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FCS vs. FBS - How good are the best teams on the lower level?

(I'm going to continue to refer to them as "I would like to have seen" Montana, and I was going to link that clip here, but this is actually much better.  I would say spoiler alert, but if you haven't seen The Hunt for Red October by now there's something wrong with you.)

Montana, by classification, is lesser competition.  But by comparison to Tennessee-Martin, and perhaps even Western Kentucky two years ago, the Grizzlies are a more formidable opponent.  But as Tennessee or especially SEC fans, it's hard for us to measure exactly what it means that Montana is ranked 12th in the preseason FCS Coaches Poll.

I'm like you - I watch a lot of college football and digest a ton of information about the sport.  But looking at that FCS poll, you know what I can tell you about those teams without doing any research?  Eastern Washington has a red field.  Joe Flacco went to Delaware.  Northern Iowa beat Kansas in the NCAA Tournament two years ago.  Richmond gave us Dave Clawson.

These are the sort of small details we usually associate these teams with.  But with greater frequency every season, I can also tell you that this year's preseason #2 Appalachian State beat Michigan in 2007.  That #9 Jacksonville State beat Ole Miss last year.  And #16 James Madison did the same to a Virginia Tech team that won the ACC.

There are some great quotes in this story from Mark Schlabach (which includes a list of other FCS-over-FBS games) after the JMU-VT game last year, most of them from JMU head coach Mickey Matthews:

"The dirty little secret is the top six to eight teams at our level can play with anyone," Matthews said.  "We struggle to find guaranteed games because no one wants to play us.  I don't know if we're a Top 25 team on the FBS level, but I'm sure we're better than Virginia Tech wanted us to be.  They needed to play somebody they could dominate."

"I think when Appalachian State beat Michigan, you didn't hear any football coaches saying it was a big upset," Matthews said. "You heard a lot of media saying it was the greatest upset in college football history, but you didn't hear any football coaches saying it."

"Their top 50 players are better than our top 50 players," Matthews said. "But when you get out there 11-on-11, we can play with anyone."

Montana may not be James Madison, but the Vols may not be playing in a BCS bowl the way Virginia Tech did.  Most of us armchair quarterback types usually feel like we've got some idea what we're up against going into each game.  But I've never seen Montana play before.  I can't even tell you what their helmets look like.

On the spectrum between, "They're an FCS team, we're going to kill them" and the sort of coachspeak that makes Montana look like a Super Bowl contender, where should we fall?

Star-divide

If the Grizzlies are the 12th best team in the FCS, how does that relate to the FBS?  Conveniently, only 12 FBS teams won less than three games last season:  Akron, Memphis, New Mexico, and San Jose State each won just one game, and Bowling Green (give him time!), Buffalo, Eastern Michigan, New Mexico State, UNLV, Vanderbilt, Washington State, and Western Kentucky all went 2-10.

That's two Vol opponents from last year and one we'll see on October 1 this year.  Are the best 12 teams in FCS better than the worst 12 teams in FBS?

Granted, the Vols destroyed Memphis, so even if Montana was in the conversation with a team like Tiger High it woudn't be saying much.  And though the Vols struggled with the Commodores, the only reason Vanderbilt is on that list is because they play in the SEC.

But here's the point:  don't expect what you've seen in the last two season openers.

The Vols may still be able to line up and go right at Montana to win, but it won't be 50-0 or 63-7.  And that's okay.  There have been several UT teams in the past that didn't perform as well as we probably felt like they should have against lesser competition in the season opener, and still went on to have a great year.  The '89 Vols beat Colorado State 17-14 in the season opener.  The next week they won at #6 UCLA by eighteen points, en route to an 11-1 SEC Championship season.  The '95 Vols beat East Carolina 27-7, a number that didn't make anybody feel extra special about sophomore Peyton Manning and his offense.  They finished 11-1 and second in the country.  And the '03 Vols won a pair of games against solid mid-major competition to open the season with closer scores than we might've wanted - 24-6 over Fresno State, 34-24 over Marshall - then won at Gainesville in week three.

Tennessee is currently a four touchdown favorite, which has jumped about ten points since the line opened.  But even if Tennessee covers that original spread - say, 35-17 - it's not going to make anyone feel like we're a champion, but I'll take it.  I don't need this team to blow out Montana to prove anything to me.  I just need them to win, and I'd prefer to not be worried about it in the fourth quarter.

And here's the key to that:  get off to a good start.  

Here's one more from JMU coach Mickey Matthews:

"The biggest thing when you play Virginia Tech is surviving the first quarter," Matthews said. "They blow everybody out in the first quarter at Lane Stadium. I told the kids, 'Let's make sure it's a game at the end of the first quarter. Let's survive the noise and the crowd.' I told them we weren't playing the concrete and their fans."

If the Vols come out and turn the ball over and give up points, we could be in for a longer day than we originally imagined.  This will be an important point next week too, but Cincinnati is the sort of team that not only has the offensive firepower to make a comeback, they have veteran leadership and plenty of FBS experience.  Playing in Neyland Stadium will be a big deal to the Bearcats, but not nearly as big as it will be for the Grizzlies.  You have to go back to 2005 to find anything like this in their program, when Montana played at Oregon and some of the current players were in middle school.

How much of the coachspeak is true?  I don't know, but I do know I've seen enough top-tier FCS programs beat a wide enough variety of FBS programs to know there are no guarantees on Saturday.  Tennessee should take Montana seriously.  And then the Vols should be good enough to go get the job done.

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Good post

and Montana is even harder to get a read on than some others, because they haven’t played a good FBS team since 2006 (if you count that 2006 Iowa team as good), when they trailed 17-7 late in the third quarter before getting blown away 41-7.

Additionally, they have a new coach (and he’s in year two!), so we don’t know whether they’re going to get back to their decade of dominance. I will say I like them running the zone read better than the option. We defended the zone read against Oregon just fine until we wore out. And if there’s one advantage we should have over Montana this year, it’s not wearing out.

I’m on record as predicting 45-13, but 35-13 (or 42-17, or the like) wouldn’t surprise or disappoint me. They aren’t Western Kentucky. They aren’t UT-Martin. If they hold us under 30 or score more than 20, then I might be a bit worried. But I won’t fret because we don’t beat them like the rag doll they aren’t.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Aug 30, 2011 11:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah and I'm not counting Iowa at Iowa

as the sort of intimidating environment that Autzen was or Neyland will be. There will be a lot of moments this year when it’s important that Tyler Bray not throw an interception, but early in this game is definitely a big one.

by Will Shelton on Aug 30, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great...

Now I just went from mildy confident about the game to beind downright scared of Montana…thanks! But seriously, I don’t think Dooley and the coaches will have any trouble scaring our guys into thinking Montana can give us a heck of a game if we let them.

by Solid Orange on Aug 30, 2011 11:38 AM EDT reply actions  

Just want to make sure we cover all of our emotional bases, right?

Put it this way: I think UT beats UT-Martin and Western Kentucky 99 times out of 100. With Montana, it’s still a high number, but it ain’t 99. But as we’ve all said, these are all general assumptions about the nature of top-tier FCS teams and the wide variety of FBS teams they’ve beaten – and we all know UT hasn’t been the best team in college football the last three years.

The best thing to do is take it seriously. But still when you seriously look at it, Tennessee should win a significant number of times out of 100.

by Will Shelton on Aug 30, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

The one big difference I see...

is at QB…

App State and James Madison both had excellent quarterbacks who were fast enough to score TDs if contain failed.

Montana still doesn’t 100% know who their QB is, but its supposedly Jordan Johnson… a sophomore who will be starting his first game ever in Neyland. With 14 yards on 6 rushes last season, he’s not a running threat.

Their defense is going to be the problem for us, but it will take some pretty big lapses for us to lose this game.

by Caban on Aug 30, 2011 1:00 PM EDT reply actions  

That 2007 App State team

Sent quite a few players to the NFL, too. Armanti Edwards might not be getting a chance to play QB at the big-boys stage, but he’s shown flashes of why he’s so dangerous. If he was 4 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier, he’d be getting reps at QB.

______________________________________________
Pat Summitt is already a legend, and will always be a Hero.

by bobothevol on Aug 30, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

As a transplant from the great state of Tennessee to the great state of Montana...

I think we will be fine. Montana has two FCS schools University of Montana who we are about to play and Montana State.

For years Uof M was the big brother in this relationship, but now MSU has passed them up a bit. Both schools play very good football, and if we were playing the U of M from a few years ago I would say we should be a little worried.

However this team is fairly young its self. They have a QB controversy, and a new HC to lead to some of this. 11 vs. 11 like the article says I think we matchup bettter than them, but I think what really seprates us is three things:

 - first would be Depth, over the last two years we have gained some solid depth, where as their depth is going to be a lot lesser talent.

 - Second I think that we are bigger across the board.

 - And Third I think we are faster across the board.

You are right to mention that these guys are no push overs they are better than WKU, and UTM but I honestly beleive they will not be able to hang with us for a full game.

by bullrider73 on Aug 30, 2011 1:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Technically...

someone on their board posted the numbers, and they are actually a bit bigger than us on the DL, and about even on the OL and at LB.

Where we’ll really get them is definitely in speed and depth.

by Caban on Aug 30, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damn the torpedoes

Ain’t no way any amount of poormouthing Montana would make losing to them any less earth-shattering. Therefore I refuse to consider it.
Tennessee 389, Montana -13

by _trey_ on Aug 30, 2011 1:31 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

It was always funny to me that Sam Neil had that line.

Because of course he starts Jurassic Park in the Badlands of Montana.

If I hit a hole-in-one on this grand slam the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

by jasonkylebates on Aug 30, 2011 2:02 PM EDT reply actions  

So much has to be emphasized

On stepping on Montana’s throat early. I went to App State that year we beat Michigan, and let’s be honest: that Michigan team was pretty good. They outperformed a Heisman-Tebow-lead Florida team all over the field in their bowl game, the Outback (I think). You go back and watch that game, try to think how different it would be if ASU’s Dexter Jackson doesn’t get loose up the middle on App State’s first score?

Montana ranks in the “good” category of FCS, certainly, but like other’s have said, not the “great” the likes of which App State and JMU are. The thing that makes App, certainly, a bit different than many other schools is that they’ve started to attract some real talent. Certainly not the big stars or anything, but they’re getting players who would rather start for a “great” FCS team than be a #2 or #3 option elsewhere. Again, they had more players drafted last year than Tennessee did,

______________________________________________
Pat Summitt is already a legend, and will always be a Hero.

by bobothevol on Aug 30, 2011 2:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Good points

and it is questions that need to be looked at.
 It was not quite this time last year that Bleacher Report tossed up the question if these games should be banned.

Being a MSU student I have to use my Bears as an example.
The Bears are in the MVC conference and opening against Arkansas and the over all contention is that we will be slaughtered.

However last year we beat 3 of the top 25 and we beat 2 teams that made it to the Divison 1 play off’s.

Our running back Chris Douglas rushed for over 1,000 yards last season and wide receiver Jermaine Saffold caught 53 passes for 869 yards. We even signed two of our players to the NFL this years (which is pretty good consider that gives us exactly 4 for the life in the program…yes I said 4. We’re getting better dangit.)

Is any of that SEC quality? No. And the last time we played Arkansas ended up being a 48-10 debacle. Furthermore our starting QB Trevor Wooden has been suspended for the opening game for rules violations. Whoops.

But its a team that like Montana will come to play, because frankly, they want to prove themselves and they want the experience of going against the “big boys”. FCS and MVC teams are still playing football. They don’t attract the higher talent immediately, and they don’t have the scholarships or the budget to bring a lot of even 3 or 4 star talent in. However they make up for that in work ethic. Don’t mistake that they show up at the stadium expecting to get killed. They want to prove themselves as much as the next next guys.

Something else to consider:
 *FBS schools currently hold a 1740-388-17 (.815) all-time record vs. FCS schools.
*Buffalo is the only current FBS school to have a losing record vs. FCS opponents (2-4).(Honey please put down the knife….)
*As a FCS school Appalachian State has the most victories over major FBS opponents (8 wins).

 One more thing on Montana side is something that is not getting a lot of attention (at least not that I have seen out here in the Midwest). The fact that Joe Montana’s son, Grizzlies quarterback Nate Montana, was finally in court today.

Originally the school had said they would wait until after the trial before imposing their punishment. I haven’t seen anything else regarding it, but given the sentence today does that mean he too, might be riding the bench this weekend?

 It’s food for thought, anyway.

BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." John Heisman

by Joseph Stanley on Aug 30, 2011 6:13 PM EDT reply actions  

From what I gather...

he was going to be riding the bench anyways… Montana plans on playing 2 QBs, Jordan Johnson and Gerald Kemp.

by Caban on Aug 30, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

That .815 number

is in the neighborhood of what I feel like Tennessee’s chances are on Saturday. Four out of five times, we win. And several of those four times, we win easily. But the chance is still out there.

by Will Shelton on Aug 31, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Four out of five times?

I like those odds. That’s better than Sex Panther.

Lou Brock loves Lamp.

by birdjam on Aug 31, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

.815

Our number is higher than this. FBS and FCS bleed over from their top 25 or so to our bottom 25. A bcs conference team is rarely in the bottom 25 (though Kansas last year definitely was and wash St. several years running). Run the SEC numbers and then run them for sec teams that aren’t dreadful, we beat Montana much more like 9 times out of 10. Plus we have Tyler bray, whose right arm is arguably a magic wand. So 387 times out of 388 we prevail…roughly.

No homer.

by kidbourbon on Aug 31, 2011 10:36 AM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

"In the neighborhood" of .815

It’s a big neighborhood with optimistic residents

by Will Shelton on Aug 31, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I tried to find

A pure SEC measurement but I wasn’t able to sadly.
I confess to not being enough of a numbers whiz to put it together myself either. (So I’m lazy. Sue me. :) )
 I figured it the .815 was still a decent historical measurement for us to work off of.

That said bourbon is probably right with his figures I’d wager, it just sounds right anyway ;)

BloodSpite
"Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football." John Heisman

by Joseph Stanley on Aug 31, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

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