in his career. (that’s 25 fewer catches and over 200 fewer yards than Julio had his freshman year alone) But, like my man Julio, he has the size, the speed, and the vertical leap that money can’t buy, and that will get him drafted highly, regardless of his team’s wins and losses.
Projected...
by nfldraftscout, Mel Kiper, and others
If your average NFL scout was able to design a prototypical QB, it would be Bray down to every detail.
if you can post a link...
…to where ANYBODY was projecting him as THE #1 overall pick 3 years ahead of time, based on 5 career starts, that would be much appreciated. Till then, I’ll remain extremely skeptical at that assertion.
there's a reason we're talking about Hunter like that
but he’s going to have to start more than 3 games in his career before the rest of the country realizes it
and, you know, recover from the ACL
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 12:42 AM EST up reply actions























