Dooley Gets The Graham Hire Right -- On All Fronts
Here was Jay Graham's dilemma:
Over in Columbia, S.C., Heisman candidate running back Marcus Lattimore awaited Graham's return to his current position as South Carolina's RBs coach next season. With Lattimore's success, Graham enjoyed security. With South Carolina's recent success, Graham enjoyed stability.
In Knoxville where Derek Dooley had just offered him the same position, a stagnant running game ranked 116th out of 120 FBS teams -- and 223rd out of all 240 Division I teams -- and graduating its senior leading rusher, offered a daunting challenge. With Tennessee's volatile recent coaching situation and losing record, Graham would sacrifice that security and stability.
Seems a no-brainer, right?
To Graham, it was. To Graham -- a Vols legend who is seventh on UT's long list of dominant running backs with 2,609 yards from 1993-96 -- there was never a question what he was going to do.
When you have the opportunity to snag a high-character coach with that level of loyalty and all the intangibles, you've got to make it. That's why not only was Graham perhaps the best hire Dooley could make to fill the running backs coach spot ... he may have been the only hire to make.
Way back at the beginning of the football season when the Vols were just beginning to struggle running the football, we inadvertently spent nearly an entire half hour on the podcast discussing what needed to happen to be able to generate tough yards on the ground in the SEC. It didn't take long for us all to agree that it would be best for Dooley to hire a full-time, paid running backs coach rather than have a graduate assistant [in this case Chino Fontenette] handle the duties. Prior to their ever being any discussion of Memphis' Larry Porter losing his job, there seemed to be just one name that needed to be at the top of that list.
That was Jay Graham.
The more we harped on it, the more I began to research Graham and just why he'd be the perfect fit for UT. The obvious reason is he's a Vol legend, but there are many, many more. Since the closure of a forgettable season, even more reasons emerged that made Graham the perfect fit. Here are the reasons.
- He's a heckuva coach. After a graduate assistant season with UT, Graham escalated in the coaching ranks quickly. He was hired by former UT Chattanooga coach Rodney Allison to be the running backs coach for the Mocs in 2006, then quickly moved to the University of San Diego to serve the same position. After one year there, he bolted for a bigger opportunity on UT Martin's staff as Jason Simpson hired him to be the receivers coach and recruiting coordinator. The FBS came calling immediately after when Miami (Ohio) hired him away, and Steve Spurrier got him to be the Gamecocks' running backs coach a year later.
That's a lot of moving around, but it's also the life of a young, up-and-coming coach. Once Graham got to Columbia, he has been there for three years. While Lattimore is his meal ticket, Graham really showed his coaching chops this season when a knee injury sidelined the All-SEC talent with five games to play. I remember being excited about facing USCe without Lattimore, but Graham and crew inserted little-known Brandon Wilds, who rushed for more than 100 yards against UT and finished the year with 486 yards and a 4.5 ypc average. Most importantly, the Gamecocks were 4-1 without Lattimore, only losing to Arkansas.
Many South Carolina fans -- and even coaches -- have commented about Graham's value, and it's difficult to find one negative thing said about his three seasons there. - His recruiting abilities are impressive and often overlooked. There's no doubt that UT's inability to recruit a top-shelf running back over the course of the past few years have been paramount to the demise of the running game. While the offensive line has been terrible, Dooley has placed most of the blame on runners' lack of vision and inability to hit the holes. This is by no means a knock on Marlin Lane or Raijon Neal, who could become quality running backs, but when other SEC teams have Mark Ingram, Trent Richardson, Marcus Lattimore, Michael Dyer, Isaiah Crowell, etc., the Vols can't boast anybody like that.
Enter Graham. He is credited for being five-star Lattimore's lead recruiter in 2010, and everybody in the country wanted him. Lattimore spoke highly of Graham during his recruitment and cited him as being a big reason why he stayed home. He was responsible for two three-star commits and a two-star commit according to Rivals that year, but he mostly worked Lattimore.
Last year, Graham was the lead recruiter for four three-star players. This season, the Gamecocks have trusted him with more high-profile players, and he has gotten results. He's the lead guy on four-star offensive tackle commit Brock Stadnik and highly-recruited four-star Gamecocks commit Jody Fuller. More importantly, he is recruiting three high-profile Vols targets. Florida five-star offensive tackle commitment D.J. Humphries chose the Gators over UT and USC, and Graham was his lead recruiter. Humphries has cited his relationship with Graham as being the main reason for his consideration of Carolina. Also, four-star outside linebacker Nick Dawson is being recruited by him.
Most importantly, Graham was recruiting five-star running back Keith Marshall, who recently told Scout.com that his interest in South Carolian stemmed from his relationship with Graham. Marshall ultimately chose Georgia over Clemson today, and given that he's an early enrollee, it seems a long-shot that the Vols can get in on that one. But Volquest.com has reported today that Graham was in Murfreesboro running back I'Tavius Mathers' home Sunday night and is trying to get him to become a Vol. Also, Josh Ward tweeted today that Graham has also already contacted UT top RB target Mike Davis on the Vols' behalf. Don't think the Vols won't have Graham out there hitting up all the running back targets, trying to get a commitment from a marquee name, especially after UT parted ways with Imani Cross.
South Carolina fans on message boards already are talking about what a big recruiting blow this loss is, especially considering Graham had developed solid relationships with 2013 kids in North and South Carolina, where he'll primarily recruit [most likely] for the Vols. - He's a Vols legend. Let's face it -- that's a great thing. I know we were all excited about Dooley hiring old buddy Chuck Smith -- another UT legend -- and that blew up in our faces, but this is different. We've established that Graham is a good coach and recruiter. More importantly, the reason why this is so important right now is because of the state the program is in. We don't have Phillip Fulmer or Johnny Majors coaching at UT anymore. There is no John Chavis or David Cutcliffe or Randy Sanders -- guys who have been around the program or were longtime Vols.
I feel like we lost sight a little of what made us great, what made us tick, what made everybody associated with that program proud to be Tennessee Vols. Graham can bring that back. He can 'rah-rah' and talk about bleeding, sweating, crying for Tennessee without it coming out as preachy or overblown because he's got the coaching/motivating chops behind it.
A week or so back, I wrote a column about how former players coming out and trashing Dooley or voicing their displeasure was not good for the fragile state of the program right now. Some former players took offense to that and let me know about it. A concern that was echoed among them all was that Dooley has not done a great job as an ambassador for the program as far as reaching back and making those players through the years feel welcome or like they're a part of his program. This is the ultimate olive branch, hiring "one of us" to help lead a position that has been an embarrassment recently. While Graham won't be calling any of the PR shots most likely, it can't hurt to have him around to help bridge that divide between the Vols of the past and the players and regime over there now.
In the court of public opinion, those players' voices mean a lot more than yours or mine. When they talk, people listen. Had Dooley made another hire that perhaps wasn't a slam dunk rather than hiring Graham, the grumbling may have gotten louder. Especially considering Tee Martin's name has been buzzed around the program, too. We all want Dooley to hire the best coaches, but when you consider Graham could very well be one of the best coaches out there that the Vols could snag, getting him perhaps squelched an outcry from alumni looking for anything to gripe about before it started. This was positive on pretty much all fronts -- getting a great coach who is a good recruiter and making everybody happy in the process. - He wants to be here. We discussed that before a little bit above, but isn't it nice to have a short coaching search where one of the top targets is actually jumping through hoops to get here? This is not a knock on Dooley, but we all know he wasn't the first choice to be head coach two years ago. Justin Wilcox was down the list as well. There have been a bunch of "huh?" hires for position coaches, but it seems Graham -- and if they decide to call him, Tee Martin -- would crawl on broken glass to get back to Knoxville to try to help bring us out of the hole we're currently in. I love that. I want a man I cheered for as a kid who knows what it means to be a Tennessee Volunteer champion to be a coach on my football team. And he wants to be a coach for my football team. It doesn't get any better than that.
- Nobody can dispute the validity of this hire. That seems to be such a trivial thing. [Do you actually think Dooley loses sleep over making hires that the media doesn't like? No way.] But, given these trying times, times where every little rumor and every step is magnified and scrutinized, it's great to be able to close the deal on a universally terrific hire. Dooley did that today.
- It weakens a division foe. Can South Carolina go out and get a marquee running backs coach to replace Graham? Of course it can with Lattimore standing there waiting. But taking Graham spins the Gamecocks' recruiting a little into turmoil, it makes them have to scramble to replace him and it opens the possibility that whomever they get won't be a great fit for their offense. We know all about that, don't we? We get stronger, and they go searching. You have to like that. It's also nice shoving it to Spurrier a bit.
The bottom line is Dooley got this one right. The Vols needed a running backs coach moving forward, and they went out and got a top-notch candidate with an orange-and-white pedigree who can do it all when it comes to coaching. After a season of disappointment has culminated with the past week of embarrassment and subsequent soap opera-level turmoil, it's good to feel good. And this is great news.
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Oh yeah
He’s also a family man and a quality person. Forgot to mention that.
Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.
Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!
aaaaaaaaaand rec'd
If I cared more about my Carolina side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 6, 2011 5:12 PM EST reply actions
Rec'd. Hard not to feel really, really good about this hire
Dude is directly responsible for South Carolina turning into a downhill power. SOUTH CAROLINA.
While I think it’s clear the O-line wasn’t exactly setting the world on fire this year, having watched some of the games over, I keep coming back to all the terrible, inexplicable early cuts and a seeming total lack of field vision from the tailbacks. I absolutely guarantee we don’t have the 117th-most talented RB corp in the country- while a lot of that ranking has to do with the priorities of the Chaneyfense (most of which I like), this was a desperate area of need.
What happened with Imani Cross and when?
I completely missed that……
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Ok, thanks, good deal then
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
A little more context...
My understanding is staff considered Cross and Hill to be essentially the same RB and Hill is an EE so to free up some room Cross was invited to open back up his recruitment.
Congrats on the hire.
Graham is a very solid coach; the results speak for themselves. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that he’s “directly responsible for making South Carolina a downhill power,” but he’s definitely played a role. Can’t blame him a bit for wanting to come home. Hope he works out for you guys—other than on Halloween, of course.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans.
The more I read about the hire, the more I love it.
I’d love nothing more than for Tee Martin to make his way back to Knoxville, now.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Dec 6, 2011 6:02 PM EST reply actions
Well, if Russell leaves and they hire Tee...
Hinshaw can coach WRs and possibly ST or Graham can coach RB and ST and Chaney can handle TEs along with OC and Tee handles QBs or Tee handles WRs and Hinshaw handles QBs. Seems to be a variety of ways to make it work.
Today in Skyrim:
Vampirism! Or, how I learned to stop worrying and also stop going out in sunlight.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
Well, aside from apparently getting attacked on sight, yeah.
Ended up nuking it before it got out of hand, but it could’ve been fun. Given that I have like seven quests that result in getting mauled by vampires, I have plenty of times to change my mind.
Also: gonna be The Man, I think. Joining the Legion.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Dec 6, 2011 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
And some enemies.
Really, I just want the excuse to kill a lot of stuff.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Dec 6, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
STORM ALL THE STORMCLOAK
bases.
______________________________________________
Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
I have a question
What’s keeping us from hiring another position coach? Why did we have to move Hinshaw to WR coach and just hire Graham rather than keeping Hinshaw where he is and hiring Graham and Tee?
Florida Sucks!
by Orange Swarm on Dec 7, 2011 3:04 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
NCAA rules about size of staff?
Which I’m guessing are in place for the purpose of “leveling the playing field.”
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Dec 7, 2011 7:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
yup
The limit is 10, including the head coach and not including the S&C coach. In practice, that’s one fewer than would be ideal.
That’s why you end up having somebody coach two positions (e.g. RB/TE) or having a coordinator or head coach double up on a position.
John Ward says, "Give. Him. SIX. Touchdown, Jay Graham."
Nice hire, Dooley.
We're watching when you are not. Protecting against another 9-11.
It's easy to see one more year with Lattimore as a bad thing for long term job security.
He started with Lattimore at USC, who was going to be great under any coach imo. Lattimore was outstanding instantly with very little coaching at the college level. I think Graham made a much better decision to leave a program who’s ability to run the ball could only go down with a guy of Lattimore’s ability leaving for a program who’s ability to run the ball can only go up in TN(not to mention it is home for Graham). The USC fanbase was bound to have unrealistic expectation in the run game after being spoiled by Lattimore’s instant success. The TN fanbase will be happy to see its anemic run game improve to even the top 75 next year and then top 50 the next year, 30 the next, etc. It was a good move for all involved and there is something to be said for him landing Lattimore as TN could use a solid RB. It will be more difficult for him to recruit here, but not too difficult with the promise of instant PT.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
More difficult to recruit at Tennessee?
Really? Dooley is bordering on a top 5 class this year depending on the last 6 weeks of the recruiting season and that’s with all the crap going around at the end of the season.
Tennessee, local talent not withstanding, should be one of the easier places in the country to recruit. We have facilities that are on par with the best universities in the nation if not some pro teams and the highest recruiting budget in the nation.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Having in state talent is a huge advantage which really cant be discounted.
The state of South Carolina is a hot bed with South Carolina and Clemson both in the top 15(Clemson is 5th). There is also more of a direct pipeline for FL kids to the South Carolina schools. ESPN has the best class evaluators imo. Scout sucks and Rivals is just ok. Tennessee has a chance to get into the top 15 or maybe 10 this year, but not top 5 and year over year will have to battle with the middle tier SEC teams with rarely a shot at competing with the elite SEC recruiting schools in Bama, LSU, and UF. They could sneak higher by recruiting sheer numbers ala Miami but I dont think Dooley will recruit massive amounts of 3* or lower players to boost a ranking. Dooley is able to sell instant PT at almost every position right now which helps this year. This is why I think recruiting a mobile QB will be key if TN is going to compete consistently with a vast majority of 3* guys(even this year around 60% of the class is 3*). A mobile QB neutralizes the talent gap that they will normally face in the SEC.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 7, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
I'm just gonna have to disagree with a majority of that I guess.
Tennessee has never had a problem recruiting out of state and never will.
A mobile QB is the last thing we need unless you want Chaney gone and that’s a completely different discussion.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
The fact that you have to recruit out of state
Creates an additional burden on the coaches that schools with stronger in state talent don’t have. It’s a fact that has been mentioned as a reason for many of the coaches leaving UT’s staff over the years or not joining the staff in the first place. UT’s history and facilities are all great assets but it is still a grind to have to make the trips to distant locations to do the basic recruiting functions.
Sure
But, time has proven that it’s not that big of a disadvantage in actually putting together talented classes. May be a bit tougher on the coaches, but Tennessee is still very easy to recruit to if you can handle the travel……..
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Not arguing that
What I’m saying is that it takes more effort to asemble those kind of classes. Don’t believe me, just do some research on what a lot of coaches have said over the years.
Oops, I read your reply more carefully
I think we agree
They can put together a good class. Nobody is discounting that
but when they face the big recruiting SEC schools they will have mostly 3* talent facing mostly 4 and 5* talent all over the field. Traveling isnt what makes TN a hard place to recruit, its getting kids to leave home when home has an equal or better football program right now.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 7, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
see this
Janzen Jackson (doh!)
Justin Hunter
Da’Rick Rogers
Bryce Brown (doh!)
Justin Worley
Tyler Bray
Curt Maggitt
AJ Johnson
Michael Palardy (evaluators!!!!!!!!111)
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Janzen Jackson had character flaws
but he was your best defensive player lets not forget and also will be a solid NFL draft pick.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 7, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
And he came from LA stolen from LSU!!
Just like Justin Hunter was
Just like Da’Rick was stolen from UGA out of Georgia
Just like AJ Johnson, Curt Maggitt, and Michael Palardy were stolen from the Florida schools out of Florida
All of the above are 4 stars or 5 stars from the last two years!! Some you said couldn’t be done!
Furthermore, Tennessee in this class and the last combined have received a total of two 4* commits from Gainesville, FL and two 4* commits from Athens. GA. Guess what schools are in those cities?
Nevbermind, I said I’m done, I’m done.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
I didnt say it cant be done. I said its harder for TN to do.
Once again scroll up…….If you want you can compare TN’s recruiting classes to LSU, Bama, or UF’s you will clearly see who gets most of the elite talent from those states. Also if you would like to research a little on who gets the most elite talent from South Carolina, you will see Clemson and South Carolina as the leaders head and shoulders above TN for their in state talent. There are exceptions but it will always be harder for TN on the recruiting trail.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
My point is similar to yours
It can be done but takes a lot more EFFORT to do it. Day trips by the comfort of auto for UGA, UFL, TX, LSU are plane rides with all that hassle and overnight stays. It takes a toll.
Perhaps he'll be a solid NFL draft pick
He’ll have to clean up his act and keep it clean. He’ll probably be a middle to late round gamble because of that.
ESPN talent evaluators
were the ones who had Bryce Brown ranked number one.
Just one example, but don’t put too much faith in ANY of the “evaluators”. Trust the coaches or call for their heads, but none of the paid “evaluators” have a clue……
See: UT’s 2007 class aside from Eric Berry
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
The talent evaluators are normally good at what they do
which is why the the most elite coaches are in the running for the kids the evaluators deem 4 and 5*. The coaches have the same opinions most of the time. Coaches and paid evaluators generally have the same kids on their board. Tennessee signed a majority of 3* guys in 2007. The fact remains..chances a player becomes an all-american vs star rating. 1 in 15 5*, 1 in 50 4*, 1 in 150 3*, and around 1 in 350 2* or less. TN is going to have to take whats left over in LSU, Alabama, South Carolina and FL much of the time. Its not that they dont recruit out of state, but rather its harder for them to compete with the UF, Bama’ and LSU’s of the world.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 7, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
What is left over?
Janzen Jackson (doh!)
Justin Hunter
Da’Rick Rogers
Bryce Brown (doh!)
Justin Worley
Tyler Bray
Curt Maggitt
AJ Johnson
Michael Palardy (evaluators!!!!!!!!111)
need I continue?
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
There are obvious 5* guys, though that's still not a gaurantee
Where it gets murkier is 3-4* evals, that’s where you have to trust the coaches eval.
I disagree to a point
Bryce Brown was 5 star
Chris Donald was 5 star
Relando Melancon was 5 star
Eric Berry was 5 star
1 out of 4 doesn’t keep you employed anywhere but as a for-hire high school talent evaluator at ESPN apparently.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
I think we're saying the same thing a bit differently
Those are good examples of what I was trying to articulate.
Yeah, I think so
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
In other words
I don’t personally put any stock whatsoever into detailed rankings.
I trust that they, for the most part, won’t call too many true one-stars as five-stars, but between 3-5, it’s all the same to me. I’ll let the coaches sort it out.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
The issue with Fulmer in the latter years
Was he seemed to have got lazy on the eval part. He seemed to be taking whatever 5* he could get period. This staff appears, with limited sample size, to do a better job of evaluation and recruiting for fit and needs.
There are always busts
but the chances a 4 or 5* guys works out is vastly greater statictically(this isnt an opinion) than 3* or less guys. I guess the question is do you think Nick Saban, Les Miles, Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, Pete Carroll(when he coached) are good evaluators? Because their recruiting paws are all over the top 150 kids in the country. They odviously think it matters and their rings say it matters.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 7, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed on the first part of this, for sure.
Doc Sat does something on this most every year, and the numbers haven’t really changed much.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Dec 7, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
uhm...
We also have a huge advantage that almost nobody ever mentions. We border 8 states, and in quite a few of those cases are a very popular team in those areas.
Seriously… I think South Carolina has probably had a “better” recruiting class than us once in the entire history of college football(2008’s wtf class).
Yeah, pretty much this.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Also feel like I should point out...
That all but a couple of either SC team’s highly regarded prospects are from out of state.
Probably from FL where most of the elite talent comes from.
I referenced earlier that another advantage in recruiting south carolina is their pipeline for FL elite talent.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 7, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Then why can't they get it?
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
The "elite", 5* sure-fire all-americans that is?
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Like you said South Carolina has had a better recruiting class once in history..
What is TN’s record vs South Carolina? exactly. They dominate South Carolina most of the time because they normally have better players. TN routinely finishes behind 4 to 5 schools in their own conference in recruiting. Also you cant forget that South Carolina has 2 football universities the players get split between.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 7, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
You just made my point in a fashion.
If South Carolina is such a hotbed of recruiting with such connections into Florida, why can’t they out-recruit Tennessee?
Hence, Jay Graham will have a much easier time recruiting at Tennessee then South Carolina.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Because theyre going against another in state powerhouse in Clemson.
They have been neck and neck with TN either losing out by a couple spots or winning by a couple spots in each of the last 6 years after splitting talent with Clemson. It should also be mentioned this is also the period of time that South Carolina has given TN the most trouble on the field historically.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 7, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
You are arguing against your own point I think
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
They've recruited and coached extremely well on defense for a few years now
That’s where they’ve really seperated from us.
Agreed. The reason South Carolina is now able to compete with TN
is the fact they finally have stepped up their recruiting to a top 15 level and they have solid coaching. Auriemma had a pretty good quote..“there are 2 kinds of coaches, ones with good players and ex-coaches”.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 7, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
That certainly helps offset the lack of in state talent, but...
You still the extra work to overcome the built in bias most kids will have for their in state school they grew up rooting for. What wil really help offset some structural recruiting disadvantages is having UT winning regularly and impressively and putting more guys in the NFL. That used to prime the pumps for Fulmer.
You don't get fired because fans want you fired, though.
You get fired because you’re not getting it done. There was no indication this year of a future drop-off after Lattimore leaves the program, was there?
______________________________________________
Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
Btw
Graham was the reason Lattimore went to SoCar according to Lattimore. Graham didn’t “start with Lattimore at USC”, he got him there.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
I said that...."there is something to be said for him(Graham) landing Lattimore" scroll up.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Dec 7, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
I'm done, this has gotten ridiculous........
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
It looks like Alton Howard
Has committed to Tennessee. Can anyone else confirm that here yet? Just wanted to be sure.
by PrideofTheSouthlandFan on Dec 7, 2011 12:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Wait?!?!?!?
You mean we CAN get “elite” talent from Florida?!
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
he chose us over UCF
and other crap schools like Florida, Southern Cal, Nebraska, Ohio State, UCLA. . .
If I cared more about my Carolina side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 7, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Did I say you cant get elite talent from FL? no....
/facepalm. I said it is harder for TN to pull kids from those states than for those states themselves to keep the kids they want at home. Alton Howard was a battle between UCF and TN……….
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
confirmed
I have a fanshot up, and Brad’s working on a post
If I cared more about my Carolina side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 7, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure this has been discussed before...
But what is it that Tennessee so lacks in-state talent? I can understand why Florida and Texas produce so much. They’re huge states with prominent football cultures. But Tennessee is a medium sized state (bigger than Alabama or South Carolina, for example) with a prominent football culture. It seems like we should be moderately good at producing in-state talent.
I suspect a good bit of it has to do with geography
For instance, I can get to Canda quicker from my house in Tennessee then I can Memphis.
Football doesn’t play as big of a role in high school athletics as say Georgia or Alabama because of the spread of the state. We have one marquee school that half the state doesn’t necessarily support because they’re at least 300 miles away so that influence on the sport’s enthusiasm is limited. Furthermore, when you have high school divisions spread so far and wide, it’s hard to create a breeding ground for talent and enthusiasm.
It would probably be more advantageous to Tennessee’s “in-state” talent if certain parts of the state included the border states in their high school divisional setup such as Chattanooga and North Georgia, Knoxville and South Kentucky, and Memphis and whatever borders that cess pool.
Just a theory.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
I think a lot of it is just perception...
and has something to do with the concentration of a lot of talent in the private school ranks where they play for teams with basically no connections to the community they are in.
I also think the TSSAA has done a godawful job promoting high school football compared to other states. HS football is all over television in Georgia, Florida, Alabama, and Mississippi. You might see one game a week in Tennessee, and then only if you live in Nashville or Knoxville itself.
Your point is accurate
Although I must point out that a Cleveland-Bradley matchup made it on ESPN this season.
Was quite surreal tbh….
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
Best athletes in Memphis tend to play basketball
I feel like East Tennessee’s high school football has gotten stronger recently, and the Vols have put more local kids on the field (Dennis Rogan, Anthony Anderson, Jaron Toney, Aaron Douglas, Brandon Warren, Devrin Young, Nick Reveiz) than they used to. Some of that hasn’t always been by choice though.
Nashville was also a basketball town...
for a LOOOOOOOONG time.
Only football strongholds were in East Tennessee for a long time.
I REALLY like Jaron Toney
I hope he’s able to do some things for us, but if better talent comes in, so be it I guess.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
Speaking of in state talent...
We want I’Tavius Mathers BADLY.
I watched him when Bradley played up there, and he was the best high school running back I’ve seen since Gerald Riggs at least.
Yes!
Riggs was unreal in high school. I went to Red Bank, albeit before his time, and all they did when Riggs was there was run the same play over and over again and nobody could stop it period.
Had it not been for his ankle injury his senior year at Red Bank that never healed right, he most certainly would have been more Jamal Lewis for Tennessee then what actually happened.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
That is true. Its seems like the farther north the more the focus shifts to bball.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
Florida/Alabama/Louisiana/Georgia/South Carolina
All states with a huge number of african american kids with awesome ability, many of which come from neighborhoods with very little money so the vast majority gravitate to football at an early age as an escape. Youtube “Muck Bowl part 1” and continue through all the other parts of the documentary. It will paint an accurate picture for you. I’m from south FL and I can say that football is life to many of these kids. They work tirelessly in excrutiatingly hot temperatures to perfect their art not only to become good football players for themselves but also to try to help their families later in life. Theyre much more motivated to excel.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
This doesn't even dignify a response tbh.
Have you ever been to Tennessee?
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
I live in Johnson city. Born in West Palm Beach FL.
The question is have you ever been to Pahokee? lol
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
So
Your point is that Tennessee doesn’t have enough black people working in hot weather to be a good football state? Really?
And, Pahokee is obviously the most overrated source of football talent in the country. Especially from a character standpoint it seems.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
Our "black" population..
is right there with every southern state except Florida. I also can’t believe we’re having this conversation.
Me either.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
Hey!
I live around Chattanooga!
…..and I agree……….
See: Maal The Pimp
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
And yes people,
I just made a Maal the PImp reference.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
Nowhere makes Pahokee look nice.
There is NOTHING in Pahokee. Chattanooga and Memphis have awesome great parts of town too. There is only cane fields and muck in Pahokee.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
I'm just saying often times the guys from the south are better conditioned
due to off season workouts in 95 degree weather. If you think guys like Aquan Boldin, Santonio Holmes, Janoris Jenkins, and Travis Benjamin are overrated than yeah. I’m saying the majority of TN’s football teams arent as talented as FL’s. Over 350 div 1 kids a year out of there.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
That's completely accurate...
but that’s got a lot more to do with the huge population bases in West Palm Beach and Miami breeding competition among high schools that are already overcrowded to the point where they are having to rent trailers for extra classrooms.
Those two metro areas are the #1 and #2 areas in the US for producing NFL talent. Completely insane considering they are right next to each other… but that whole area is like a mini-SEC.
Lets be honest though if the population bases in West Palm Beach
and Miami were suburban white kids do you think they’d be any good? West Palm Beach and Miami have HUGE rough neighborhoods full of the kids that typically become great athletes.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
Given that we have absolutely zero examples...
of that in the SEC footprint, I have no idea.
And I played plenty of football with kids of every socioeconomic and racial group, and never really noticed a huge difference. Some of the worst athletes I’ve ever met were poor and black… and yeah, it’s abnormal even among african americans for a kid to turn into a great athlete. Black kids, like everyone else’s kids, typically turn out pretty average.
So what do you attribute it to
when you watch the NBA or the NFL and you see black guys all over the field or court? You dont think there might be a little athletic superiority in the gene pool that seems to surface more in the african american population than the white population?
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
Oh my goodness......
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
What do you attribute it to?
Why do you think the majority of pro athletes on the football field and basketball court are black? I’m curious what your opinion is.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
This is a discussion I'm not going to have here or anywhere else.
There are few things I can think of that would be more taboo on a sports blog then politics and religon, but eugenics is probably at the top of that list.
Good luck with your point of view.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
#TeamNotTakingSides
This is one of those discussions that like fares better in person than across the intertexts. I’d be willing to bet the medium of discussion is helping polarize things a bit.
And again: #TeamNotTakingSides
agree
If I cared more about my Carolina side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 7, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
I havent said anything negative about anybody.
To suggest that somehow my opinion that black guys are generally more athletic than white guys at the highest levels of football and basketball is taboo, is truly immature. I havent said anything here that would offend any of my closest black or white friends as they are educated, cultured, and open to discussion. Speaking of, I’m off to play some bball with them now. Remember one thing while I’m gone….White men truly cant jump.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
and I wasn't trying to imply anything...
just for the record. It’s just a really awkward conversation.
Its not awkward, its just the way it is. I went to a high school that was 85% minority
in a neighborhood that wasnt even rough in West Palm(Forest Hill High School). My Grandparents taught there. It is what it is. No big deal.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
As a general rule, at least in FL(and I'm sure in Miss, SC, Bama, etc)
the rougher the neighborhood the better the football team. Suburban white kids or black kids per cap dont seem to make as good of a football team as lower income black kids. That’s not to say the suburban kids cant become as good but generally their focus is spread to many other opportunities afforded them by their family/financial situation.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
We've been conditioned that we can't speak about what's clearly reality
FL and GA have bigger populations, bigger black populations that are more focused on football. They have mare large urban concentrations with larger schools that create intense competition that forges better football players. We have pockets of quality HS football in Tennessee but nothing like AL, GA, LA and FL. Them’s just the facts, sorry if it hurts the sensibilities of some people.
?????
So now we don’t have enough black people AND we have a northern climate???
You do know it was over 90 degrees in Chattanooga for about 6 weeks straight this summer starting in late June through July? Is that the offseason? Tennessee’s humidty is some of the highest in the nation to boot.
Look man, I really am not trying to be an ass but this is just getting ridiculous….
Yes Florida has more D1 talent, but that’s cool cause we’ll take some. The question wasn’t whether or not Tennessee is a better football state but why it wasn’t and it has ZERO to do with our demographic population or climate.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
agree to disagree on the demographic population and climate.
What were your reasons the southern states dominate the rest of the country in football again? South FL doesnt have a winter. They kids run through muck in the cane fields for training. Its a different animal entirely. They pride themselves on who runs the most between them and Belle Glade. There is roughly 150 kids in the graduating class and they are rountinely in the top 5 nationally. That’s insane.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
I can't believe I took the time to read all this
Should spent you’re time arguing with THAWALLRAWRRRRR
"We've got weapons, we've still got weapons... That's terrible, I apologize."
- Bruce Pearl
I feel like I just did.
I am seriously done her now. FORREALSTHISTIME!
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
*HERE
dang it
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
Crap.
I can’t figure out how to embed this, but this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-twUCEfzrDk
"We've got weapons, we've still got weapons... That's terrible, I apologize."
- Bruce Pearl
Can't embed videos in comments.
Animated gifs are the extent of moving pictures outside of posts proper.
Thanks Hoop.
"We've got weapons, we've still got weapons... That's terrible, I apologize."
- Bruce Pearl
Good ole JC.
I’m stationed in Little Rock in the Air Force and miss home so much. What high school did you go to?
Excellent
And, I’m leaving this thread with the statement that I’m completely stoked about Jay Graham coming home, his influence on our RB’s alone will be tremendously worth it and the upgrade in recruiting ability over a GA that can’t recruit and Charlie Baggett is hard to beat with ANY hire.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?


























