Is Tennessee's Improvement Too Late for this Season?
by Joel Hollingsworth on Jan 17, 2012 10:01 AM EST
in Tennessee Volunteer Basketball
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Print- We've discovered defense. Is it too late? Prior to league play, the Vols were letting opponents score 84.7 points per game. Since the SEC schedule kicked in? 61 PPG. 40.6% from the field and 32.6% from the arc. This is defense. This is what Coach Cuonzo wants. This is what Coach Cuonzo will have. And this is why Coach Cuonzo thinks that, right now, Tennessee is one of the 65 to 68 best teams in the nation and therefore NCAA worthy. Martin knows, of course, that we spent much of the early season digging an Austin-Peay-shaped hole, and whether it's too deep and there's too few grains of sand in the hourglass, we don't know. But we do know that the team has discovered defense, and the team is now better than its season resume suggests.
- No more gifts. Now that the defensive identity has taken hold, the focus turns to turnovers, which have directly led to some of those warts on the CV.
- Make it right. Cuonzo not happy with tint of blue in Thompson-Boling lower bowl. Cuonzo say what's done is done, but what has not yet been done remains to do. Plain English: he wants you to return the favor in Lexington.
- Regarding that Jarnell guy. The staff and the team seem to be working hard to make sure that the sudden introduction of a bona fide star into the rotation doesn't result in the rubble that chemistry gone bad sometimes produces. Kenny Hall is doing his part, giving Stokes the nickname "Big Future." Kenny, love ya man, but that's no Honey Badger. I throw it open to you, RTTers, to come up with something better.
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Very true
Let’s go with The Big Presence (Present…get it….hello? anyone?)
Good one...
I was thinking “Big Present” but that made me think this way:
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Follow @DawnBake
Somehow...
I don’t see the Kentucky boosters or companies or whoever owns the lower bowl seats at Rupp selling them to the Big Orange.
Say what you will about them (and I could say plenty), they support their program. I just don’t like them paying for our money seats and supporting ours.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Follow @DawnBake
Don't lose to Austin Peay, Charleston, and Oakland
and the fans will be more likely to “support the program.”
by VolfanatETSU on Jan 17, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Fair points on both sides
I do not blame Coach Martin for being frustrated about how much blue he saw on Saturday. That being said, this is not a new phenomenon. And surely Coach Martin knows better than to compare the current state of our program (including that we play in a 21,000+-seat arena and were facing the top-ranked team in the country) with his Purdue squads in their heyday, playing in a much smaller venue.
I don’t like the idea of our donors selling their tickets to Kentucky fans, but I suspect a lot of them were not sold directly to those fans, but rather to someone else (like a scalper) who then sold them on the street to Kentucky fans.
But the fact remains, if Coach Martin can put a winning product on the floor – which he appears to be on his way to doing – then he will see less of our opponents’ colors in the stands at home. (That being said, even in the Pearl years there was still quite a bit of blue upstairs at TBA. Much less than during the Buzz era, but you can’t stop those people from coming. They’re quite insane and seem willing to pay outrageous prices to see their ’Cats.)
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Yeah...
the ones upstairs don’t bother me. The ones downstairs do.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Follow @DawnBake
So low-money donors selling their tickets to Kentucky fans is OK with you?
It’s just wealthier people doing it that bothers you?
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Jan 17, 2012 4:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
the ones upstairs aren't donors, are they?
or at least aren’t majority donors. those are the tickets you just go buy from the box office
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 17, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Like football, depends on how long you've had your seats
by Will Shelton on Jan 17, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
We were grandfathered in for football...
but ended up having to donate for basketball because we hadn’t held basketball tickets before.
So yeah, its all about the actual tickets.
how much of the upper bowl is season tickets?
I guess I was just under the impression that a significant portion of it was just single game stuff—enough to make it blue even if small donors aren’t selling their tickets to Kentucky fans
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 17, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Other than the sections right at mid-court
I think a good upper bowl estimate is that the first 10-15 rows are season tickets
by Will Shelton on Jan 17, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
that many?
then I’ve bought a lot of unsold season tickets as individuals
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 17, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
I could be wrong
I know the ticket office, especially early in the Pearl era, worked to get folks who were in the 300s down closer, and I know they’re willing to cut you a deal this season.
by Will Shelton on Jan 17, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
hmm
well I bought discounted Citadel tickets and I ended up right in front of a railing with half the court obstructed. I guess I’m bad at finding the deals.
Florida I was probably 15 rows up in the 300s, and I think about 10 rows up for Georgia
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 17, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
I guess it depends..
on your definition of “fan”. I tend to think a fan supports the program even in the bad times, and especially in transitional times like our basketball program is going through now.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Follow @DawnBake
I take it you've been to all the home games this year so far?
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Jan 17, 2012 4:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
uh huh...
That’s not remotely what he said.
I support the team, even when bad, but most of us can’t exactly drive up there for every single game.
I do still watch every game I can, and used to listen to the non-televised games even when Wade Houston, Kevin O’Neill, and Michael Jordan’s roommate coached.
In a round about way it is...
Calling someone out and saying they are not a fan, when they donate money to the school and pay for the tickets is hilarious IMO. If anything they are proving their fanhood more than any of the rest of us are.
by VolfanatETSU on Jan 17, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
It absolutely is
but it’s sabotaged if you sell your home tickets outright to UK fans.
by Will Shelton on Jan 17, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure...
if the grandfathered TBA building donators have to renew or not.
I will say that sitting on the west side 50 yard line is a surreal experience… it feels more like a church luncheon than a football game. A LOT of the big donors are more there to be see their friends and be seen.
I took over my parents' seats in the 300s, which they've had since the arena was built
and I just pay the cost of the tickets, no extra donation. But I’m sure if I wanted to buy the seats next to me, they’d want a small additional donation.
by Will Shelton on Jan 17, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Donating and ticketbuying was what I meant by:
“They prove their fanhood more than any of the rest of us”
by VolfanatETSU on Jan 17, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
Nope, sure haven't.
But it’s not because they lost to Austin Peay, Oakland, and Charleston.
What’s your problem?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Follow @DawnBake
I've got no problem
But I’m not the one calling out others on their “true fanhood.” So how many games have you made it to?
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Jan 18, 2012 6:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm pretty sure...
I didn’t say anything about “true fanhood”, so how about a better answer?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Follow @DawnBake
"money grubbing traitors"
Sounds a heck of a lot like calling out someone’s fanhood to me
by VolfanatETSU on Jan 18, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
to be honest
I’d say it’s better to not donate than to donate, get season tickets, and then sell off seats for big games to opposing fans.
Although this may be an issue where the athletic department and the actual coaches see things quite differently
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 18, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I was wondering that myself.
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Meh, I got no problem with that.
I find it humorous that some are falling over themselves to defend what in actuality are most likely far from Tennessee fans. Many of these discussed seats are likely held by coporate entities and are being used as perks for their clients to attend or sell to the highest bidder. I’ve been to a few games in that exact fashion.
But, carry on….
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
The only people I am defending...
… are season ticket-holders who may not attend every game for one reason or another. sddbaker (and others) have made it sound like these people are selling their tickets directly, in person, to Kentucky fans decked out in all blue, when that is not necessarily the case.
My family has seats in the 100 level at TBA and we don’t make it to every game. In some instances, tickets are given to friends or family or co-workers. What happens after that is beyond our control. If one of those people decides in the parking garage they’d rather sell the tickets on the street, then there’s nothing we can do about that. It certainly doesn’t make us “money-grubbing traitors”. I suspect there are a lot of donors/ticket-holders in the lower bowl for whom this is the case.
For the record, with regard to this game our seats should have been empty on Saturday. The tickets weren’t given away and we didn’t go.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
You should probably actually explain that...
instead of just seeming vaguely mad you’d prove your point a lot better and we’d have avoided a lot of pointless arguing.
You argued with sddbaker...
while never making it clear where you were coming from.
If you had just opened with your reasons for disagreeing with him it would probably been more effective than just disagreeing.
First off, sddbaker is a her, not a him
And I think I was making myself pretty clear, but thanks for the communication advice. I will try harder in the future.
In case it is still unclear what I am saying: It is really easy to criticize others’ loyalty from afar when you don’t actually attend the games yourself. Donors and ticket-holders have plenty of valid reasons for not attending every game, reasons that do not involve avarice or treason.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Okay, great. Let's all go home now.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 18, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
lighten up, francis
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Hey!
Send some my way!
I’ll wear orange!
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Follow @DawnBake
agree
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 17, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
I think a fan should always support the program,
but I don’t really blame anyone who doesn’t want to show up after some of the games this year… I support CCM, but it’ll be a common occurrence until he puts a proven winner on the court.
by VolfanatETSU on Jan 17, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
So, not to get ahead of ourselves or anything,
but if Stokes proves to be the super elite talent we think he is, can he go pro after a half season?
The NBA CBA states they have to be 1 year removed from high school, right? So that’s at least December 2012, and we have him for this year and next year, at least, right?
Just trying to decide how emotionally attached I want to get to having him on our team. I mean, I already bought his jersey (what? my jersey looks 5 years old? huh. weird.), but I want to know if he’s a Tobias or a Wayne, or somewhere in the middle.
Currently involved in the relentless pursuit of just being competitive.
by Huge Alien Head on Jan 17, 2012 11:25 AM EST reply actions
Yeah, can't go Pro this season regardless.
______________________________________________
Boom. Here comes the Boom. Braydy or not. Here comes the boy from the West.
Yay for next year!
I still think we have too much baggage to overcome this year to be a tournament team. And some more growing to do. There’s always hope, but I’m not sure we can grow fast enough to do it this year. An NIT berth seems like a successful year at this point to me.
Currently involved in the relentless pursuit of just being competitive.
by Huge Alien Head on Jan 17, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
rule is one year after your high school class graduates
his high school graduates May 2012, so he can’t go pro until 2013. Would love to see him three years though. Obviously depends on his development, his family situation, draft classes, etc.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 17, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Seth Davis doesn't think it's too late
https://twitter.com/#!/SethDavisHoops/status/159316942849712129
Seth davis @SethDavisHoops
Won’t surprise me. I say yes. RT @jhamp21: You said sunday Tennessee is sneaky good. Will they surprise some people and make the tourney?
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Seth Davis says some really dumb and really brilliant things.
It’s left as an exercise to the reader to decide which one this is.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 17, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
"Is it too late" is just the wrong question
with apologies to Patrick Brown, who generally does a good job, the answer is obvious. No, it’s not too late. There’s time left for a ton of stuff to happen. It’s not too late for South Carolina if they run off 12 straight wins.
The question is what will it take. Given that we only have two bad losses, we need at least that many in quality wins. Last year, we had an equally tough schedule and a couple bad losses (three RPI 100+, including one really, really bad loss—Charlotte had an RPI around 230) and got in with a 19-14 record—as did Southern Cal, Michigan State, and Penn State. So let’s say 19-14 is what it takes. We’re 8-9 right now, of course it’s not too late to go 19-14, it’s a silly question.
The interesting question is whether we can actually hit that mark. And to do it, we have to go 10-4 for the rest of the regular season. That’s 2-4 against Florida, Kentucky, Bama, Vandy, and UConn, and 8-0 against Georgia, Carolina, LSU, Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Auburn. Can we do that? We haven’t won a single road game yet this season. We followed up promising performances in Maui with a four game losing streak to teams with RPIs of 90 or higher. Let’s actually keep this solid play going for a couple weeks before we start talking about finishing 10-4 and making the tournament. Our next three games are at Georgia, vs UConn, and at Vandy. Go 2-1 in that stretch and we can seriously have this discussion. Until then, let’s just try to keep us this level of play. And maybe actually win a road game.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 17, 2012 1:43 PM EST reply actions
that too
but all of the “is it too late” comments are referring implicitly to at-large bids
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 17, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
I know we had this discussion the other day
And I mostly keep saying it to remind myself…we’re 8-9 with 0 road wins, 1 quality win, and 2 bad losses. Let’s worry about UGA tomorrow and leave it at that.
I like Tennessee and Vanderbilt. There aren't many like me, and they're probably better off for it.
Which is easier to do now
that you just have to be the 4th best team in the conference. That’s not a bad goal either.
by Will Shelton on Jan 17, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...
I could easily see us competing for 3rd/4th in the SEC, once again with the caveat that we keep playing like we have over the last 3.
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