Will Sal Sunseri Be Tennessee's Next Defensive Coordinator?
According to multiple reports, Alabama outside linebackers coach Sal Sunseri will be in Knoxville today as a candidate to fill Tennessee's defensive coordinator vacancy. VolQuest says that Sunseri "has emerged" as the Vols' top target, and if Sunseri's in town to talk, he's at least interested despite the fact that he has a son who plays for the team he'd be leaving.
If all of that is true, it would explain the delay. I'm told that Randy Shannon was never a viable option. Kevin Steele and Ron Zook were both in play, but Sunseri is apparently who Tennessee really wants, and you can't really have serious in-depth conversations with him while he's preparing for the national championship. At least not publicly.
So who is this guy? The Alabama media guide, of course, says he's All That, including the kitchen sink and the bag of chips, and that he's fat- and gluten-free to boot. The puffery-free version: Sunseri walked-on at Pitt in 1978 and became a team captain and consensus All-American linebacker. His teams were 33-3, and he has a list of Playing Days Accolades that you'd expect from such an All-American with three losses.
Sunseri coached the defensive line and linebackers at Pitt in 1985 and was named assistant head coach in 1992. From there, he started climbing the zig zag coaching career ladder that the successful ones like so much, stepping early on Iowa Wesleyan and Illinois State and Louisville and Alabama A&M (as defensive coordinator and linebackers coach at the latter ladder). He then went to LSU to work with Nick Saban in 2000 and then to Michigan State in 2001 before heading off to the NFL's Carolina Panthers.
He began his time with Carolina as a defensive assistant in 2002 and took over as defensive line coach in 2003. There, he coached Pro Bowlers Julius Peppers, Mike Rucker, and Kris Jenkins, and had at least one Pro Bowl DL in five of six seasons.
Sunseri joined the Alabama staff three years ago and got a national championship ring his first season due largely to one of those excellent defenses Nick Saban likes to use. He now coaches the linebackers, is the team's "assistant head coach for defense," and was last seen dancing in his living room wearing nothing but his Official National Championship Locker Room Hat. I'm guessing at that last part, but it's what I'd do. You saw what 'Bama's defense did this season.
The question of whether the coach makes the players or the players make the coach is a particularly appealing false dilemma right now. Have Sunseri's teams been good because he's been there, or has he just been in the right place at the right time? I don't know. But I do know this. Folks tend to favor their own, and the guys making this decision -- Dooley and Hart -- are forever stained crimson and they think it's a good thing. And if we're being honest, it probably is. Hey, if we can repackage the same recent success in orange, we'd take that, right?
I'd say this is probably going to happen. We are too close to National Signing Day and too far from the resignation of Justin Wilcox and Peter Sirmon to make waiting any longer a viable option. Tennessee is expecting 8-10 official visitors (plus some unofficials) this weekend, and you'd think that having a coordinator hired would be a check mark on the right side of the ledger for those guys.
So what do y'all think? Would Sunseri be the best possible hire under the circumstances?
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Crimson, for coaches
is just another shade or orange?
"best possible hire under the circumstances?"
He seems to fit most people’s current needs of “just hire someone, damn it!”
That’s an impressive resume. Impressive enough, in fact, that it makes me wonder why he’s not currently higher in the food chain than outside linebackers coach. Is it just because he hasn’t stayed in one place long enough?
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
This is my question
OLB’s coach?? he coaches two players plus reserves? I prefer someone with Coordinator experience! Again he has been coaching since 1985 and yet Kirby Smart is the DC? I am trying to see the gold lining here but I am still not sure how much input any Defense coach has in Nick Saban’s team?? Are they just reiterating what Saban has said And finally if he is all that and a bag of chips why has someone else not offered him before now?
I'm gonna trust our AD, which came from 'bama and probably knows this guy well
And Dooley was on the staff with him at LSU in 2000. Both those guys know what Sunseri can bring to the table, and they like it if he’s their “first choice.”
And I know he only coaches “two guys,” but those two guys are phenomenal
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 11, 2012 8:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not Arguing with that
I am simply saying that gameplanning an entire Defense is much different than a one group of players. And yes I am going to trust Dooley’s opinion on HIS hire. I just fear that Dooley is more worried about the “wow” factor that everyone has been crying about on the radio and I just don’t think that should be important. My question is whether Sunseri is Dooley going for option B because he thinks this will appease fans because AL just won their 2nd Nat Title under Saban, and he was there for both.
I think Dooley's smart enough to know...
… that winning games will save his job and wow factor won’t, and I trust that he is making this hire to win football games.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
I think he did DC at some of those smaller schools maybe?
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 11, 2012 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
He's been around long enough that that shouldn't be a problem
Also CLT has tutored under some outstanding coordinators so he should be able to provide quality input to that as well.
I think the key will be calling the game and anticipating and countering offensive strategies in the heat of battle. But a lot of studly ‘Joes’ making plays helps cover up play calling issues.
What Dooley and Hart on the same page? Where's the drama in that?
We need a candidate that the rumor mongerers can jin up visions of huge schisms between our HC and AD and/or HC and assistants.
This logical process sequence just won’t do.
if you look.......
…..at his entire body of work, including the pros, he has done more than coach 2 players and reserves. As far as other teams he may very well have been offered other jobs that we just don’t know about yet but regardless of that fact he seems to have enough diversified experiance to have earned a shot at DC. If this is the hire nobody should be surprised that he came from "bama……
by Marooned Pirate on Jan 11, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
this worries me as well
25 years in coaching and no DC position at a D-I or NFL level?
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Apparently
I have been corrected and according to Volquest he has some Coordinator experience previously but that was a long time ago so this concerns me? But again I am not the coach and do not know what they know. And the reality is Dooley has made really good hires up to this point so I guess I should trust that if is his choice than he must be the right guy…. But that is definitely what jumped out at me
"the reality is Dooley has made really good hires up to this point"
Is that really the reality?
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Meh
I think I have reached my saturation point with DC candidates. Whoever they hire will suddenly be the perfect guy they wanted all along. The sun will rise and fall. Bottom line, as we all know, is that the product on the field will determine Dooley’s fate. The tea leaves of this hire (from the length of time it took for whatever reasons, to who turned us down which we may never know, to who actually gets hired when all is said and done,) do not appear good for us right now, but obviously none of us will know until next year.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
well yeah, we'll see on the field
but all we have is discussion and speculation until then. and this one doesn’t give me warm fuzzies
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
Well he's a great recruiter
and I think it more important at this stage to get as many ‘Joes’ as possible if you can’t have the best ’X’s and O’s’.
I agree 100%....
with a resume like that it really surprises that he is only the OLB coach?? Who knows he may be the sole reason his teams have been dominate and if we do get him than I hope so….but at this point and I do not mean to sound like a hater but it seems like the only “Crimson” we get are the scraps. This guy is surely not the “Splash” we or at least I hoped for but he may be our best bet??
You have been banned from Stampede Blue.
You called a writer a ‘douchebag.’ Sorry, gotta ban you for that comment.
by bullrider73 on Jan 11, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
I'm at the point now where...
I just don’t care who they hire, just get somebody. He’s either going to be really good or he’s going to suck! If it’s the former then great. But if it’s the latter, well, it won’t be anything different than what we’ve had to endure for the last 4+ years. And if it’s the latter then it’s not going to matter anyway as we will be getting a whole new staff next year. Then maybe UT will throw some money around and get a really good coaching staff. I’m sure we’ll know all the answers by the end of October.
by Displaced_Vol_Fan on Jan 11, 2012 8:34 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Beginning of October
We will have our answer by the end of the first weekend in Oct when we will have already played FL and GA!
Make this guy a sound offer
Sounds like he can at least keep our heads above water.
I don't mind this hire at all
He’s been learning from the best for a few years now, so that can’t hurt. I don’t know enough about him (or enough about football to be honest) to know if this is a great hire or not. Like some have already said, we will know next year when they play.
Does anyone know how good a recruiter he is supposed to be? I hope this hire can excite some of the top defensive recruits we have right now.
My other concern is I hope this doesn’t make Lance Thompson mad enough to start looking for another job rowdier next year. That would hurt us real bad IMO. I don’t know for sure how badly Lance has wanted the DC position. Everyone seems to say he wanted it really bad and will be offended not to get it. Has that been confirmed anywhere or is that just speculation?
by PrideofTheSouthlandFan on Jan 11, 2012 9:27 AM EST via mobile reply actions
he's the reigning recruiter of the year
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
and that's exactly what this staff needs...more elite recruiters
having said that…it is critical to make CLT happy and on board through this.
Just hire somebody
I am about tired of all of the backstreet rumors and putting off the hiring of a DC. Someone needs to be named before more recruits back out. We are now weeks away from national signing day and have slipped from 12th to 21st in recruiting since Wilcox announced his departure.
Vol 4 Life
by tennesseevolsman on Jan 11, 2012 9:41 AM EST reply actions
have two major thoughts about this possibility:
1. This is a highly underwhelming hire if we’re planning on him being around for five years. There were plenty of great defensive minds out there (Randy Shannon, Vic Koenning, Brian Vangorder come to mind) and we got someone who has never been a DC at a high level before. May turn out well, but we’re Tennessee. There’s no reason for us to have to take fliers on up and comers. Also, as I mentioned earlier, it worries me that he’s been coaching so long and not gotten a high level DC spot. Does that say something about him?
2. This is a great hire for the “2012 sucks again” scenario. He’s known as an ace recruiter and he’s coming off a national championship, so there’s a good chance big defensive names will look at us before signing day. And if the whole staff gets canned in October, getting great talent in place for the next coach is priority #1.
What baffles me is that Dooley is the one who’s hiring him, and Dooley obviously prefers scenario #1 over #2.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 9:49 AM EST reply actions
"but we’re Tennessee"
I don’t think this phrase means what it used to. We have an inflated sense of self that may be completely justified by our past success but it just isn’t realistic anymore. We hired Derek Dooley because Air Force’s coach turned us down. Because Duke’s coach (whose dream job was here, mind you) turned us down. We lost to Kentucky last year.
I hate it, but it’s true.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
At worst it is still Tenne$$ee.
The product on the field has been bad, but the money and facilities are here. I mean a ton of money. Top 10 type money nationally as a program. This is Hart playing his cards for the next staff which will be his staff. I see Dooley and staff being gone sometime in 2013 or 2014 at which point TN will flex their money muscles and Hart will bring in a big name coach and staff. Coaches didnt jump after the job post kiffin because if the timing and circumstances. The cupboard was bare. I dont think TN will have any trouble under normal circumstances pulling off a dream team staff. I mean just before Dooley was Kiffin and his boys who imo were extremely good.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 11, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
On what basis do you make the claim that we will "flex our money muscles"?
Is it because Dave Hart is here now? When has Tennessee ever done that? Yes, we have an enormous athletic budget, but when have we gone out and used it to attract coaches?
We went cheap with the Mike Hamilton hire, and that has put us in the position we are in right now as an athletics program. We’ve historically gone cheap with hires. Yes, we have nice facilities and a big budget. And those are definitely selling points, as is our membership in the best conference in America.
But this idea that people will climb over each other to come here because “we’re Tennessee” simply isn’t true anymore. I think a lot of the angst of our fans when we take these gambles on hiring coaches comes from their perception that we are above that, that we’re better than that. That’s unfortunately simply not the case anymore.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
because we've had too many failures in a row
and without busting out the cash for a top-notch hire, we run the risk of apathy from major donors and fans. We need to make a big money hire next time to keep the cash flowing. And that’s why I expect to make a big-money hire.
And recall that we didn’t go that cheap on Kiffin—we just tried that ridiculously highly paid staff bit
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
I'm in agreeance with you that the "we're tennessee" mentality is
overused and especially during these rough years has become less and less applicable. This has become a what have you done for me lately society in which recruits dont care about the history of programs anymore as much as their current status as far as record goes, their distance from home, the % of hot girls and the location(whether its a “cool” town or not). It’s getting harder and harder for Notre Dame for this reason and yet the fans dont seem to realize. They still say “we’re Notre Dame”.
At the same time, I think it might be unrealistic to think because TN doesnt have a history of spending the dough to get a coach that they wont ever do it. How much did they spend on Kiffin and staff? I really dont know, but surely it wasnt cheap. They tried using big money to attract a couple DC’s imo. It’s just a tough situation to come into for a coach right now under Dooley. I really believe that the next HC/staff overhaul will show that TN will spend the money. I think the next HC and a new staff could turn this thing around very quickly. I think Kiffin was well on his way in year 1 imo.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 11, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
The flaw with your thinking.....
Is that not only does ND spend a great deal of money on its program it also has consistently gotten top recruiting classes and big name players to its program. The problem is they have vastly underperformed and much of the talent they go after has been west coast and central talent that doesn’t compare with the SEC. Check the recruiting budgets and the money they paid Charlie Weiss and what they are paying their coach now. Yes they are still ND and people still want to go there. Problem is the coaching and player evaluation just isnt as good as it is in the SEC.
So yes We are Tennessee still has value. Does Dooley’s situation play a factor, of course it does but aside from Jimmy Hyams claiming TN offered Chavis a mil to coach here as DC we have nothing that shows TN offered anyone else. And a mil for a DC sure looks like breaking the bank to me! And I am not sad that Chavis is staying where he is. I like Chavis, and I think he did great things at TN when he had his chance but that ship has sailed.
How it works today
The hiring process, as well documented by Clay Travis in “On Rocky Top”, gives everyone plausible deniability now. Intermediaries speak in hypotheticals so that once a hire is made, we can say without lying that the guy we hired is the first guy we offered the job to and nobody turned us down. But we all know that’s not the whole truth.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
I dont think conference affiliation has much to do with ones ability to evaluate talent.
The top tier SEC teams(UF, LSU, Bama) get better players from the jump than ND. My point is that it is getting harder to use tradition to pull kids nowadays. ND does not recruit with the elite teams in the country anymore. If you just look at rankings they can be misleading unless you break down the classes. Since 2007 they have routinely saturated their team with 3* talent which has lead to the lack of depth of talent to compete at the highest level. Notre Dame fields players now that wouldnt have seen the field when they “were notre dame”. They still pull great players but are forced to mix in tons of mediocre talent this day in age. Miami, under Shannon used this same strategy to get high recruiting rankings and now they are suffering dearly.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 11, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
agree
but Notre Dame has lots of problems that Tennessee doesn’t: unusually high academic standards, a cold-weather campus, and a dearth of talent within a 4-5 hour drive
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
True.
TN has more many more advantages as far as recruiting goes in this day and age which is why it can be turned around as fast as any program out there. I just think the “were tennessee” selling point docrok referred to doesnt really resonate with today’s young people. What will resonate is hiring a big name HC/staff, the facilities they already have, and the location(close to home for elite recruits). The situation at Tennessee is very bad, but the length of time it will stay that way is exaggerated quite a bit by some. Theyre one big hire away from making an almost immediate turnaround. Immediate being instant, year 1 results in recruiting and enthusiasm nationally and year 2 on field impact. TN remains a 2-3 year fun and exciting rebuild away from a contender.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 11, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
oh, I'm not talking about it resonating with young people
I’m talking about it resonating with the guys in charge and the coaches they’re trying to hire. We should get the candidate we want because we’re Tennessee and we don’t take no for an answer.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
In that case
Dooley is the problem without question.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 11, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
if that's the case
then get rid of him. hopefully our AD has a pretty good idea of whether or not that’s the case
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
If Dooley is not the answer
On the field he has recruited as well as most any other coach. Since you seem to like to break down the recruiting rankings you will see there is only small differences in the classes TN is bringing in compared to the other higher ranked schools. TN has missed in 2 areas in my opinion and that is RB and DT. And not really missed in DT as Couch appears to be an excellent player, however we need at least 3 or 4 more. But nevertheless TN is still landing these recruits. I think a RB will come in this class with the addition of Jay Graham.
And that is the least and most important thing we needed Dooley to do
So worst case he leaves a roster and program in much better shape then he took over.
Yeah.
Even if we fire him after this season, it’s not like he’s leaving behind a bare cupboard, like the one he walked into.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 11, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I do break down the Recruiting Rankings
Because even LSU and AL mix in alot of 3* players with a handful of 4 and 5* players. Look at LSU and AL rankings for this year and last year and you will see there is not much difference in the star power. I am referring to the intangibles, Size Speed and Athleticism, which is well documented as better in the SEC. We don’t just get size or speed the SEC gets both. And according to these recruiting sites 3* players are considered div 1 athletes and possible NFL talent just need player development to grow into this.
agreed
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
we're not good right now
but we’re no worse than Alabama was 5-6 years ago. Remember how they took a flier on that Dolphins washout? We put together the money and have an AD that people will actually work for, and we won’t have to take fliers on unproven candidates
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
But we've traditionally taken flyers on up and comers
That has been the tradition of this program. Tell me when, other than the all star disaster that the short lived Kiffin regime was, when we’ve hired the best HC or coordinator off the street other than bringing Johnny home.
Fulmer was promoted to OC then to HC
Cutcliff got his big break at UT, first OC job
Chavis got his big break at UT. first DC job
Kiffin was a reach at HC based on record
Monte Kiffin is about the only bonified big time name that we paid big time bucks for as a DC.
Chaney might be lumped into this but other than Purdue he’s never coordinated another D1 program.
The theme of all our successful coaches in that list
(including Johnny) is they were Tennessee people.
For some reason, our program stopped producing bright young coaches somewhere along the way.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
PEYTONMANNINGPEYTONMANNINGPEYTONMANNINGPEYTONMANNINGPEYTONMANNING
He can walk in as a head coach on day one and have it turned around in no time. It has to be true; I heard multiple callers on our beloved local radio say that.
by David Hooper on Jan 11, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Whats with Volnation anyway?
I’m new to Tennessee blog sites, but I must say I’ve been hard pressed to find any decent or dependable info there. Is it just a bunch of fans with no inside info?
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 11, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
#teammom'sbasement
I’ll take out the trash in a minute, mom. Jeez.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 11, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
That explains it then.
I stopped going there almost instantly.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 11, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
with the exception of
Randy Sanders.
Cutcliff is not arguably a UT guy as he’s from Alabama but I guess he became one through his long tenure on UT’s staff.
A major difference between Johnny and Phil was the incredible number of future successful assistants and grad assistants that spent a year or few on Johnny’s staff. The list of these successful college and pro coaches is just amazing. That list that worked for Phil and became successful somewhere else is pretty darn short.
Cut and Chavis
Is that it?
Granted, they were pretty damned good in their heydays.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
...and Fulmer
Other than all of the assistants that worked under Johnny that went on to be successful other places, that’s about it.
Doug Marrone is the only other one I can think of
I really wanted him back as OC after Sanders was fired but we got the Clawfense instead…yay
Good point
I guess the jury is still out on him and Tee. Both appear to have bright futures though.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
No, technically you're right
But I am using a looser definition of being produced by the system, one that includes people like Cutcliffe and also former players. I think both can be considered parts of a “coaching tree.”
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
That often seems to be the case with coaching trees.
That those who spawn off the main trunk of a tree (e.g. Fulmer from Majors) don’t create their own tree, even of those branches are themselves very successful.
Now that I think about it, who did Belichik come from? His assistants haven’t had a lot of luck after leaving him. Did Belichik’s mentor have a huge tree? (I honestly can’t remember who that was.)
And while we’re at it, how have Saban assistants done once they’re on their own?
by David Hooper on Jan 11, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Belichik was from the Parcels tree.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 11, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Yes and I think Belichik is about the only successful one so far off the tree
There’s others that have had their chance, but not really succeeded.
This could be fun.
What was the Walsh tree? I just remember Shanahan, but I’m a bit memory-biased in that.
by David Hooper on Jan 11, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Tim Layden's book "Blood, Sweat, and Chalk"
had a great exploration of coaching trees and the inside of the dust jacket was a diagram of the most notable ones. Very interesting to look at. Great book too.
http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Sweat-Chalk-Ultimate-Football/dp/1603200614
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Oh my that's a long one, I'll start it
Wyche
Holmgren
Reid
Siefert
Mariucci
Erickson
Walsh tree:
San Francisco (1979-96): Perhaps the greatest coaching tree in NFL history sprouted in San Francisco under Bill Walsh in 1979 and continued with his successor, George Seifert, through 1996. Including Seifert, the 49ers employed 10 future head coaches in that span, including some of the game’s best over the last two decades. They are Dennis Green (Minnesota, Arizona), Bruce Coslet (Jets, Cincinnati), Pete Carroll (Jets, New England), Jeff Fisher (Tennessee), Holmgren (Green Bay, Seattle), Gary Kubiak (Houston), Rhodes (Philadelphia, Green Bay), Seifert (San Francisco, Carolina), Mike Shanahan (Oakland, Denver) and Sam Wyche (Cincinnati, Tampa Bay). During that stretch, the 49ers won five Super Bowls in 14 years and also are the only NFL team to win 10 or more games in 16 consecutive seasons (1983-98).
Source: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2006-03-15-coaching-trees_x.htm
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
That's interesting.
But not many people consider a guy like Jeff Fisher to be from the Walsh Tree. He is very well known as a member of the Buddy Ryan tree.
He came up through the defensive coaching ranks under Buddy Ryan, and even ran the 46 defense as his base defense for a while with the Houston/Tennessee Oilers.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 11, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
This page agrees on Fisher
And also seems to be a pretty good source for some others:
http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2008/02/22/the_nfl_coaching_tree_2008_pt_1.php
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Schwartz is going to be a good Head Coach, I think.
Gregg Williams got a shot as a head coach that wasn’t too successful, but he’s still a great DC.
Mike Munchak has things headed in the right direction. The Fisher tree is expanding.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 11, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
haha
ya Saban has had a horrible career after leaving Belichik, and theres that Penn State job that just got filled by one of his….and as far as how Saban’s assistants have done?? Will Muschamp & Jimbo Fisher have had as much success as u can expect from someone in a new position….believe me, FSU and Fl will be back…
by sprizzle2182 on Jan 11, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Ah forgot about that
Did he coach long enough under Belichik to really be from the tree? That’s a question for some of the names associated with Walsh as well.
But assuming he’s from the Belichik tree than yes very successful branch.
Muschamp and Fisher
I am sorry but Muschamp did not exactly walk into a mess that needed alot repair. FL was coming off the number 1 recruiting class in the country Meyer’s last year recruiting at FL and top 10 classes every year. So not sure how he could not be expected to finish better than 7-6 one game better than Dooley’s 2 years here in which he walked into a program in need of ALOT of recruiting. Additionally Fisher has been at FL for awhile as the Coach in waiting so he has his players there and that team greatly under achieved so the jury is still out on Saban’s assistants. That includes Dooley.
"Greatly underachieved" is an overexaggerating Fisher's failure.
10 wins his first year with a completely new staff, new personnel and a defense full of underclassmen learning a new system(base man to base zone). That was while winning the state championship in blowout fashion and beating the SEC east champs in a bowl.
The recruiting class went from 38th to 6th in the first week he took over as HC. After his first season he landed the #1 class and followed with a disappointing 9-4 season with a list of injuries even worse than TN’s going into 2 of those losses(QB, 4 of the top 5 WR, multiple OL, CB and elite returner)but still won the state and the bowl(beat ND with as many as 7 true freshman on the field on offense).
Now he goes into his 3rd year with another top 3 class and a top 10 defense that returns 9. He did fall short regardless of the injuries this year especially vs UVA but has done a very solid job thusfar imo. 2012 has always been the target year for FSU fans even before 2011 started.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 11, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Well As FSU is an ACC Team
And not an SEC team I have not followed them as closely as you apparently have, which leads me to believe you to be a FSU or FL fan, however I know that they came into the season around #4 and after the loss to OK seemed to have trouble. I do not claim to have personal knowledge of their team however this year I do recall ESPN claiming they returned a far more experience Defense. Again just what I remember from the programs on ESPN. As for 2012 Good luck in the ACC and hope they meet the SEC Champ in the BCS game. However all year I heard how FSU underachieved and the only injury that was brought up was that of the QB
I'm an FSU fan
and everything I said was accurate. They were overhyped as a possible title contender this year by the national media. They lost most of the before mentioned players in the OU game(Haulstead, Shaw, Greene, Reed at WR, EJ at QB, Greg Reid at CB, and Datko/Spurlock/Stork on the OL. They returned a defense full of underclassmen in year 2 of a system and played at an elite level. They were forced to start 4 true freshman on the OL including a 17 yr old with 11 starts combined(3 in their 1st start)vs ND. It was truly horrendous injury luck this year and still pulled out 9 wins. I follow Tennessee too because I live in johnson city and my in-laws are huge UT fans/boosters.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 11, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'd hope to meet the SEC champs.
Heck, I hope to join the SEC. The ACC sucks outside VT, Clemson, FSU, and Miami(who is down). We’ve had relatively good luck vs SEC going 3-0 in the last 2 years vs SEC and even getting a W a few years ago vs Bama in Saban’s first year. No doubt Bama and LSU wouldve handled us this year even if we were healthy.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 11, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
In aggregate.
There have been so many hired from under Belichik that some will have found success. But Saban’s case is as much Saban as Belichik. And that’s kinda my underlying point.
by David Hooper on Jan 11, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Trees
Coaching trees to me simply are a place for a coach to learn. Just like any other job. A great journalist that teaches another journalist that goes on to become successful says that the teacher was an excellent teacher but disregards the student must be a great student. The same great journalist could teach yet another student that isnt a great student and then when that student fails its a reflection on the teacher again. And while yes the teacher bears some responsibility the student bears more responsibility in his own maturation. So in saying that being from the Walsh tree, the Belichick tree, and further the Saban tree simply exposes the student, (the new coaches) to the teacher. It then becomes the responsibility of the student to learn and find a way to implement the principles into his own successful process. And this is all just another way of saying they were exposed to some of the best coaches out there its on them whether they can find a way to be successful.
Saban coached under Belichik
If memory serves me correct I think Saban did a stint under Bill Belichik I think at Cleveland
You need some tenure to produce bright, young coaches.
Fulmer produced his share, but we got fed up with Fulmer, blew the whole thing up, and started over.
Dooley hasn’t had time to produce any “up and coming” assistants yet, and the ones that are up and coming are leaving for sub-lateral jobs…
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 11, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Really? name some
I don’t consider a 16 year tenure as getting fed up and blowing up without giving him a chance. Sorry Fulmer had more chances than he earned.
I'll help
Bright young coaches that worked for Fulmer and went on to success:
Doug Marrone
Chavis at LSU
Can’t really think of anyone else.
I'm not saying Fulmer didn't get a fair chance.
But everyone was fed up. And we did blow the whole thing up.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 11, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
My point was
16 years is sufficient tenure to produce a legacy of successful assistants. Johnny’s list is very long after 16 years.
I think it is a not so positive reflection on Fulmer’s management ability.
That's fine.
I didn’t intend to comment on Fulmer’s worth. I thought your question was “why aren’t we producing bright young coaches right now?” and the answer is, because Dooley has only been here for two years. You need to be a tenured, successful head coach to form a “tree.”
Even after Fulmer was fired, we almost hired a “Tennessee guy,” Cutcliffe, to fill his spot, but that didn’t work out, so we blew it all up and started over for the first time in a very long time.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 11, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Oh...classic example of talking past each other
I was refering to Fulmer versus Johnny legacy legacy, not to Dooley’s. I agree Dooley is a work in progress.
Nobody expects Dooley to have produced anyone yet
When we’re discussing the vacuum of coaching talent, we’re talking about Majors’ assistants who seemingly all went on to bigger and better things versus Fulmer’s assistants, of which we can pretty much name only a few.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Please excuse my lack of reading comprehension.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 11, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
more for the list
Randy Sanders…we know that story and how it turned out
Dave Clausen was a reach in that he’d never coordinated at the D1 level and not sure he ever worked on a D1 level staff
We let one of the best o-line coaches in the country go in Dave Barry and didn’t retain talented Doug Marrone and replaced them with wash outs and never was’.
So what your really suggesting by ’we’re Tennessee’ is to start a new tradition…after Dooley’s tenure is over.
All the names on your list might not have been big money hires,
but when I look at them they were all almost perfect at the time of hiring. Fulmer was a great HC hire. Cutcliffe was a great OC hire. Chavis was a great DC hire and Kiffin as it turned out was very good in year 1 imo. Fulmer ran his course but also won tons of games and brought a title to UT. Cutcliffe is a top tier QB coach and offensive mind. Chavis is also a very good DC. I would say the talent evaluation as far as coaching hires goes has been top notch before Dooley. I dont think in the past UT had to hire off the street to find the best guy as time eventually proved the best guys just happened to be in house.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 11, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
True, but my response was to the suggestion that 'we're Tennessee' and don't settle for up and comers
That legacy broke down with the Sanders promotion and most of Fulmer’s hiring from 2000 on were questionable.
I said "take a flier though"
which has the sort of connotation that eliminated in my mind the guys that everybody wants. Like, if we had been able to grab a guy like Chris Petersen at HC, he would’ve been an up and comer, but I wouldn’t consider it taking a flier.
Sunseri isn’t a sought-after DC at all
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with this.
Hiring up and comers isnt necessarily settling at all. Hiring unknowns is.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 11, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not completely opposed to this.
There are some red flags, the big one being that he hasn’t been a DC of any significance yet.
I like that he’s an excellent recruiter. I like that his resume is filled with success. There’s also his “assistant head coach” title. What does that mean? What responsibility does it entail? It says to me that he’s probably heavily involved in the defensive gameplanning as opposed to being JUST a position coach, but that’s just my perception.
So, the big question now really is just playcalling, assuming he has had his hand in the gameplanning mix. If he hasn’t been much of a gameplanner, that’s another big leap he’ll have to make.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 11, 2012 11:25 AM EST reply actions
We've been very pleased with Coach Sal...
…and will be sad to see him go, but, truth be told, we’ll miss him more for his recruiting abilities than anything else. He’s coached up our LBs to do their jobs very well, but so far as defensive gameplanning….nada. Not even close. That’s Saban and Smart. He’s not what you would call a “home run” hire, but he’s solid. You could do worse.
He was a HC at a Div III school for a year or two, and was interim HC at Pitt for 1 game back about 20 yrs ago. Never been a DC at any level above Div I-AA….overwhelmingly, his career has consisted of coaching LBs and the DL. And as far as I’m aware, he’s a dyed-in-the-wool 3-4 guy….don’t know anything about y’all’s defensive schemes or personnel, so I don’t know if that fits or not. So far as the “assistant HC” title goes, we have 3 of those…Sunseri, Jeff Stoudtland (our OL coach) and Burt Burns (our RBs coach), so I don’t know if that’s a superfluous title or if it really carries some weight.
At any rate, Roll Tide Roll, and best of luck to Coach Sal, no matter where he goes.
*fartnoise*
I’d rather take Sal “Unknown Quantity” Sunseri than Ron “We Know He Sucks” Zook, or any of a dozen Zook clones.
this is my argument on Sunseri vs Steele
but I’m actually not as convinced that Zook sucks. people point to the failure at Florida, but he managed to get an NFL DC job after that, so someone must’ve seen something
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Jim Haslett brought him up
after a single year as a DB coach for a Kansas City team where they turned in a below average pass defense. Before this it had been years since he’d even been a defensive position coach.
I think his promotion had more to do with the same things that led Jim Haslett to turn in progressively worse teams as HC of the Saints.
and trust me...
I watched his Florida defenses. They were right up there with Hal Mumme’s Kentucky defenses… luckily the SEC was TERRIBLE at the time. Seriously, Ray Goff’s Georgia teams were the 4th best team after UT/Bama/UF by ten miles.
his defenses at Illinois weren't too bad
given up 30+ four times in the last two years. While coaching Illinois. Offense was the problem this year, at least. Scored 20 or fewer in seven straight games. Never lost a game in which he scored at least 20
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
might've been the DC though
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
can't entirely tell...
but looking through the archives, Vic Koennig did consistently turn in top 20 defenses at Clemson. Appears he got run off with Tommy Bowden after the 2008 season.
I would've loved to get Vic Koenning
if UNC hadn’t grabbed him first
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
/twitch
As much as I love Chaney for what he did at Wyoming, I have the opposite feelings for that guy for what he did at Wyoming. Which has nothing to do with him as a DC.
by David Hooper on Jan 11, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, understandable
but he sure seems like a top-notch DC
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Just don't let him get anywhere within 50 yards of the offensive playbook.
Hey, if the defensive end stays home, then every single offensive play fails. Let’s run them all season long!
by David Hooper on Jan 11, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
My memory apparently isn't perfect...
Auburn and Mississippi State had their moments… but man, his Florida teams were giving up 20+ ppg games despite having 50% of their games against really bad teams
take 92 as an example
(4-7)Kentucky = 19 points
(9-3)#14 Tennessee = 31
(7-5)#24 Mississippi State = 30
(2-9)LSU = 21
(5-5-1)Auburn = 9
(5-6)Louisville = 17
(10-2)#7 Georgia = 24
(7-4)USM = 20
(5-6)South Carolina = 9
(4-7)Vandy = 21
(11-1)FSU = 45
(13-0)Bama = 28
(9-3-1)NCSU = 12
Considering how good Spurrier’s offenses were, folks in Gainesville were screaming for his head after that season but Spur gave him one more season… it didn’t save his job, but he was willing to take a demotion.
not that the ppg was awful
but UF fans saw the writing on the wall, that they’d never compete with UT, Bama, and FSU consistently if they were giving up 30+ points every time they ran into a good offense.
and on a heartwarming sidenote...
just about every conversation we have, as UT fans, about anything before 2008 just serves to remind me of how far we’ve fallen.
Seeing rumblings on Twitter and elsewhere
That Sunseri is all but hired.
Also that Hiestand will be gone to ND and that Biasacca (or whatever the San Diego guy’s name is) will be hired as well.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
He would have been a good candidate
But would have taken a beating in the blovusphere because he came from Navy…Navy??? we’re TENNESSEE
After our previous success in wooing service academy coaches
I’d say it would be a step up.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
also Navy hasn't really had good defenses lately
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Austin Ward and Gribble seemingly confirm on Hiestand:
Andrew Gribble @Andrew_Gribble 2m
RT @Vols_Beat: According to source, Vols offensive line coach Harry Hiestand appears to be close to a deal for same position at Notre Dame.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
#TeamRunBlocking
Hiestand should get along well with Kelly.
by David Hooper on Jan 11, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
I work with a Notre Dame alum who was asking me about him.
He …wasn’t happy.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 11, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Come on down Mitch Browning
An upgrade in my opinion if that were to happen
seconded
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW (and for some reason)
Gribble just tweeted that there is currently a plane in the air from Tuscaloosa to Knoxville:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N100TW
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Oooh, I haven't seen this version before.

My personal favorite is the person on the stream complaining this is boring.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 11, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
The guy aliased as "Doorwatch2009"?
Nice trolling, that.
by David Hooper on Jan 11, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
my favorite...
is the Kentucky fan, watching a live stream of a door telling others to GROW UP!
by Caban on Jan 11, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
truth
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
How did I miss someone invoking FlightAware?
The offseason, ladies and gentlemen!
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 11, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
and I reiterate
That UT had the Athletic Department’s plane blocked from FlightAware. Takes so much of the fun away.
We need to keep a Knoxville air traffic controller on retainer here.
Bisacca at least would be a homerun
but I prefer a DC homerun to a ST coordinator homerun
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
I like it.
The rumors are Buddy Green may come to coach safeties. Sunseri is a tenacious recruiter and could bring the Bama blueprint for stopping SEC offenses.
Love it.
Who cares about getting guys from Bama? They’re winning. If they’re leaving there for UT, it’s not like some big conspiracy. It’s a business.
Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.
Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!
I haven't really read all the comments...
but are there seriously folks worried about a Crimson Manchurian Candidate?
That was Hart
This is all about consolidating the victory.
I am,
not publicly, however (up until now, I reckon). I just grew up with hatred for only one thing, and that was the University of Alabama. Sorry. And yes, I know Cut was from there, and rah rah rah, and yes, I will support whomever we bring from there…I’m just saying. It’s just weird.
Welcome to the brave new world.
We apparently ran out of viable guys with Tennessee connections and so are doing the next best thing…raiding our successful and fierce competitor.
by phil g on Jan 11, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We would get along perfectly, GhostDance
It’s hard to stomach, but once they jump over, they are Vols.
Holdin' it down on enemy grounds.
Anti-Snail on offense; Give me a slobberknocker, or give me death!
by Brad Shepard on Jan 11, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I agree...
Hate Alabama every day(and twice on Saturday).
But anyone who was able to get far enough to get a major coaching job is going to be enough of a businessman to worry about the quality of their work and turn off the part of their brain that demands the destruction of all their rivals.
Besides, how fun would it be to actually take a rivals’ folk hero and make them a loyal Vol?
this
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
This is the rumor I heard from Volquest
If this is true I like it! Navy had a pretty fair Defense and their safety led the nation in fumble recoveries. Could be luck or could be good coaching
"Who cares about getting guys from Bama?"
Things you say in a foxhole
by Will Shelton on Jan 11, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
tenacious recruiter, good
lack of DC experience, not so good. jury is definitely still out on Sunseri, although getting talent is always a good thing
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
The jury is still out?
On the defensive coordinator we have not yet officially hired who has never defensive coordinated at this level before? You don’t say.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
well yeah
but it was in response to “will bring the Bama blueprint for stopping SEC offenses. Love it”
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
This is not good
I’ve been a Dooley supporter since day 1, and am always a “cup half full” kind of guy, but I don’t see how this is anything but a below average hire.
So we need to fill a DC position and we go out and get someone with no major DC experience? Steele would have been a much better choice.
He’s a great recruiter? It’s easy to recruit to Bama when your first year there you win a National Championship.
This better be a result of Dooley’s uncertain future scaring away real quality candidates rather than Hart’s hiring philosophy. Because if this is Hart’s doing, and UT is going to continue to look for the diamond in the rough, up-and-comer hire then it’s going to be hard to be excited about the future. Other teams are paying for success and we’re trying to save some pennies.
by The Life & Opinions of Boone, Gentleman on Jan 11, 2012 1:53 PM EST reply actions
Hart
Paying 4 mil a year for Saban does not give me the opinion that he is pinch and save kind of guy, and according to the Bama fans when he was hired that he was instrumental in bringing in Saban. Don’t know this personally only what was said.
Hard to tell
Hart joined Alabama 1.5 years after Saban was hired. Maybe he helped behind the scenes, but it wasn’t his decision to make as far as the money was concerned. Who knows? Maybe Hart is willing to pay the big $$ but no one big wanted to come to UT because Dooley is on the hot seat.
Another issue I have is that most TN fans are just happy to have someone at DC. The search is frustrating but we need to hire the right guy rather than the fast guy. Apathy has set it for too many. We should demand better.
by The Life & Opinions of Boone, Gentleman on Jan 11, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Also not all Hart's call
Big deals still have to be approved by the big money behind the program.
Mal Moore...
…was the rainmaker and the closer on bringing Saban to Bama.
Can we just hire a defensive coordinator, already?
I’m sick of waiting. I’m on campus right now, can I do it? I’d only require a small raise over my current salary, and I consider myself a pretty good recruiter.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 11, 2012 2:05 PM EST reply actions
I know this has likely been kicked around a ton,
but is Coach Dooley not giving Thompson a shot at DC? Does he not want it? Will be get pissed about not being offered?
Anybody else a touch concerned that he may want to install a 3-4?
Generally speaking, I like the hire, and Bama’s defense is pretty dang multiple so I’d imagine he’d be comfortable using what we’ve got until we can build up a strong LB and DL corp, but still- switching over from the 4-2-5 thing Wilcox seemed to want to move into seems like it may be a big jump for players.
I don't know
But Curt Maggitt was born to play the weakside OLB position in a pro-style 3-4. But I’m like you, I worry about depth…not just quality depth, but depth. <—Period
I could see him planning for a move to the 3-4...
but sticking with the 4-2-5 or a 4-3 for now.
He coached under Everett Withers for a few years at Louisville, and he runs a 4-3… so he has some experience in it.
At this point, everybody who wants to be a DC should be fully familiar with running a 3-4 and a 4-3.
Both are common enough that there’s no excuse not to know them – and no excuse to hire a guy who doesn’t. And if Dooley is going to hire a guy who’s going to take the Clawson multi-year route on defense, then he shouldn’t be surprised if Clawson-like consequences occur.
by David Hooper on Jan 11, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, some 4-3 sets...
but it’s not as much about Sunseri “knowing” both systems…sure he does. It’s a question of the UT personnel, and whether they better fit a 4-3 alignment (with those DL and LB responsibilities) or a 3-4 (with different things asked of the DL and LBs, different sizes and speeds needed, etc.) That’s not to say that you can’t mix it up SOMEWHAT, and it shouldn’t be a dealbreaker, because teams make the switch, but that first year can be pretty rough if your personnel don’t suit your base formation. Look at Grantham at Georgia…when they switched, it made for some problems, but things worked out pretty well this year. That’s because they defensive players they now have on the roster were (by and large) recruited to fit the 3-4.
If he is that dumb...
We won’t be worrying about it in a year’s time anyways, because it would clearly fail and we’d have already hired a new coaching staff.
I’m willing to let these guys do whatever they want to do just because it will either work next season, or we’ll only have to suffer through a single season of stupid.
Depends on how soon Santos can play.
If he can step in and play inside this year, we have 4 good linebackers.
But yeah, then depth becomes the issue.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 11, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
I love how already a portion of the fanbase has decided
That if this is a good hire, Hart did it. If it’s a bad hire, Dooley did it. Sigh. It’s going to be a long 8 months.
blasphemer
I can only hope these same fans still adore Hart in 5 years, that will be the most obvious sign things have worked out.
please please please
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
I fear many who have prematurely made up their minds on Dooley
will also lack the maturity to admit they were wrong. So not only does Dooley have to win enough games to keep his job in 2012, he also has to win enough games in 2012 to survive a potential down year without Bray, Rogers, and Hunter in 2013. It’s a bigger conversation for a different day, perhaps, but 8-4 or 9-3 might save him in 2012, but probably wouldn’t save him from 7-5 in 2013. He needs to win big for now and for later.
by Will Shelton on Jan 11, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
If we were to go 9-3ish next year...
then honestly, going 7-5 with a Brayless team in 2012 would be a pretty good achievement.
Honestly, Majors wouldn’t have ever made it to 1985 in this day and age… we’d probably be on our 10th head coach since Battle if the internet had existed back then.
by Caban on Jan 11, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know that this is purely an "age of the internet" phenomenon
Certainly there is less patience in general these days and I am sure it plays some role, but I think more of it has to do with Johnny having some things going for him that Dooley obviously doesn’t. He was already a Tennessee football legend before he ever coached a game. Plus he had won a national championship the year before he got here.
If Dooley had been a star player here and then he had gone on to win a national championship before coming here, I think you’d see quite a bit more patience from the fans. The major complaint most seem to have about him is that he hasn’t proven that he can do the job at this level (or at any level). That argument goes away entirely if Dooley had won a BCS championship in 2009.
Looking at it another way, if Peyton Manning were to retire, decide that he does want to go into coaching, go to a school in a BCS conference and win a national championship, then get offered and accept the job here, I think fans would be willing to put up with a few 5-win seasons before they started calling for his head. Dooley doesn’t have that luxury, nor does he deserve it at this point.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Jan 11, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Perhaps age of the internet is a bit of an exaggeration...
but the age of ESPN may be more accurate. It’s the era of 24/7 coverage.
Back in the mid/late 1970s you might have 3 or 4 articles a week during the offseason about the football program. By the early 90s you’d have one or two dedicated beat writers working full time on just the football program year round.
But what I am saying is that's not the reason Vol fans aren't as patient with Dooley
Or at least not the main reason. Vol fans are accustomed to being one of the best teams in the country. Most of us have grown up with UT having a great football coach. Hiring an unproven guy is alien to us. Even Kiffin was met with skepticism at first, but fans warmed to him for a number of reasons, chief of which (I believe, at least,) was that he had us headed in the right direction. (It also didn’t hurt that he had a lot of proven guys on his staff, so evn if he didn’t have that experience he at least had it available as a resource.) Vol fans right now don’t know if that is the case with Dooley and we don’t have his past success somewhere else to comfort us.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Don't disagree with any of this
Though the media environment is certainly radically different than it was even 6 or 7 years ago, and I think is an important part of the present impatience/perpetualfreakout in Voldom.
and this is why I'm souring on him a bit in the offseason
he did have some proven guys on his staff. not Kiffin’s staff, but he had some huge names (Charlie Baggett comes to mind), proven produces (Jim Chaney), rising stars (Justin Wilcox, Peter Sirmon). Now the guys who were giving us results are gone (and we haven’t hired proven replacements) and the guys who are still here are coming off mediocre years.
A month ago, there was mostly a staff to believe in. Probably needed a change or two on the offensive side, but the defensive guys were taking us places.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
While I am as impatient as you............
I think Dooley will make the right hires and the only person on the staff that I have questioned up until this point has been Hiestand whether his fault or not the offensive line woes are a poor reflection on him. And sadly enough when the hire was made I felt like aside from Baggett it was the most proven hire, so I will give him a pass on that one. Additionally the apparent report on volquest is Hiestand was asked to look for another job and that is why the ND offer has apparently came up. I want to believe that Dooley is going to make the right hires again!
while the rumor was Shannon, I was onboard
when it changed to Steele/Sunseri/whatever, I wasn’t as convinced
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 12, 2012 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
Again, Mike Shula
10-2 in 2005, 6-6 regular season in 2006, fired.
by Will Shelton on Jan 11, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
and rightfully so
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
6-6 should never be good enough with a 12 game schedule and 4 cupcakes on the schedule. Far as I’m concerned with KY and Vandy on the schedule anything less than 4-4 in the SEC from here on out should be a fireable offense! I’m sorry but I don’t see TN as a mediocre team!
From 2012 and as long as Dooley is here
mediocrity will be totally on him. You have to give him a pass for the past two years but now he’s on the clock.
if we have another tumultuous offseason after an 8-4 or 9-3 2012
I’d argue that 7-5 shouldn’t save him in 2013. If we have a lot of grade/law issues and/or a lot of coaches jumping off, then it changes the game a bit. It’s changing my attitude towards 2012 to say the least
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Changes
Changes occur all the time in a program, especially a successful one and this should not be an excuse for 7-5. Coaches will always re-hire coaches with similar philosophies unless there has been a trainwreck of a season and Dooley isn’t going to have that luxury until after he has had several successful seasons. And with this in mind there should not be any drastic changes in the program and if a coordinator or position coach leaves it will be just like the other teams; plug in the next guy and march on.
I think we agree
but I’m saying that if we do have a lot of turmoil a few years into a coach’s tenure, my on-field standards are raised. Early in a coach’s tenure, turmoil is to be expected and sometimes excuses poor performance. Later in a coach’s career, turmoil is a red flag and needs to be overcome with exemplary on the field performance.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
My problem with this
My problem with this is that will be his fourth full year recruiting and there will be no depth excuses to use and frankly 7-5 should not cut it at Tennessee. A down year for LSU and AL and FL until this year was 8-4 / 9-3. At that point it should be simply reloading. And frankly with Bray’s injury the only way he is picked to go first round and he leaves early is if he has a breakout year against the top competition in league. And I am not saying that doesnt happen. Matter of fact I think it will. But I also think by 2013 Worley will have mature enough that it should be a smooth enough transition to not have a 7-5 season. I am not an insane fan but 7-5 has never been good enough at TN, it was not for Fulmer and it certainly won’t be for Dooley.
I agree, there's no excuse for a big drop off in 2013
Regardless what happens to Hunter, Bray and Rodgers. A slight dip from 2012 might be understandable but a big drop off should not be tolerated and should not happen.
Since I'm sick as a dog...
I’m doing what I usually do to relieve boredom when I feel too bad to even play a video game… working on a spreadsheet!
Would anyone be interested in the series records and point differentials for USA soccer all time?
Sure, but let's talk about it on Brad's thread.
;-)
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 11, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
GOOD IDEA
Actually, doing this work I’m finding some interesting stuff.
The USA was actually quite good around the turn of the 19th/20th century, and only started turning bad after WW2… but really hit rock bottom in the early 1980s after a slow decline during the NASL era. What could the NASL have done to kill off any remaining interest in US soccer? Did they just mismanage it horribly?
Things got better in a hurry though starting ~1988… and obviously we know the story after that. It’s just astounding how much better we’ve gotten. Take El Salvador for example. We couldn’t even consistently keep it close against them prior to 1985, but we’re undefeated against them since then with a goal differential of close to 4-0.
Don’t even get me started on how badly Canada used to massacre us.
Craziest results I've seen...
The USA and Haiti faced off in a playoff during the WC 1978 qualifiers in Port au-Prince…
and proceeded to play to 4 scoreless draws in a row. They were unable to get a result after playing a full 90 every other day for over a week. I can’t find out what happened after that, but rather than ever getting a result they simply quit playing.
and on the sorta cool side...
The USA drew Jamaica, Guatemala, and Antigua & Barbuda into their WC 2014 qualification group. This will be the first time we’ve ever played Antigua & Barbuda.
Just for reference, their entire country has a population of 84,000… This is(generously) equivalent to the USA playing a starting 11 selected from the stands of the Tennessee/Wyoming football game from 2008.
and yet...
because it’s soccer, we could very easily end up in a 2-1 type game against them on the road. And we would have the equivalent of a soccer meltdown if we lost that somehow, despite it not being that crazy of a result.
That should be a relatively easy in.
Jamaica is the toughest match there (I think), but even so a Bradley-led team was able to handle them.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 11, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
the semifinal round should almost always be relatively easy
and it’s probably tougher than last time around (our group was Cuba, T&T, and Guatemala), but still shouldn’t be bad at all
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 11, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
eh...
Trinidad & Tobago >>>> Antigua & Barbuda
Jamaica is better than Cuba, but the only way I see the group being tougher is in the possibility that nobody is likely to get upset by A&B so there would be less room for slipups. I think the field as a whole is easier this time.
you're doing it wrong
Jamaica > Trinidad and Tobago
I have no idea how Antigua & Barbuda compares to Cuba, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t matter
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 12, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
They are about the same...
Cuba has been there before though, so they were a bit more likely to get a pelt in Havana than A&B is to sneak out a home result in wherever they play at(North Sound, A&B).
although apparently A&B...
just got a home win over Haiti, and a draw over Guadeloupe… neither of which are truly bad teams.
Teams that shouldn’t be able to keep up with any NA Zone team? Yes. Terrible teams? No.
although as far as quality of semi-final group
you can commonly just throw the last team out, unless you’re convinced that they’re actually a threat. Two advance, so the ones we’re really worried about is any team that has a legit shot of finishing top two. I’m actually fine with a stronger 4th place team (as long as they’re “snag a home result” strong and not “threaten to advance” strong), because they’re more likely to upset Jamaica or Guatemala than they are to upset the US
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 12, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
The NASL was a good and horrible idea.
Good: international stars playing in the US!
Bad: all the developmental eggs. When the thing went belly-up, that basically killed development for a while. MLS has helped a lot with development at the professional level, but I’d argue they’re almost too careful with international-quality US players.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 11, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions

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