What would it take for Tennessee to let Bruce Pearl go?
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 8:01 AM EST
in Tennessee Volunteer Basketball
Email
PrintOn the first day of December 2007, Tennessee played in the SEC Championship Game. Twelve weeks later, the #2 Vols beat #1 Memphis in basketball, en route to the program's first appearance at the top of the polls and an SEC Championship. A month later, Pat Summitt won her eighth National Championship. Phillip Fulmer had hired the next great offensive mind in college football; we didn't know what the Clawfense was, we just knew it would be awesome.
And there was peace in the land.
I started writing for this site in December 2008. During my time here, our biggest day-to-day traffic bumps have come because of Lane Kiffin (by far), Bryce Brown, altered serial numbers on handguns, referees at the Music City Bowl, and, for all the wrong reasons, Bruce Pearl.
It's not that we don't appreciate the material. I'd just like to write about winning again - and when we do, I'd like to be able to enjoy it for longer than six months.
That's the distance between the Elite Eight and what I'd like to call "The Press Conference", but as we lead the league in those over the last three years, you have to distinguish "The one where Pearl cried" from, say, "The one where we were going to sing Rocky Top all night long after we beat Florida."
We bought Bruce's tears then. We reaffirmed our vows when Mike Slive handed down an eight game suspension. Bruce is our basketball coach, we said.
But now, it's getting a little more real. The end result is still months away, but it's beginning to take shape in the distance...just enough for us to speculate wildly on it, and imagine the worst.
Fans of opposing teams have wondered aloud for months about why we didn't just get rid of Pearl. Then they wondered why not only were we not getting rid of him, but we weren't even seriously considering the possibility.
So now, let's at least consider it, even if just for a moment:
For the record, I still support Bruce Pearl as our basketball coach, and I still believe he'll have a job here when all of this is said and done. The reasons Mike Hamilton and/or the university didn't move to fire him are just as true today as they were in September:
- The Wins. Pearl is the best coach in the history of this program, by far. The Vols have been ranked #1 and made an Elite Eight and three Sweet Sixteens under his watch, heights that had never been reached before. And he's consistently successful: Tennessee should make its sixth straight dance this season, something no Tennessee coach has ever done before and no SEC team has done over the same period.
- The Money. Just as big for Hamilton, under Pearl the Vols are averaging more than 7,000 more fans per night at Thompson-Boling Arena than showed up during Buzz Peterson's final season in 2005-06.
- The Perception. Pearl didn't pay players and didn't forge transcripts. Before the lie, Pearl's violation was a minor issue. And even after the lie, the perception remains that other schools are doing far worse than anything in that letter.
A signficant percentage of Tennessee Basketball fans are Tennessee Basketball fans because of Bruce Pearl. Had Hamilton gone after Pearl's job in September, he would've had zero public support for the move, and it would've been an even bigger step toward his own demise than waiting this thing out has become.
The NCAA will have the final say in this matter, and I continue to believe they are the only body capable of breaking up the Pearl/Tennessee marriage. Pearl won't resign, and if Hamilton was going to get rid of him he would've done it already. They both need each other, and right now I think enough of us agree to give Pearl full support on every level.
I believe the NCAA would have to give us no choice, hammering either us or Pearl or both with punishment so severe that we truly had no other option. We love Bruce Pearl...and if this ends, it won't end well. I think all parties are willing to dig in and face additional significant punishment together for Pearl to remain our coach...as long as said punishment isn't so severe it leaves us with absolutely no other choice.
So where's the line?
319 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
After reading Dana O'Neil's column
Jimmy Cheek needs to disregard Hamilton and take it upon himself to talk to former Rules Committee members and others in the know to find out the likelihood of Pearl getting the show-cause penalty. If it looks like there is a reasonable chance of that happening, he needs to fire Hamilton and Pearl immediately. If Pearl remains and he receives a show cause, along with the program getting hit with serious scholarship reductions and recruiting restrictions, our program will be dead for a long time. In order to receive as much good grace as possible from the NCAA from firing Hamilton and Pearl, we might be able to recover more quickly – which would help in enticing a decent replacement.
Point of fact
Our program will be dead without Pearl too, so why not give it a shot and let him take the punishment and fight through it. Our program was dead before Pearl, would be dead if we fired him because nobody is gonna come here to coach especially without an AD lined up.
If the penalties cause severe damage to our program, it’s no different than before or if we fire Pearl.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
by VolBrian on Feb 24, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Completely disagree
If we get rid of Pearl in March/April, we have time to hire a solid new coach. Pearl isn’t the only good coach in the country who will consider coaching at Tennessee. Remember, Hammy wasn’t the one who hired Wade Houston and Buzz Peterson. If we wait until what happens in June, and what happens is bad, we’re up a creek. Basically, I completely agree with what golfballs said. Bruce Pearl is not Tennessee basketball. He’s done a lot of wonderful things to revive the program, but there are other coaches who can pick us up here and do more wonderful things.
My line, btw, is a year suspension. If he’s suspended for non-conference play, we can deal with that. If he’s done for a year, we need to find somebody else.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
I think we have an excellent talent base, with a solid record of wins, I would have to believe that a decent coach would be more than willing to come in and scrape in wins with a stellar roster.
BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." John Heisman
by Joseph Stanley on Feb 24, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Depends on who is doing the hiring...
Mike Hamilton doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence in me.
(Of course, I would imagine that a Bruce Pearl firing would most likely be accompanied by a Hamilton firing.)
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Ha
Exactly, let’s return to the Buzz Peterson era. You’ve made my point. You may not think Bruce Pearl Is Tennessee basketball, but if that’s true, then you are looking for previous, highly mediocre, lose to UTC Tennessee basketball.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
That's the opposite of my point
The next coach isn’t going to be Buzz Peterson, as long as we have an AD that cares about basketball. Which we do. And if Hammy goes, we should hire another one. Tennessee will be Tennessee after Bruce Pearl is gone (thanks in no small part to Pearl for building the program to where it’s attractive to good coaches).
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Bruce Pearl is NOT Tennessee basketball.
You may think he is, but if that’s true, then your memory only goes back to Buzz Peterson.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
I agree. Ish.
At this point in time Bruce Pearl is Tennessee’s success. Without him, I doubt we do anything big in the SEC-waters for at least a year or two.
______________________________________________
That's (333333jorkland)^2 and $$$$$$$$immons to you, chump.
I wouldn't go that far
I think you all would have to go the up and coming route, which is risky (see: Gillispie, Billy Clyde). But, UT is still a “BCS” program that a lot of coaches would desire.
IMO, I think Bruce should resign for the good of the university. Also, the AD should be fired.
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
The thing is
Does it really help the university for Bruce to do anything at this point? If they were going to fire Bruce, they would have done so when they terminated his contract. If Bruce was going to resign, he wouldn’t have accepted blame on himself.
______________________________________________
That's (333333jorkland)^2 and $$$$$$$$immons to you, chump.
Nothing would surprise me at this point
I could still see the NCAA (after the hearing) offering alternatives to the school: fire Pearl and your punishment is X. Keep Pearl and your punishment is X x 2.
I could see Peal falling on his sword in that scenario.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
That's the idea of a show-cause ruling.
It doesn’t force a coach not to be hired, but it means you can’t be employed by a member institution without severe penalties.
______________________________________________
That's (333333jorkland)^2 and $$$$$$$$immons to you, chump.
Agreed to a point
I think he should have been gone from the jump. However, now that he has been retained, you have to wait to see what penalties the NCAA will bring down. My guess is a couple lost schollys and a show-cause for Pearl, but if you’ve kept him up until now you really only fire him for PR reasons at that point.
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
Yeah
I can understand people who have wanted Pearl fired all along, but what puzzles me are the people who have decided they want him fired as a result of the Notice of Allegations. Other than the bump violation (which I admit is troubling as far as the timing is concerned,) we didn’t learn anything new yesterday. So why would people change their mind about Pearl based on the Notice?
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Something everyone's missing regarding firing
If you fire Pearl in September, who do you hire? There’s no market in September. If you fire him in March, that’s a different story.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
If Hamilton goes
they do need to bring in someone who will really care about more than just football. Doug Dickey was great at a lot of things, but great care and attention to basketball was not among them.
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed, but...
… I doubt that will be a problem these days. Doug Dickey was old-school and I doubt any serious candidates for a major D-I athletic director job would see the world the way he did.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Bruce Pearl has shown what Tennessee basketball is capable of
and that will be very attractive to many coaches. Our facilities are amazing.
this is true, i am pretty sure have the second largest basketball arena
I like orange and I am a dog person
We had that...
a long time before Pearl was here. It was just mostly empty.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Feb 25, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
yeah i know it was here long before, but for some reason that stat still sometimes surprises me
It is just kind of odd because I didn’t think the women’s games regularly filled it either. Someone once told me the school did it to spite UK but I don’t know how credible that is.
I like orange and I am a dog person
oh i figured
but having 2nd largest arena is something where only one other school in the country can say they have anything better. No matter how nice our facilities are I would imagine that could be a big selling point. It at least may give the impression we are crazy about basketball
I like orange and I am a dog person
I think you guys
are crazy if you don’t wanna get out right now. Some coaches do screw up, get caught, then run a clean program from there on out, but not guys that continue to break rules after tearful press conferences. True, Pearl’s worse thing was really the lies and his rule violations weren’t really bad (like you said, he didn’t pay players or get into any kind of academic fraud). But time and time again you see the coaches that don’t mind breaking the rules continuously and try to get away with it, Jim Harrick, Kelvin Sampson, Calipari (we all know it’s only a matter of time).
Don’t tell me that this’ll scare Pearl straight, and eight game suspension should’ve done that. Imagine what’ll happen the next time he gets caught. You’re gonna end up cursing the day you heard of Bruce Pearl. I’m not a Tenn fan, but I am a Sampson victim.
It troubles me
That Bruce gave a tearful confession…then acted again.
I openly admit basketball is not my cup of tea. I’m a football guy. Basketball is more of a barely passing interest, so I think I can say I don’t have a dog in this hunt.
But on the football side what has been one of our major concerns: public perception. the perception of our team in the media, the perception that we had the “best felons money could buy” at one point.
If we allow this to stagnate, if action is not taken, from my point of view we are encouraging that mindset in our basketball program through lack of a response.
Maybe I’m sounding harsh, and my sincere apologies. My blood runs as orange as anyone else’s. But that doesn’t justify wrong no matter how many wins he has.
BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." John Heisman
Personally...
Prefacing this with the cop-out of I’m not sure what it would take for me to think the school should fire Pearl… for me personally, the punishment the NCAA decides to mete out isn’t really much of a factor. We’ve all known for years that the NCAA routinely makes decisions that make no sense to anyone.
What matters to me (and what I think should matter to the university) is the conduct that earned the punishment. And we now know what Pearl did (or at least what he is accused of.) The school will have the opportunity to address those accusations at the hearing in June. Pearl could be cleared of some of those accusations then (although I doubt it.)
At any rate, the punishment the NCAA hands down won’t affect my opinion of what UT should do with Pearl. His transgressions themselves are what govern my opinion of him.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
That being said... (one final cop-out)
I still don’t know how I feel about Pearl and whether he deserves to be fired. I want to like and trust him again but I’m not sure I can. I also know the damage that firing him would do to the program (as referenced by VolBrian above.) But it might be worth it to restore our honor/integrity.
It’s obviously a difficult and complicated situation. I’ve thought about it a lot and I don’t think I’ve made any progress – I’m still where I was on Day One of this mess, wondering whether or not I want to keep him or fire him. It’s not a comfortable position, and maybe it ultimately means I really think he should be fired.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Early returns support this idea
As the current top two vote getters don’t care about punishment. I think Pearl should stay because right now I believe our basketball program is simply better with him than without him, in spite of his current transgressions…but to me there will come a point or a line punishment-wise where that ceases to be the case.
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
THIS
I’M GOING ALL CAPS HERE FOR EM-PHA-SIS
ASK YOURSELVES GUYS, IS OUR PROGRAM BETTER WITH OR WITHOUT PEARL REGARDLESS OF SANCTIONS?
Throw the integrity of our program out. That stain washes out quickly. Remember Baylor player murdering each other? That’s right, they killed one of their teammates.
If Bruce Pearl and Hamilton are fired we might as well just give up men’s basketball for a few years altogether. We won’t get a coach of any caliber and we will lose Hopson and Harris to the NBA, all of currently committed recruits, Williams is gone, Fields is gone, Goins is gone, Tatum, Maymon and Pearl transfer and we’re left McBee, Woolridge, and Tyler Summitt if we’re lucky.
So, seriously ask yourselves if you really, honestly believe Tennessee basketball is better off without Pearl. There will be no “show-cause” penalty. One-year suspension at worst.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
by VolBrian on Feb 24, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"If Bruce Pearl and Hamilton are fired we migt as well just give up on men's basketball"
What percentage of current fans would stop right there, and not even get into what our roster would look like, who we could hire, etc like you did?
We can’t throw the integrity of our program out. But right now I still think there’s enough good with Pearl for us to remain committed to him, in spite of a lie and a bbq. And I’m like you – words about integrity coming from some of the programs around us are going to ring hollow.
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
I'm just getting real tired of this belly-up attitude from within
Where is our defiance people?
We get in a little trouble that is nothing compared to USC, Alabama, what Auburn was accused of, Uconn, Ohio State, John Calipari and the UT “fans” I see posting around the intrawebz act like they want to just burn down the campus and start over.
Where are your guts and pride? This is the only fanbase I know of that completely rolls over in situations like these.
I really hate to say be like USC or Alabama, but let’s make a stand with our school somewhere. We’re not the first school with decades of tradition to get in trouble and we won’t be the last.
Not directed at you in particular Will, just more along the lines of my other comments I should probably just string together in a FanPost.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
This is a very valid point.
I watched Tennessee as a vaguely-interested outsider all the way up to 2006, and I noticed two things about the fanbase. One was that they could actually sing together, almost soccer-style, way before that was cool. (Thanks, Rocky Top!) The other was that Tennessee fans have self-deprecation down to an art.
It’s like Tennessee-types feel like they’re competing at a level that they don’t quite belong at, and they’re just waiting to pay the piper for it. The school isn’t quite as big or as well-funded the Michigans, Ohio States, and Texases. The regional populations isn’t quite as large as that of USC or even Florida. Whatever it is, it’s like Tennessee fans like to play the Georgia Tech to whatever straw man Georgia they perceive. Good enough to compete, but somehow there has to be some moral shortfall that makes Tennessee “deserve” it less.
The upside is that I never had to deal with Alabama levels of hubris when I moved to Knoxville.
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I've never gotten that feeling at all.
Interesting that you perceived us that way. I’m close friends with several Ole Miss fans who fit that description, but for the 35+ years I’ve been a Vol fan I haven’t felt like our fanbase is that way.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
It may have more to do with the state of affairs from 2006 on than anything else.
by Joel Hollingsworth on Feb 24, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
i feel like being a vol is masochistic in a lot of ways and my gf thinks it is bad for my health and general well being
but I think there is a difference between the sense of inevitable impending doom that comes after any form of success and feeling that we are not good enough to compete. I know TN is not a good state for recruiting and we do have all the disadvantages you listed above but that has not stopped us from still being #9 winningest football program and winning a NC in 98 and almost getting there in 01. I don’t ever feel inferior or that we don’t belong at the winner’s table though
I like orange and I am a dog person
I just feel that something bad will happen next
because the Devil hates us or some bammer learned voodoo
I like orange and I am a dog person
I have felt that way with certain Vol teams
(This year’s basketball team being one of them) But I don’t feel that way about Tennessee sports in general, and don’t know anyone who does. But that’s exactly the way my Ole Miss fan friends are.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Ole Miss fans are afraid of Bammers with voodoo curses?
my feeling comes from things like the second half of the SEC championship in 2001, the two football games this year decided in “bonus time” after what appeared to be a victory, the good recruiting day followed by NCAA letter of intent or whatever it was, vandy win followed by this stuff, the elite 8 appearance followed by pearl lying (although that was not as immediate as the rest), the victory over pitt followed by a string of embarassing losses, the #3 preseason ranking in 05 (i think it was) followed by not going to a bowl game and losing to vandy, getting a #1 ranking and losing to vandy less than 48 hours later, honestly the list can go on way longer but it is kind of depressing. this is why i feel this way but i realize it is nothing more than a silly superstition
I like orange and I am a dog person
Could be.
I certainly don’t claim my perspective to be anything more than what it its. And arriving in Knoxville did come on the heels of the 2005 season. So tifwiw.
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
This is fascinating
I feel like my generation of fans (late 20s/early 30s) lived through enough oppression from Alabama & Florida, plus the Houston/O’Neill/Green/Buzz lineage to have a strong sense of appreciation for the titles we have won since, and to have some measure of perspective on things now. I feel like Tennessee knows its place – at the table with the other heavyweights in this league, but not superior to any of them.
But younger and newer fans would either lack the appreciation for when we weren’t winning and/or have more of a sense of entitlement. Either way, your perspective is very interesting.
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Recent / younger fans have a sense of entitlement?
It’s almost like you’ve seen the crowds at TBA in January.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Feb 24, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
I mention this from time to time
You’ve never seen a student section turn on a team the way ours did in Jerry Green’s final year. I was in school at UT for Green’s last two and Buzz’s first two, and the classes that came in with Green didn’t know anything other than winning. By his final year almost no students knew who Kevin O’Neill or Wade Houston even were – all they knew is that UT won, and when it fell apart in 01, it got very hostile very quickly. No appreciation, all entitlement.
It’s something similar with Pearl, but he’s won so much now and was so likable before all of this, he could absorb the blow. Green was a jerk and his team played lazy basketball, and none of that helped.
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
The initial infractions weren't worse than USC, Alabama, etc
but lying is worse – and Pearl may have a show-cause to show for it.
Follow-up......
And I’m out. Y’all go ahead and tighten up your cilice’s.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Psssshhht
I’m pretty sure hairshirts only come in orange these days
by _trey_ on Feb 24, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well played...
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Poll options
One that I might have voted for (but it wasn’t an option) was a post-season ban by itself. I don’t care about additional suspension.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
I think they'll go after Pearl first
us second…I think a tourney ban is in the realm of possibilities, I just can’t see them doing that without hammering Pearl first. But again, it’s the NCAA…who knows.
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Well...
The redacted portions worry me. Most of us agree that those have to do with current UT athletes and the contents of those allegations could be pretty bad for us. If the NCAA thinks we got a competitive advantage in the recruitment of Tobias and other current players, I could easily see them banning us from the post-season for as long as that class is here. And the effect that would have on recruiting would obviously be terrible.
So for all the uproar about having to start at Square One if we hire a new coach, we may pretty much be starting at Square One anyway after all of this is over. The question then would be do we want to start over with Pearl or with someone who hasn’t lied to us and committed these wrongs. It’s not a simple question and I’m torn on it.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Sad - going from the TOP to the bottom
I will make it clear up front – I’m NOT a Vol fan – never have, never will be. My wife & daughter graduated from UT, but that still does not change my mind. I will say that much of my hatred for the Big Orange was due to their success!
The envy was due to the UT tradition, game day in football @ UT is what college football /sports was all about! Arriving early staying late, watching Vol walk, then running over to see the band march down the hill and into Neyland Stadium. Seeing 98,011 wearing that ugly bright orange, 2,000 in visitor colors; listening to Rocky Top far too many times.
That’s Tradition! I use to envy that.
Now back to Pearl
1. # 1 in wins
2. 1st # 1 ranking
3. 1st elite 8 appearance
4. 3 sweet sixteen appearance
5. # 1 in violations
6. ANY CORRELATION THERE!
Do you now want to destroy the integrity of the university like UNLV did!
Bruce Pearl lied to the NCAA
Told the recruits to lie
Told the assistant coaches to lie
Then went back to a parent and told him to lie
Then cries on TV saying he loves UT
Three days later he is breaking NCAA recruiting rules AGAIN.
If that’s what the school is truly about – I no longer envy the UT fans – I pity them. Because once you give up integrity you lose tradition.
So I can clearly say now that I HATE UT and I no longer envy the UT fans because they gave up everying thing for coach who does not care about UT like their graduates he loves the fans because of the MONEY!!!!!!
by blue not orange on Feb 24, 2011 10:04 AM EST reply actions
Wow, that's means a lot.
I have completely changed my opinion on this matter now…….
Go back to wherever you came from.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
which appears to be nowhere because it seems like his account was created to produce this gem...
I like orange and I am a dog person
IT'S THE NOTHING!!!
They look like such big, strong hands, don’t they?
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I'd say it has far less to do with money
which he already lost 1.5 million of. More to do with the fact that Tennessee was and is his first real shot at the big time, and it’s worked really well. This isn’t Calipari or someone else who’s been around at several bigtime or even semi-bigtime schools. He was at Wisconsin-Milwaukee and D2 before that – I think he’s very appreciative of the opportunity we gave him, though his recent actions call that into question.
And I don’t see the correlation between a recruiting BBQ for players we never signed and our on-court success.
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
I am not sure where #1 in violations stat came from
but someone with such amazing statistical analysis skills must be right. The whole three day later thing really has yet to be fleshed out so I will reserve judgment on that. It could have been an erroneous charge or an honest mistake on his part.
As a UT fan I have come to love the man as our coach, winning was definitely a part of that yes, but honestly I do not think I would feel the same way if Calipari or a lot of other successful coaches had the same record at our school. Sure I would love the record but I don’t know that I wouldn’t want to cut and run in the same situation. You say we are giving up everything by keeping a man with a dishonest reputation as our coach soI really hope that your sig does not refer to UK blue.
We will see how everything turns out but I think it is a little early to say we have sold our soul.
I like orange and I am a dog person
He's a troll, just haven't flagged it yet
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
yeah i notice he just posted exact same thing on podcast comments
I like orange and I am a dog person
What the hell is this crap?
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
by btcoop71 on Feb 24, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the flags, guys
It’s been handled.
by Joel Hollingsworth on Feb 24, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Remember, though
That despite a ban, if you engage via the reply button, that leaves us with a dilemma of leaving it and the replies or deleting the whole subthread.
by Joel Hollingsworth on Feb 24, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I've heard there is a new pop up warning system for SB Nation
Can you confirm?
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
To me it's not a matter of punishment but of actions themselves.
To put it bluntly: I do not believe that the actions done merit a parting of Tennessee Basketball and Bruce Pearl. He didn’t really “cheat” in order to sign players, he didn’t pay players anything, and while lying is bad to me it’s not something that merits a firing 100% of the time. If he gets a show-clause then that’s that, and the NCAA will have forced the Vols’ hand, but it would be interesting if a minor violation coupled with lying — and a good attitude about it after the fact — warrants much more than what UConn got hit with for Major recruiting violations.
If I were part of the NCAA infractions committee I would have to ask myself if firing a coach who has — really — played within the rules better than many currently coaching and who has shown a commitment to hold his players accountable is better than giving him other penalties on par or slightly above that which they handed out to a school that blatantly broke rules pertaining to competitive advantage. The NCAA is and needs to be, first and foremost, an institution that ensures the fairness of athletics and the importance of the student-athlete. It would be a strange message to send to say that cheating is more okay than lying.
______________________________________________
That's (333333jorkland)^2 and $$$$$$$$immons to you, chump.
Even John Calipari doesn't have a show-cause....
/ducks
It’s a joke people….
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
John Calipari also doesn't have a final four.....
/truth’d.
______________________________________________
That's (333333jorkland)^2 and $$$$$$$$immons to you, chump.
How many 5 star recruits does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Just one, and a coach to drop f-bombs on them because the Dribble-Drive Offense still only works in Conference USA.
______________________________________________
That's (333333jorkland)^2 and $$$$$$$$immons to you, chump.
by bobothevol on Feb 24, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He would have taken another job instead of crying at a presser
/joke
/truth
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
bruce pearl may not be
the true physical embodiment of the Tennessee Men’s BBall program, but without him there’s simply not much of a program for anyone to embody.
UT should fight the NCAA to the ends of the earth and keep our guy. without him, this is, always has been, and always will be, a football school with a BBall sideshow. few people can accomplish what Pearl has, and firing him would erase most of that hard work. if we are going to lose the guy, it should only be as a result of nuclear punishment from the NCAA, which quite frankly we do not deserve for these meager violations.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
by hal41605 on Feb 24, 2011 12:19 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
It's a travesty I can only rec this once.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
You're pretty good with them werds and thangs
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
It is obvious that some fans feel this way...
… notably you and VolBrian on this board. But I think that attitude is not only inaccurate, but just as bad as the “belly-up” attitude VolBrian was lamenting up above. Bruce Pearl is not the embodiment of UT basketball any more than Phil Fulmer was the embodiment of UT football. Yes, Pearl has given us national relevance recently after a few lean years, but you act like it is the first time we have ever had something worth watching here in Knoxville that wasn’t football.
Bruce doesn’t wear the orange blazer because it looks good, guys. We have basketball tradition here that goes back a lot farther than Bruce Pearl and Jerry Green.
We hired a coach six years ago who has given us a lot of good times, but at a cost that we don’t exactly know yet. To act like it would be impossible to ever hire another good coach again is just silly.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Feb 24, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I think this is where I kind of stand
For me I didn’t follow Tennessee Basketball until 2005 when I started school there. Consequently Bruce Pearl is the only Tennessee coach I’ve ever really known. I love the guy, love his presence on campus, and love that even when we lose I know he’s giving every ounce of his passion courtside.
I don’t want him to go… but if he does, we’ll be ok.
Bring it across, shape it down
by Getoffmyvols on Feb 24, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
I think it is easy to support Bruce
without saying that he is our entire program and we are nothing without him. I love him as a coach and I think he should stay as long as it does not do serious, lasting damage to our program. I do think there is a point where we should cut our losses but I don’t think that point is clearly here yet
I like orange and I am a dog person
I'd again point back to the attendance numbers
up 7,000 on average over Buzz’s final season, up 4,000 on average over the entire history of Thompson-Boling pre-Pearl. I think it’s a safe assumption that around 25% of UT basketball fans are fans only because of Bruce Pearl. So yeah, I think at least 3/4 of us will still be around and still follow, and Tennessee Basketball will certainly go on. But will everybody follow, especially if/when the new guy struggles to replicate Pearl’s uncanny immediate success?
This isn’t a stone cold reason to keep Pearl, but I guarantee you it’s something Hamilton has already thought about long ago.
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
I like this reaction
As well. I think we have a good program, a good team, we had a good coach.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Are we really going to pin our justification for keeping him with a half hearted “Well all the other coaches are doing worse”?
That doesn’t work for my 6 year old anymore than it does for a multi million dollar college sports program.
BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." John Heisman
by Joseph Stanley on Feb 25, 2011 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bruce Pearl is a sociopath. That's reason enough to fire him.
In 1988, when he was coaching at Iowa, a prospect he was recruiting chose Illinois instead. He turned in Illinois to the Infractions Committee, saying that they gave the recruit a car. The NCAA investigated and did punish Illinois, but for totally separate reasons: Pearl lied to the NCAA about the car. Four days after his tearful press conference where he apologized to you Tennessee fans and was so very sorry for lying the the NCAA, he committed another brazen violation.
Let’s say Pearl somehow survives this season. He’s lied at least twice to the NCAA and feigned remorse and regret to you. Why wouldn’t he keep doing what he’s doing? Why would he reform and run a clean program if the fans are willing to excuse whatever he does, so long as he wins? What’s to keep the NCAA from nailing Tennessee with a lack of institutional control when they bust him again?
I really don’t want to see Tennessee get nailed or see Volunteer fans suffer, but if this is your attitude and Pearl doesn’t resign or get fired at the end of this season, it’s going to happen, sooner or later.
Ann Arbor has loose morals.
Pearl was told they got him a car by the recruit
that is not Pearl telling a lie, that is him repeating a lie told to him by someone who is pretty freakin reliable about the circumstances.
You really should get your facts straight before throwing accusations like being a sociopath around. I would say the program is pretty clean too, none of this is a situation if he does not lie here.
I like orange and I am a dog person
Hell, we all hate each other.
But I’m an OSU fan. I think we’re the only ones who insult Miss Arbor’s honor, but maybe I’m mistaken.
Ann Arbor has loose morals.
I thought that MSU fans did as well.
But again, I’m not up there.
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Alright, let’s give you the benefit of the doubt and say that he was motivated by a respect of the rules and not petty jealousy. With that in his past, openly breaking the rules (he told Craft and/or Selby that it was a violation for him to host them at his barbecue) and lying about breaking them later makes him an enormous hypocrite.
I don’t think Tennessee has a problem with the culture surrounding the basketball or football programs, the problem is that Hamilton won’t fire Pearl after all that’s happened when he obviously needs to fire him. When Hamilton and Pearl leave, Tennessee won’t be an any danger.
Ann Arbor has loose morals.
ha why does it either have to be respect of the rules or petty jealousy
If I am trying to buy some land for a shopping mall and a rival developer buys it out from under me. Does it matter why i turn him in for getting the land through illegal means when I am told by the landowner that he only sold it to the rival because he broke his arm and threatened to kill his family? I don’t really think so and I don’t think it is petty jealousy regardless of my motivation.
Keep in mind I do not defend his lying at all, but it is not hypocritical necessarily. He did not turn the other coach in for lying. He turned him in for buying a recruit a car, there is a big difference. PEarl himself did not give any illegal benefits either, so still not a hypocrite, just a liar (and only on one instance that we actually know of). having the recruits over to a BBQ is a secondary violation and not for illegal benefits. Knoxville BBQ just isn’t that good sorry. The rule he broke was having a recruit over to his house. Whole thing is whether he lied about. the sitation with the illinois coach probably pissed a lot of people off but i don’t see how it is relevant or even reflects poorly on him from the facts I know about the situation. maybe you hate snitches but that could be seen as a negative about you just as easily as it is about the person snitching
I like orange and I am a dog person
Pearl is from Boston
I’m sure it’s not real BBQ.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
At a catered party...
I’m guessing it was Buddy’s. Not bad, but certainly not worth all this.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
So, what’s the best BBQ? If tomato-based is out (I’m guessing so since it’s the northern base), is it vinegar? Mustard?
Ann Arbor has loose morals.
It has to be smoked to be BBQ
First off. The sauce isn’t what makes it, it’s the manner of cooking. Across the South, there are several different preferences regarding sauces. South Carolina uses a mustard base, North Carolina a vinegar base, and Tennessee a tomato base. My favorite BBQ place (Ridgewood in Bluff City, TN. seriously, if you’re ever in East TN, you have to eat there) smokes super thinly-sliced ham and has an amazing tomato based sauce. It’s been called the best BBQ place in the country, and I believe it.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
The best ribs EVER
and also very good pulled pork at
Prater’s in Morrison, TN
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Naw
Steve’s Landing in Chattanooga (Soddy-Daisy actually) is the best ribs. On top of that, you can be on the lake all day and just dock your boat right outside their door. It’s easier to get to on the water than on the road.
Best ribs around and some good corn fritters too. That’s fried creamed-corn for you Yankee interlopers.
Seriously, you get a bunch of Southerners arguing about BBQ and this thread will quickly becoming the most commented in SB Nation history…..
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
I'll agree with your last sentance...
But not the first one! ;-)
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I won't get into the ribs discussion
Because I tend to go for sliced or pulled pork BBQ. But seriously, if y’all haven’t had Ridgewood (they don’t have their own website—hole in the wall joint), you need to.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
And if anybody wants the quick and easy method,
just put some pepper on the ketchup on your fast food burger. Done!
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
does Hooper mock BBQ?
damn Yankee
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Heh.
I lived in mustard land for a while -not really my taste, but not bad. But I do have to confess that I often don’t taste a huge difference between all these BEST PLACE EVAR barbecue joints.
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
well, I've never been to another place
with such a high billing. But Ridgewood lives up to its. Certainly the best place I’ve ever been, and even if it doesn’t stand alone as the best out there, it’s in the top tier of super-awesome and fairly indistinguishable spots.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Bein a Tennessee boy, I hate to pick someplace in frickin Mississippi...
but Abe’s in Clarksdale. You could move there, buy a house across the street, and die a happy man. WHILST LIVING IN CLARKSDALE. Stupid good.
Praters doesn't have a website either...
the link was to some reviews. Their building is like three double wide trailers cobbled together. Nothing fancy, but some GOOD eats.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I'll have to write that down for if I'm ever in Morrison
and you write down Ridgewood for if you’re ever in the Tri-Cities. Deal?
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely.
You have to try it all to know which is the best!
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
well, one is ribs and one is sliced ham
So there’s no reason they can’t both be the best at what they do. But I’ll never complain about trying good BBQ.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Oh okay, gotcha....
I was confusing Ridgewood with Brian’s place mentioned above in Chatt-Town.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Vinegar-based BBQ can die a fiery death.
Nothing’s wrong with Buddy’s, but it’s not good enough to cause all this. (And that doesn’t mean tomato-based isn’t the nectar of the gods, either.)
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Feb 24, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
I don't mind vinegar-based in general, but it always tasted like a cop-out.
Vinegar absorbs more quickly than the other styles so you can cut down your prep time.
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
Being a guy who lives in Missouri
KC style BBQ all the way! :)
BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." John Heisman
by Joseph Stanley on Feb 25, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions
I'm very sorry, but we're mortal enemies now.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Feb 25, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
Your first example doesn’t fit. If a rival developer gets to buy the land because he extorted the landowner, he broke the rules in getting the land. That’s not what happened at Illinois. They did nothing improper in the recruitment of the player, which is what Pearl accused them of doing: what the NCAA ended up punishing them for was unrelated, something that Pearl had no way of knowing. Here is a brief overview of the case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Pearl#Pearl.2FThomas_incident
The best analogy, would be using evidence you know is weak to accuse the other person of extorting the landowner and being totally wrong, BUT getting the other person in trouble because they under-report their income.
I have a problem with what he did not because he “snitched” but because he reported Illinois under the guise of respecting the rules when it’s pretty clear he was trying to get revenge. Now that he’s openly broken the rules, he appears amoral.
Ann Arbor has loose morals.
you miss the point i made previously and which you seemed to accept somewhat
the player told pearl that the coach bought him a car, it really is no different than what I said. I did not go further in my example and say after i turned them in it turned out the landowner lied to me because I honestly don’t think it matters. If you say it is not wrong in my example it is not wrong after that. You cannot help that someone who shouldn’t have any reason to lie and was one of the 2 parties involved decided to lie to you.
I would say more than half the time in that situation the guy did get a car. That wiki link is extremely brief and is no different from what I already said happened.
It also seems pretty obvious the guy was cheating anyway. Is it so hard to believe that Pearl had a lot of suspicions about this and the phone call was the evidence he had been waiting for?
I like orange and I am a dog person
I would have NO care about a coach's motives
if they turned in Calipari in the same situation. everyone thinks he’s a cheater and you have a kid saying he bought me a car, who wouldn’t turn him in? I don’t care if it is Pitino or Pearl or someone else with bad blood between them. I see nothing petty in finally getting someone you just know deep down has been cheating. I guess the kid lied in the recording Pearl made, but clearly the investigation turned up a lot of other major violations so I don’t even see what is so bad.
I like orange and I am a dog person
and turning someone in does not have to be because you are acting like you are a shining beacon
or just really respect the rules. It can be just because you want to see someone pay the piper. it is called cheating for a reason, it gives you an unfair advantage. That would probably make me mad in such a highly competitive forum like college athletics and I can’t say I wouldn’t turn someone in if I had proof (or what I thought was proof-clearly it was enough proof for the NCAA to start investigating). Doesn’t really matter if motives are selfish because unfair advantages are, well, unfair.
I like orange and I am a dog person
Didn't do anything wrong?
Illinois was hit with multiple major violations because of the investigation that Bruce Pearl started. Did the NCAA hit them with the one thing Pearl turned them in for reportedly doing? No, but I have a hard time believing that just because that charge didn’t stick that Bruce didn’t understand that something bad was going on. Let’s not act like if the NCAA doesn’t say you did it, then you didn’t do it. There’s a concept of guilt and innocence that has to be proven in lieu of the facts.
No, the better analogy is that you accuse the other person of extorting the landowner and not being proven right, BUT getting the other person in trouble for extorting other landowners and for still being a dirty character.
Those people who would condemn both Pearl for turning in Illinois and Pearl for lying are fiddling with the height of hypocrisy, as concepts such as “Truth” don’t only apply to cases when it’s the social norm to not be a “snitch”. You can’t have it both ways: if you want Bruce Pearl to be in trouble for lying now then you have to accept that he did the right thing in the Thomas Incident.
______________________________________________
That's (333333jorkland)^2 and $$$$$$$$immons to you, chump.
by bobothevol on Feb 24, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it is most like
Miss St. coaches reporting to the NCAA that Cam Newton was looking to get paid. If Auburn got the ncaa smack down would Mullen have been black listed the way Pearl was?
If you win all your fights, you're pickin em
by imhugeinjapan on Feb 25, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
you're crazy to think that UT Basketball can't be successful without Pearl
and to risk “nuclear punishment”? That is insane! If that is really what’s at risk, they should fire him right now!
How in the world did this post get a thumbs up?
by golfballs03 on Feb 25, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Looks like somebody...
doesn’t have much respect for an opinion that doesn’t line up with his own.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Also...
flagged.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
May I ask why?
I was called Glenn Beck yesterday. Did you flag that?
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Feb 25, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Was that an insult?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I suppose it depends on your opinion of Beck...
… but based on the context in which it was made, it didn’t seem to be intended as a compliment.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
But to answer the first question...
I flagged it as inappropriate because I don’t think it’s appropriate for someone to just jump in and call a respected member of our community “crazy” and “insane”, and then go on and attempt to insult those who agreed with him by recommending the comment.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Feb 25, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As golfballs03 is an equally respected member of our community
I’d simply say that this situation clearly has a way of making us all a little crazy at times
by Will Shelton on Feb 25, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough...
I just dislike name-calling.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
calling a person crazy and calling an idea crazy is different
an important distinction in heated discussions like these
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 25, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
by the way
how do you read Talking Chop without getting offended? If I recall, their threads are often profanity-laced. Do you flag every comment over there?
Nope...
but the standards there are not nearly as high as they are here. Also, I was not offended, I just said I didn’t like it.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Also...
I avoid the open game threads like the plague…they are the worst, which is a shame, because they used to be great before the number of users exploded.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
You mean over there, right?
Not here? ;-)
by David Hooper on Feb 25, 2011 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
The game threads here are wonderful – I wish I could participate in more of them.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I usually lurk in those
so much going on all at once, hard to keep up. It’s a bittersweet problem to have, so many commenters that it’s hard for the game threads to be about quality instead of quantity…plus, it’s baseball, and everybody’s got an opinion about every pitch.
by Will Shelton on Feb 25, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
SORT OF CONFLICTED
But definitely leaning toward the VolBrian / bobo opinions. I’m not trying to be unfriendly; I have no real problem with fans of other teams giving their opinions, but their opinions are pretty much worthless, because there’s no way they can be objective.
I don’t really understand what we’re voting on here, anyway. Are you asking:
1)If we receive the following punishment, should we fire BP as a result? This would be a firing for “PR” purposes or to punish him.
or
2) If firing BP would prevent a certain punishment from being imposed, how bad would that punishment have to be before you fire him?
Those are two different questions, and my answer might be different depending on which is being asked.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Objectivity
I wouldn’t say their opinions are worthless on the basis of lack of objectivity (because that would render our opinions worthless too.) Just that they need to be taken with an appropriate grain of salt.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Feb 24, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
meh i do not think they could even begin to pretend any personal connection
we have. I would say most of them are pretty worthless in my opinion especially considering most of the opinions i see out there. Public opinion seems to depict him as a monster which i would assume even the Tennessee fans that would like to see him leave would know is inaccurate
I like orange and I am a dog person
The poll is based on the assumption that we want Pearl to stay
though I included the first option in there, which is picking up more votes than I thought it would (though some of that is the increased presence of non-UT fans on the site today, methinks).
It’s done in the sense of “What punishment would make you say, okay, we need to go in another direction.” It’s not necessarily “Should we fire Bruce as a RESULT” or as a preventative measure, more of at what point would our basketball program be better off without him.
For instance, I voted for multi-year suspension – I think we could take the hit on a year, but more than that I just don’t see how keeping Pearl would be reasonable or what’s best for us.
I’m sure I’ve just confused everyone even further.
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
I followed
I still say one year suspension. And I also think that we better do whatever we do this March (before the punishment is handed out), so Hammy better know what to expect.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Note on the poll
We’re getting a ton of traffic from outside sources today, most notably EDSBS. So take the results with a grain of salt – higher volume of non-UT fans on the site today than usual.
I don't give a [fulmerized]...
what anyone else thinks about my basketball program… All I’ve heard for years and years from fans of every other is that we cheat more than anyone in the history of the planet. The fact is, we’re WELL below almost anyone else in terms of infractions.
We’ve been popped two times, both related to football under Johnny Majors… who is beloved among other programs, Alabama in particular, for obvious reasons.
Seriously, two times we got hit… Auburn has been hit 7 times, Kentucky and Georgia 6, Mississippi State and Alabama 5, South Carolina, Florida and Arkansas 4, and Ole Miss 3. We’re tied with LSU for next to last in the conference… and even Vandy has been popped one time.
If Tennessee fans are looking for approval of some kind of squeaky clean image… it’s just not going to happen. Job could be running our program, and believe me it sometimes feels like it, and people would still believe that we sacrifice kittens to the devil in exchange for wins.
Take your medicine, and put him on a short leash if the NCAA doesn’t force him out. Anyone who expects us to be able to walk out and hire an amazing coach if we’re on probation based on our fantastic roster is living in fantasyland. I can promise you that Hopson and Tobias will be on the first train out of Knoxville… along with every recruit we have potentially decomitting, if Pearl is forced out, and without them I’m not sure if Coach Wooden himself could have gotten us beyond the NIT next season. Odds are that anyone proven would tell us to call them back when the probation is over, so we’d have to take another chance on a coach… and while you might land another Pearl, you might also land another Buzz or Wade. You just don’t know until you start playing some actual games.
I don’t underestimate us, as I really think we have some HUGE built in recruiting advantages that we discount in our accessibility and border status to so many talent rich states… but I could seriously see us going from an NCAA contender to Auburn-esque in a single offseason if things go wrong. And of course I’ll be back to listening to us lose games to UTC on the radio while 80% of the Tennessee fan base gets back to ignoring basketball.
by Caban on Feb 24, 2011 4:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
my actual point...
is just that I’m not getting rid of him just to prove a point, I’d need to know that in terms of cost/benefit that retaining Coach Pearl wasn’t worth it.
This is a guy who has been a head coach for 19 seasons now… and this is his first real run in with the NCAA. There is no evidence he is a serial violator.
by Caban on Feb 24, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with your overall point
That we don’t get rid of him unless the NCAA forces him out. But I also think that we have to act before the punishment is meted out, which means that if we’re on the market for a new coach, it’s before any possible scary sanctions. Which, by the way, I don’t think will come. Pearl will get hit the hardest. But it’s absolutely vital that Hammy ascertain what’s going to happen before it happens.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Is that possible?
I mean don’t they play their cards pretty close to the chest?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
If Hammy can't figure it out
He has to make an educated guess, and he has to guess right. If he retains Pearl and then gets hit with a 1-2 year suspension, our basketball program is sunk for the foreseeable future and he’s out as AD. He probably has a little more leeway if he fires Pearl and the penalty is less severe, but he’d better make damn sure the new guy is good.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
at the same time isn't there a chance hammy could keep him as an offering
i mean say we fire him and they have noone to punish now, wouldn’t having him around to serve up be in our best interest? TOTALLY BEING DEVIL’S ADVOCATE I don’t want him gone or him to be used like this but there are reasons to keep him now even if you think he should be fired
I like orange and I am a dog person
IS is right about the timing, though.
The NCAA ruling will come at the worst possible time to hire a new coach. Nobody will be available that would make UT fans happy; we’d have to try to pull an assistant off somebody else’s staff or get a geriatric retread.
If the NCAA’s ruling forces UT into a position where they have to get rid of Pearl, they need to do that ahead of the ruling so they can get a good replacement.
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Doubt a good replacement...
will want to come with the cloud hanging over us…
either way I have to believe we’ll be forced to take a retread or a n00b
I can only assume that Lane Kiffin will not be on the short list
I like orange and I am a dog person
There's still a lot to like about coaching at UT.
The players are still talented (even if they weren’t particularly coherent this year). The facilities and funding are amazing. The season ticket holders even cheer once every few games.
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think he should be fired
I think he should be fired if we have reason to believe the penalties will be too stiff. And no, I don’t think keeping him around would help. Losing Lane was the only thing that saved the football program.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
i think a lot of that has to do with the fact that he directly disobeyed our compliance dept
he kind of made it so they should just go after him. I am not sure if the same thing will apply to Pearl. I had not thought about the timing thing, I guess that is extremely important
I like orange and I am a dog person
I think it's the most important thing
and it scares the heck out of me. One thing is certainly: my opinion of Hamilton will be solidified for better or worse once this all goes down.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with that in a certain way.
Hamilton better not be caught surprised. If the NCAA’s hammer forces a termination of Pearl’s tenure here, Hamilton must have the hiring process done during hiring season or he’ll end up getting swept out at the same time. If we’re trying to hire a basketball coach in September, then he’ll never be able to bring in somebody that will please the fanbase, leaving him with the post-Pearl mess and an underwhelming hire for men’s basketball.
But I’m not sure we have to actually take action in all cases. UT has already levied some fairly hefty penalties on the staff. If UT doesn’t have to hire a new coach, they might as well stand on that unless these allegations have somehow completely changed the game.
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
when I say "act"
I mean either fire Pearl or keep Pearl. I guess some might not see the second as an action, so my earlier comment was ambiguous. But this is what I meant. Hamilton needs to be able to see what’s coming and act accordingly.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, then we're in agreement.
Yes, Hamilton has to get this right – either by knowledge or by fantastic guess.
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
I understand that his success makes it harder to get rid of Pearl, but if Tennessee keeps him and he does some other set of major violations or minor violations with lying, you’re going to get hit with a “lack of institutional control” charge. From my perspective that seems exceedingly likely.
Calipari is guilty as sin, and I’m sorry that you have to listen to the Kentucky fans claim he’s innocent while they badmouth your program. Regardless, this is a Kelvin Sampson situation waiting to happen, and the NCAA’s penalties will more than undo any good Pearl did for the program.
Ann Arbor has loose morals.
You're just flat wrong.
But, keep piling on. I know it helps you cope.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
…cope with what?
I really hope for the best for you guys. After all the crap you’ve had to deal with via Kiffin, you don’t deserve any more.
Ann Arbor has loose morals.
The grudge you carry against Pearl
I know you are relishing in the schadenfreude so I don’t really care, but let’s at least be up front about that fact when you are throwing words like hypocrite around…
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Why would I have a grudge against Pearl? UT beat OSU in the Sweet 16 last year, but OSU beat UT in 2007. I don’t like him because he’s unethical.
Ann Arbor has loose morals.
I'm just not sure...
How one thing in 32 years of coaching makes everyone seem to believe he is the most unethical guy in basketball.
He’s not the most unethical (that’s probably Calipari or Sampson or Tim Floyd), it just seems pretty clear cut that he should not be back next year.
Ann Arbor has loose morals.
I still don't know why you say he knew the kid was lying
clearly he had suspicions enough to tape the conversation, i doubt that is common practice-ESPECIALLY if he is consistently unethical. who would want proof of that? Clearly that coach was up to no good. i still don’t see what all the beef is for
I like orange and I am a dog person
Don't lump Kentucky in on this
Jim Tressel has blood on his hands too.
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
I’m talking about basketball only; football is a different beast (I disagree about Tressel, but this isn’t the forum for that argument). The Calipari jab was gratuitous, unimportant to the argument, so please disregard it if you think it’s unfair. Regardless, from a risk/reward standpoint, Tennessee has more to lose than gain by keeping Pearl.
Ann Arbor has loose morals.
I agree on your risk/reward comment, unless both of these things are true
1. Mike Hamilton is fair certain that Pearl won’t get a year or more of suspension.
2. Mike Hamilton is fair certain that he can keep Pearl in line. He doesn’t have a history of violations, but something like that September 14th bump rule could send the NCAA in because they still don’t like him.
It’s not crazy to think both of these things are true, and if they are, I’d like to keep him around. If they aren’t, it’s awful risky.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Do you have confidence in Hamilton’s judgment? Maybe the view is different in the Vol fandom, but from an outside perspective I wouldn’t trust his judgment. This is mostly based on the Kiffin hiring and Pearl defense, but I defer to your experience.
Ann Arbor has loose morals.
There are some things that Hamilton does REALLY well.
He’s a fantastic fundraiser and has been absolutely terrific with building renovations / new builds / etc. He’s also reorganized the department in some badly needed ways. Without going into the ugly details, running the show is actually cheaper than it was before he started.
But that’s all stuff that never makes news. It’s the hiring and monitoring thing that has him with egg on his face.
by David Hooper on Feb 25, 2011 6:15 AM EST up reply actions
I don't trust Hamilton's judgment right now
If he handles this well, I will trust him. If he handles this poorly, I’ll want his head. I’m just saying that if he can answer yes to both those questions, he should keep Pearl. It won’t take long to vindicate him. If he can’t answer yes to both questions, he should fire Pearl.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 25, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
But then I haven’t liked Hamilton since Fulmer, so I am openly admit bias.
BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." John Heisman
by Joseph Stanley on Feb 25, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
well, it looks like the football side is doing okay
as they’re the ones keeping us out of trouble on that side. But for the rest of things. . . YES!
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Which is fantastic since a majority of these posts seem to favor a return to basketball mediocrity and also-ran
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
to be fair
Your definition of “favor a return to basketball mediocrity and also-ran” is highly non-standard. Most of us believe we can be good at basketball without Bruce Pearl.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
It's not that we *can't*
I’m just not real sure we will. I could see another 10-year 90s-like drought as totally possible, and maybe even expectable. The traditions of winning that make a program desirable for both coaches and players take time to build/rebuild; Having decent, reasonably competitive teams 20 years ago doesn’t qualify as that. To be frank, as I see it we’re a football school that has lucked into a very, very talented coach. In basketball we’re just not a premier program (yet), and there is absolutely no guarantee that we’ll have anything like that luck again anytime soon supposing we sack Pearl.
by _trey_ on Feb 24, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Yes.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Good at basketball?
Is that defined as the Green, Petterson, or Houston ers?
I mean, sure, we’ll have occassional success down the road, but I don’t really think someone new is gonna come in and keep us from becoming a pure football school again with now dreams of Elite 8’s or number one rankings. More like considering making the tourney a successful season and 5-20k in attendance being great…..
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
by VolBrian on Feb 24, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Multiple typos in that
But my point was, say bye to Pearl and say hello to 5-10k in attendence and successful season as defined by even making the tourney at all whatsoever.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Agreed.
The other thing about this is that the allegations are pretty lame, ya’ll. The only really worrying thing is the 4-day-after-sobfest violation- which, again, is alleged. Pearl hasn’t done a lot recently to improve his own credibility (har), but it’s totally possible that that particular situation may well turn out to be considerably less scummy than it seems. Looking at it this way, which admittedly may be through glasses so orange tinted as to be opaque, seems to me about the best we can do right now.
Look- let’s not kid ourselves here. You wanna kill a cow, you better be ready to make a burger. Tennessee basketball will be a big gross clusterf*** supposing Pearl leaves/ is fired. Maybe not forever, but for a good long while. But hey- we’re not anywhere near the most corrupt team in the SEC, much less the NCAA! It ain’t pretty, but I’d rather stick with the team and the coach than get all queasy and acting shocked! SHOCKED! when we hear some iffy details on how the delicious win-sausage may or may not be made.
by _trey_ on Feb 24, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No
There is no reason to think this is the ceiling without Pearl. We had an AD who hated basketball during the Green, Peterson, and Houston eras. We have wonderful facilities and are an up and coming program. There’s no reason to think our next hire will bring us back to the 90s.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
i don't think people are properly appreciating
how lucky we were to land pearl. extremely competent, extremely charismatic, but held to only mid-major opportunities because he broke “the code” some 20 years ago. we simply could not have gotten a better hire for a guy to bring a never-has-been program to this level this quickly (and no, winning an SEC tournament in 1979 is NOT a big deal). i don’t see how you can look at the pearl era as anything but UT winning the lottery. guys like pearl just don’t exist in large quantities, and most of his caliber are already at dream jobs.
anything is possible, however considering the smoking hole that the roster will be if he gets canned, we will be right back at square one hoping to strike gold twice in a row. it just doesn’t happen very often. there is an unbelievable amount of risk involved in making this coaching change, and just because we made a phenomenal hire once has no bearing on our ability to do it again.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
by hal41605 on Feb 24, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree
well, I agree with how lucky we were to land Pearl. But our program is in a different place now, and we’re in a better position to hire a good coach. We’ve been to five NCAATs in a row and made three of the last four Sweet Sixteens. That’s quite a bit different than being among the dregs of a mediocre conference in need of complete rehabilitation.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
See...
the way I see it, no way are we now in a position to hire a better coach.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
unless we get hit with a postseason ban
Which I think is highly unlikely, the program is in a better position than it was when we hired Pearl. So we’re in a position to hire a good coach, if we have to. Maybe not a better program-builder, but one who can build on Bruce’s success.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Though if we strike out (totally possible)
In 3 years we’re back to square one. No, actually, we’re at like minus-five square.
then we'd better not strike out
changing coaches is always a risk. the trick is determining whether or not it’s warranted.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
It's a cost/benefit thing
And unless the NCAA is dead-set on blowing us out of the water if we keep Pearl, I’d say the costs are are insurmountable unless you’re seriously overestimating the state/prestige of the program
I agree that it's a cost/benefit thing
and that the cost is high. Really, our difference is between a one year show-cause and a two year show-cause. I think reasonable people can disagree there. If you think it’d take a two year, I think you’re overrating Pearl or underrating the state of our program. Obviously, because I think it takes one year, you think I’m underrating Pearl or overrating the state of our program.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Fair points, but I don't think others are properly appreciating...
… that if the NCAA does its worst to us, our roster will still be a smoking hole and we’ll be at Square One anyway. We’ve seen what Bruce Pearl can do with a fully operational program. Would he be this effective with reduced scholarships and no NCAA tournament to sell to recruits?
I posted earlier today that I am not in favor of firing Bruce Pearl. I don’t know where I stand on that. But my posts the last couple of hours may have made it seem like I want him gone. I guess I’m playing devil’s advocate to some degree, but I am mainly arguing against the idea that some people seem to have that Pearl is untouchable and that it would be ridiculous to fire him. I also disagree that firing Bruce Pearl would guarantee an eternity of basketball mediocrity at best.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
The way I look at it...
It’s going to be a pretty smoky hole either way. I’d rather have Pearl in that hole that anyone who would want to be in a smoking hole.
Did that make sense?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Now I'm starting to see where our differences lie
I think the NCAA will hit the coach harder than the program, both because hitting the coach is a way of hitting the program (forcing us to get rid of a successful coach) and because their beef is with the coach in the first place. If this is the case, and Bruce is suspended but we don’t have a post-season ban or anything too bad, we need a new coach.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
Also, gotta remember that when Pearl came in
we had no idea that C.J. Watson and Chris Lofton would turn into C.J. Watson and Chris Lofton. While we may not be talking about playing a 6’4" point guard at power forward with any new coach, I’m not sure we’re going to luck into those kind of players right away either.
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Ware and Jones have signed LOIs
Hall, Maymon, McRae, and Golden have potential to do something eventually. If our hypothetical new coach can recruit, there’s no reason to expect us to fall off the map.
Keep in mind I don’t really like the idea of firing Pearl, I just like it better than retaining him if there’s a show-cause coming
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
unless you can show me
Star UT BBallers driving Reggie Bush’s Escalade or using Derrick Rose’s test prep taking services, it’s not a firing offense to me.
NCAA BBall recruiting is a cesspool. no debating that. i’m not gonna turn on the best thing that ever happened to the program because of lies about hot dogs and hamburgers and a few too many phone calls. if someone can SHOW ME THE MONEY or prove that we were succeeding on the backs of truly ill-gotten recruits, i’ll change my stance. until then, this is the NCAA making a mountain out of a molehill, and Eff them for doing so.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
by hal41605 on Feb 24, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I understand...
But the crux of the Pearl situation isn’t his recruiting. It is his lying to the NCAA.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
And that's a problem to me.
That’s saying that telling one lie about a minor infraction to the NCAA is worse than doing something like paying for recruits or falsifying grades. I don’t think it’s worse.
As a parent, which would bother me more? My son drinking a beer before he’s 21 and telling me he didn’t OR my son robbing a liquor store and freely admitting to me that he did it. Uh…I’m pretty sure the second one would. For me to chose the first would be a pride issue; I would rather my son commit a big wrong against someone else than a small one against me. I think the NCAA has a pride issue.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I agree with you
Which is why I don’t think it’s about the crime but about the punishment. Although I will say that if he stays, our compliance department better keep a really damn close eye, because the NCAA won’t be friendly if something else happens.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's obviously not a firing offense
But my opinion doesn’t matter. If the NCAA thinks it’s worth a year or more suspension, we gotta do what we gotta do.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
i feel like they did a good job with the secondary violation machine that Kiffin was
they can’t help it if he decides to ignore their instructions. at least they caught it, right? I am not sure what they could have done differently with Pearl except maybe follow him on the walkthrough or camp out at his BBQs
I like orange and I am a dog person
You can't have Sandy Bell!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
@btcoop71
To all of you who are so adamantly against firing Pearl regardless of the outcome of June's hearing:
Is there anything Pearl could do that would make you think firing him is OK? What if he killed someone? Would it be OK to fire him then?
I joke, of course, but what he is accused of – and has admitted to – is pretty damned serious as far as NCAA violations go. I can understand not thinking he should be fired (and I may even agree with it) but to laugh at the idea so dismissively as if it is preposterous to even consider makes me wonder what it would take for you to think firing him would be justified.
I have enjoyed winning too. The past six years have been fun. But I do not for one second believe that Bruce Pearl is the only coach who can win at this school – history has proven otherwise. And I’m not sure how low into the NCAA violations pool I am personally willing to dip to get those wins.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
But wait, he's Jewish.
Mind = blown.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Would that mean he give Rommel some orders?
by VolnVA on Feb 24, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wHERE’S THAT WINNER GIF???? NOW!
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Ahh, here it is just for you VolnVA
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
It would've been even better if I hadn't failed so miserably at typing/grammar
But hey… a WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN is a WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN :)
OMG....
What if it was YOUR daughter?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I've been expecting that post all day tbh....
His cilice has been a little too tight for a long time me thinks……
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
did...
saying “just kidding” after basically implying that someone would throw away any ethical considerations out of greed, to the level of even forgiving murder doesn’t change anything.
Nobody was accusing anyone of anything until you started questioning the character of other posters. Your moral high ground is nonexistent.
I’m out
durrr....
it’s not that hard to figure out… when you imply that other people would be willing to forgive murder in exchange for wins in basketball it’s definitely something I would classify as a bit of a character attack.
Christ, I feel like I’m arguing with Glenn Beck.
You can't be serious.
If anyone is attacking character here, it’s you. If you read my post above and interpreted it as anything other than hyperbole, then you probably feel like you see Glenn Beck everywhere you look.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
I haven't heard anyone...
dismissively laughing at the idea of firing him, or say it was preposterous. I don’t think anyone here feels that way. The feeling is just that overall the benefits of keeping him outweigh the benefits of firing him.
And it would depend on the circumstances of the killing. :-)
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Read this:
And this:
VolBrian seems to think that firing Pearl would bring about the End Times.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
I've read the entire thread...
or I wouldn’t have made the comment. I don’t see the attitude that you seem to be talking about. I actually have thought it was a pretty even-handed discussion. Well, up until a few minutes ago. Now I see some frazzled nerves frazzling.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
but what I still fail to understand
is how 31% of us think we’re better off with a multi-year suspension and tournament ban than with a new coach.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree
But a lot of it depends on who we can get to replace him. Which is why I keep harping on timing.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
Fair point.
But a new coach is always a gamble. Pearl is a known (winning) quantity, so I vote keep him on barring some crazy 2-year ban or something.
Which is why I think retaining him in the face of a one year is a reasonable opinion
Even though I think it’s wrong. But I thought we’d all be able to agree that two years is crazy.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Keep in mind what Will said about lots of non-Vol fans voting in the poll...
… so it is obviously far from scientific. But I agree with you. It is astonishing that 31% of voters say keep Pearl no matter what. It is why I asked above what it would take to make these people think Pearl should be fired.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
yes it is a serious violation in the NCAA
but honestly focusing on that is just focusing on punishment. I would then base the decision to fire him on what is or is not acceptable for the school to face suspension wise. lets not act like it was the most serious crime ever like murder though. that is a bad comparison. I mean lying could be punished equally with murder under the criminal system but would that mean they are equally bad?
I like orange and I am a dog person
Since everyone seems to be misinterpreting something I thought was pretty clear, maybe it's me
I never equated anything Bruce Pearl did with murder. I never suggested that anyone here would be OK with him murdering someone. It was a hyperbolic/exaggerated example used to ask the same exact question that is the title of the poll at the top of the page.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
I followed
I guess people are a bit on edge, and the hyperbolic scenario was treated as an attack.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
the whole poll is based on question of how much penalty is too much so
I guess I can understand some frustration with the comparison to murder because it is unnecessary. I don’t misunderstand what you said, I am just trying to explain why you may have said more than you intended
I like orange and I am a dog person
not saying I was offended/upset because I assume you did not equate the two
I like orange and I am a dog person
Chuck Klosterman made this point on Bill Simmons' podcast once
about Michael Jordan – everyone considers him to be so incredibly high above everyone else, is there anything he could do to divorce us from the opinion that he’s not the greatest of all time? "What if it came out he put out a hit on Isiah Thomas? People would say, “See, look how competitive he is!”"
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
OMG!!!1!!
I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU WOULD SUGGEST SUCH A THING ABOUT MICHAEL JORDAN!
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
He was just a one-trick pony.
Score. Score. Score. Did he ever do anything else?
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
Or something.
That movie was sort of confusing.
by _trey_ on Feb 24, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
His T-shirt collars...
don’t roll up. That’s something right there.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I've never been there
but from what I hear, I may fit in there a little better than here. I’ve always thought that and at least the V,B crowd has the nuts to be indignant at all about someone wanting to callously dismiss someone who has done so much for an individual athletic program……
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
ha I assume callously refers to V,B?
they are funny sometimes but sometimes it is what I remember middle school was like
I like orange and I am a dog person
definitely good info and occassionally good insight
but sometimes all it takes is voicing a slightly different opinion and it turns into oddly angry insults or attacks
I like orange and I am a dog person
There are certainly all stripes at VN
And some who will agree with you. There are certainly lots of “fire him no matter what” people too. But I really don’t see how getting rid of Bruce would be callous. We could’ve let him go earlier, but we’ve given him an opportunity to keep coaching while the investigation goes on. If their projected punishment is bad enough, that was the risk he took when he lied. Best of luck to him, but I don’t see how retaining a coach who’s suspended for a year or more would do anything good.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
If we turn on each other
the terrorists win
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
is the "Terrorists" Kentucky?
______________________________________________
That's (333333jorkland)^2 and $$$$$$$$immons to you, chump.
I'm out, y'all enjoy.
All in favor of a contract extension for CBP???
Too soon???
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Well gee...
We’ll just have to see how many more wins we have this year before we make that decision, won’t we?
JUST JOKING, EVERYBODY
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
If that win is vacated,
the head coaching gig at Kentucky.
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
oh yeah...
me too.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Fired if he kills someone with scissors whilst cutting down the net........
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
I would assume he would have an aggravating circumstance for those
manslaughter is okay right?
I like orange and I am a dog person
In a simple yes/no poll at KNS
71% say they still support Pearl. That’s down from 80% after the eight game SEC suspension was announced in November, but is still a very healthy number.
Well as far as all this goes, nothing needs to be done in haste.
The NCAA ruling won’t happen for a long time. Even the earliest possible preemptive firing wouldn’t happen until the Vols are done with postseason play. There’s a world of time to decide things on the issue, which is partly why I don’t think I’ll have a real opinion for a while yet.
But having said that: no matter what we do with Pearl, the NCAA won’t change the penalties to UT. UT had their shot at self-penalizing; anything we do now will simply be considered another attempt to duck the NCAA’s penalties and likely dismissed. Firing Pearl will only help us avoid the penalties applied directly to Pearl.
If the penalty is a show-cause, and if UT decides to keep him, I’m not sure that it even affects Tennessee. If we decide to keep him hired here for the duration of the show-cause, then what’s the harm? It’s never been done before, so I don’t really know how the NCAA would handle that.
But when looking at the poll attached to this post, I don’t see any difference between options that differ only by the “NCAA Tournament ban” tag. We’ll have that ban (or won’t have it) regardless of whether we keep or fire him.
I've been hearing show-cause equated to "unemployable for the duration"
is that not what it means? Does it only mean he can’t change jobs? If so, then how much does it hurt us? Does it matter that he’s working without a contract?
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
show cause...
isn’t related to the infraction as I understand it, it’s a description of the penalty.
Basically just means that the coach isn’t banned, but will come with certain restrictions if employed… it’s different from an outright suspension.
i should amend that...
a coach can be suspended under show cause if a school attempts to hire him and the NCAA feels its a justifiable punishment… he just isn’t suspended, in that particular case, until the NCAA officially decides to suspend him.
See, that's what I don't know.
No coach has been given the show cause while still hired by the former institution. The show cause means that if somebody wants to hire the coach, they must “show cause” for the NCAA to approve the hire. But it’s ambiguous whether that affects the current employment. The NCAA cannot force a school to fire a coach; they can only stand in the way of a hire.
So if UT gets the contract finished prior to the penalty, the show-cause may indeed be moot.
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
ah, I see
so the real question is whether there will be a suspension of a year or longer. If there won’t be, we’ll need to finish that contract beforehand. if not, we’ll need to get another guy under contract beforehand.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty much.
I think that if a year suspension occurs, then we may very well see Hamilton fired by the end of the summer. depending on whether a new coach had been hired, the new AD would likely find a new hire during the 2012 hiring season.
But my fear there is that a new AD might want his own guy in at football coach, and for the sake of the football program I wouldn’t mind a couple more years of actual stability.
by David Hooper on Feb 24, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
Please...
let us have the sense not go hire Fulmer or someone with an emotional connection to the program. I don’t want us to go through what Georgia and Arkansas did with their former coaches in the AD chair.
We need to hire another guy similar to Hamilton, a business guy… but not the totally ruthless kind either.
I think he'd make a good AD personally
He knows the coaches, he knows the programs, he knows the boosters, he knows the school, it really is a win win situation.
But again I admit bias so feel free to ignore me :)
BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." John Heisman
by Joseph Stanley on Feb 25, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
ok...
in my own interest, I’m not going back to read the thread after I left…
I got upset about somethings that weren’t worth getting upset about, and I’d prefer to leave things at that.
Also… while we’re all reading this…
Wonderful Terrific Monds II just signed with Buffalo. Yeah, that’s seriously his name. Please let him find himself starting as a freshman just so I can hear his name announced over the PA.
I thought you just typed "Wonderful Terrific Monads"
Which would’ve been even funnier.
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
That is..
wonderfully terrific!
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
So disappointed...
I joined a facebook group called, “If We Get 1,000,000 members my sister will name her son Megatron”…
It got to 1mil in about 12 hours… she lied.
For those hung up on the "lying" part answer this question:
Where in unholy hell are all these coaches telling the truth to the NCAA about the violations they committed?
Calhoun? Denying knowledge and lawyered up.
Same with Kiffin, Auburn, Richt, and every other coach/administration caught cheating without photographic evidence.
Sure Calhoun can say he didn’t know what all was going on and as long as there’s no photo of him mean-mugging with a TracFone he’s in the clear but we all know he knew what was up.
We are here because Bruce did what every other coach did when confronted, he lied. When they showed him the photo he freaked and lied again. Without the photo, we have some secondaries and not even a blurb on ESPN.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Pearl's problem...
is that he admitted to lying.
It’s the same reason they tell you to shut up if you ever get arrested.
Who gave them that photo anyway?
And why? Shouldn’t that person and the program they are associated with be blackballed as SQUEALERS?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
In case nobody has seen this...
We need 108,000 of these delivered to Knoxville in time for the opener
I JUST SAW THE TIMELINE IN THE GEORGIA-FLORIDA GAME!!!!!!!!!!
WHY, ESPN, WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I take an ounce of pleasure
in the fact that I’m sure both Georgia and Florida fans are wondering the same thing
by Will Shelton on Feb 24, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, seriously everybody. We're up to 300 comments on this thread. Some are even early in the morning.
We all know we don't really care about basketball. Why is everybody wasting their time on this?
Fact:
Bruce Pearl IS Rocky Top Talk’s BBall discussion. Before him there was nothing.
The Dual Threat, Official Enforcer/Stat Geek of MCM.
by hal41605 on Feb 25, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This may be literally true.
I don’t think RTT even existed before Pearl’s arrival. That’s going back to View From Rocky Top days.
by David Hooper on Feb 25, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Football school all the way.
It’s either this or talk about Tyler Bray.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Feb 25, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Sing it, girlfriend!
Is that an orange dress she’s wearing?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Rocky Top Talk
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
SHOP THE ROCKY TOP TALK STORE
Animated Drive Charts
RTT Classics
