2012: Derek Dooley vs. The Apocalypse
by Will Shelton on Jan 2, 2012 12:38 PM EST
in Tennessee Volunteer Football
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Print...and now without his defensive coordinator and top young recruiter.
We've known 2012 was going to be "the year" for Derek Dooley ever since the Vols lost to Kentucky. That's even more true today, not just because Justin Wilcox and Peter Sirmon have left Tennessee for Washington, but because a significant percentage of the Tennessee family has already made up their minds about UT's head coach. Some did when the clock struck zero in Lexington, but a large group joined them today.
Remember this: by all accounts, Justin Wilcox was offered the defensive coordinator position at Texas in December 2010. Texas. The school that won a National Championship in 2005 and played for another in 2009. The school that wraps up recruiting before the season actually starts because it eats its own state alive. The school that single-handedly triggered massive expansion in college football. With a sixty year old head coach who had just lost his coach-in-waiting to Florida. Justin Wilcox could've gone to Austin, done a good job, and reasonably could've been the head coach of the Longhorns one day.
He said no to Texas in December 2010. But he says yes to Washington in January 2012?
Not good, friends.
No disrespect to Washington - we're thousands of miles apart and never cross paths. I couldn't even tell you the last time we were recruiting the same player.
But despite Tennessee's struggles and massive, massive turnover over the last few years, this is not a lateral move. It's a sub-lateral move. If Steve Sarkisian has continued success, it may not look like a sub-lateral move very long. But right now? Since losing Rick Neuheisel after the 2002 campaign, Washington is 37-72. They've appeared in two bowl games. One of them, you'll recall, featured a defense last seen giving up 67 points and - jackpot! - 777 yards in the Alamo Bowl.
So all of this makes all of us come to the same conclusion: if Tennessee's two most coveted assistant coaches, the two guys that almost everyone said the Vols couldn't afford to lose, left a Vol defense that returns nine starters plus Herman Lathers to coach for a program that's won a third of its games in the last decade? They couldn't have done so for football reasons or upward mobility.
We all assume they're jumping off the Titanic.
Let's try to be at least a little rational: the Vols aren't going to fire Derek Dooley right now because he lost his defensive coordinator. That's not in the realm of possibilities. The Vols will take a recruiting hit without Wilcox and Sirmon, and it could be a very serious one, but Dooley will still be the coach at Tennessee in 2012.
But let's also understand this: who's going to jump on the Titanic?
Many of the names that fans are apt to throw out there - starting with John Chavis and flowing down a long way - are much more likely to be head coaching candidates in 2013 than defensive coordinator candidates right now. This means Dooley may have to take a chance on a young up-and-comer who will still be playing with less than a full deck depth-wise, and will have to teach those kids something new. Again.
Here are the Vol coaches and coordinators in the last six years:
- 2007: Phillip Fulmer - David Cutcliffe - John Chavis
- 2008: Phillip Fulmer - Dave Clawson - John Chavis
- 2009: Lane Kiffin - Jim Chaney - Monte Kiffin
- 2010: Derek Dooley - Jim Chaney - Justin Wilcox
- 2011: Derek Dooley - Jim Chaney - Justin Wilcox
- 2012: Derek Dooley - Jim Chaney - ???
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Doomed
We’re completely doomed.
and I think I’m being optimistic
by dmiles on Jan 2, 2012 12:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
We were doomed the day Kiffin took off.
I saw that news and immediately said we were staring at 10 years of mediocrity just from attrition.
Dooley CAN salvage this situation but this hire will have to be huuuuuuuuge.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
10 years was massive exaggeration then and continues to be now
it was always 3-4 years. the timing of this may add a couple though, depending on how it shakes out
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Call it what you want
But I said 10 years, not 3-4.
If Dooley is fired, it is going to be 10 years.
Nobody, not Don Shula, Jimmy Johnson, or whoever your favorite coach is is going to come in and win 9-10 games in his first year.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
I know what you said
I was disagreeing with you. There’s no rebuild in college football that lasts 10 years. How long did it take Baylor to build from absolutely nothing?
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Has there been any rebuild in the nation go quite like ours.
I find it hilarious that I’m actually the negative one in this discussion as I’m one of the rare eternal optimists on this site but what other program is having to or had to rebuild under the circumstances we face and the hurdles behind and in front of us?
Who?
NCAA investigations, coaches coming and going left and right, AD’s getting fired or retired or whatever. Would love to know what program has overcome all that in even 5 years.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
Pitt has had 4 coaches in 13 months
Baylor had a freaking murder
Alabama had a coach fired in February after he doing some unseemly things, with the NCAA on their back, and with an AD firing.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I don't really want to be Pitt tbh.
Baylor basketball has not recovered.
Alabama took EXACTLY 10 years to rebuild from Stallings to Saban.
Yes they had two 10 win seasons thrown in but the other 8 were not something I would accept at Tennessee if I didn’t have to.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
it only took Alabama that long to rebuild because they went to DuBose first
our situation post-Kiffin is Alabama’s situation post-Price. It took 5 years to rebuild from there.
I’m not saying it can’t be extended to 10 years with poor hires. I’m saying it’s not a 10 year rebuild.
And Baylor made the Elite Eight two years ago. That was their first one in 60 years. Seven years after the murder
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
(and four years after they were banned from playing non-conference games. four years. after a half-death penalty)
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
we also had an NCAA probation and bowl ban...
…thrown in that mix. UT’s rebuild is nothing like Bama’s was. No, Dooley is the not the right coach to get you where you want to go, and you’ll never do better than the Gator Bowl with him at the helm. No, Chavis is not coming back, not after he was $hit on by the administration after a lifetime of service. But UT is still in better shape than Bama was at our lowest point. Way better. You’re not that bad off.
I DO think, however, that this should serve as a wakeup call to the dreamers who think that UT is in a position to win 10 games or threaten the elite teams in the conference in 2012. You’re not that close, either.
we have the talent on the roster to win 10 games with good coaching on both sides of the ball
if everyone is healthy and whatnot and the schedule is favorable (which it probably is this year).
That said, I’m sure there are a lot of SEC teams who can say that. And the chances of coaching being good on both sides of the ball are pretty small, imo
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Can't talk about Baylor basketball as comparable
A basketball rebuild can happen much quicker than a football rebuild. Especially a football rebuild in the SEC without a natural recruiting base.
"Lattimore, as the kids can say, can ball, and sometimes does it to the extent one might say [he] is out of control in his balling." - Spencer Hall
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 2, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
..much accurate...
'Without change something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken.' -Frank Herbert
fair enough
but Alabama went 6 years from Price + postseason ban to 12-0. and they were #2 in their own state to Auburn for that period
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
I'm cosigning everything I_S is saying
A rebuilding job, by definition, can really only take 4 years. If you’re building for four years, at that point you’re good.
If you’re assuming 10 years, you are assuming an intervening future event of some kind.
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Jan 3, 2012 1:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
This would be accurate then
I never assumed Kiffin’s follow-up would have success and would have to be replaced in a few years which may or may not prove to be true and thus extend the time period.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
I referenced Jimbo getting 10 wins in his first year as HC with almost a completely new staff.
I would say 2-3 years is becoming expected as its been accomplished several times this day in age. I believe 3-5 years is more reasonable at TN. I agree that there is no decade long rebuild under normal circumstances. I mean truth be told any school is a couple recruits away from making an immediate turn around. If TN were to land a Newton, or a Lattimore the tide could change very quickly. Signs of stability in the staff will be key before that huge recruit jumps on board.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 3, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Jimbo Fisher won 10 in his first year as HC at FSU.
He also took the 36th rank recruiting class to 6th in the first week he was announced the coach. Its possible but not probable.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 3, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
Is Larry Porter a defensive coach?
Can we get an open thread for candidates or something?
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
running backs coach
but Raheem Morris has been a college DC before. Just got fired this morning
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
somebody throwing out names
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
yep
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Hiring him will throw napalm on a fire storm
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
Probably
but we saw with Dave Clawson what happens when you try to recruit without an offensive coordinator, and the negative impact of the 2008 class lasted much longer than Clawson’s failed season. If we feel like we can’t get anybody we want because no one feels safe here, it might be better to hire Spangler and recruit than to wait.
Again, timing is not our friend.
LA Tech was 41st in scoring and 57th in total defense this year, FWIW
and got better as the year went on
Yes sir...
the Spangler hire would be a total nightmare from the prospective of most.
You have been banned from Stampede Blue.
You called a writer a ‘douchebag.’ Sorry, gotta ban you for that comment.
Also I dont think the sky is falling on the defensive side of the ball
as a turn around on just one side of the ball could happen almost immediately with the right DC hire. I only reference FSU again because I know how they went about it. They went from a 100% man scheme under Mickey Andrews to a zone scheme under Stoops which required a complete overhaul in thinking and personnel. They ranked 96th when he took over and 2 years later they are top 5 with the biggest contributors being underclassmen and almost everyone returning. With the right hire TN’s defense will be fine especially since they probably wont be changing schemes completely imo. The biggest key is pushing the size up. I’m not sure what the combined weight of TN’s DL is right now but it needs to be 1800+lbs. Stature cant be underestimated on D.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 3, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Wonder what Washington fans are thinking today?
WE know what we are losing, but they are looking at getting two coaches that are 11-14 the last two season in their jobs.
Wonder if they feel like we did when Dooley was hired?
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
hop on over to UWDawgPound
they look pretty excited
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
More than excited!
Some of us have thought Holt suspect for over 2 years now. This was long over due. Just to give you a little insight, at some point “Dear God, can anyone be worse” was eventually a viable argument as to why we shouldn’t keep him. Regression to the mean should come into play, it’s hard to be that bad consistently…and yet he managed it.
So what does Wilcox defense look like?
I'm so positive, you'll need AZT later.
it's a little hard to tell what he wanted to do
because our personnel was awful. we lost our top two safeties and best linebacker to injury this year, and we started three true freshman on defense this year, a few more last year. Our defensive line personnel has not been SEC caliber since 2009. But he was known at Boise for a lot of playing around, showing different looks, mostly out of a nickel base. Look a couple posts down and I linked to an article on his in-game adjustments
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
One thing I just thought of:
wonder if there was a conflict between Dooley and Wilcox’s preferred defensive methods which caused some of that confusion.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 2, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
not sure
wasn’t Dooley a 3-4 guy at Tech?
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Saban disciple, so maybe.
Wilcox, meanwhile, was a multiple 40 guy.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 2, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
There could have been some conflict there.
But I would be surprised.
We did run a lot of 4-3 stuff over the past 2 seasons, but I feel like that’s what our personnel was fit to run. Wilcox seemed like the kind of coordinator who liked to give a lot of different looks. Over this last season, we saw 5 man fronts, 3 man fronts, etc.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 2, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Dooley was neither an offensive nor defensive coordinator
I find it hard to believe that he would have become wedded to a 3-4 philosophy as a tight ends coach and recruiting coordinator.
Schematics conflict highly unlikely.
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Jan 3, 2012 1:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I saw the article.
Really nice work, btw. I linked to it at UWDawgpound. Thank you.
I'm so positive, you'll need AZT later.
you're welcome
my Dad grew up a UDub fan, and I was born in Tacoma, so I’d like to see y’all have success. Kinda depressed that it’s coming at our expense, as you can see, but I hope I could help with some positivity over the offseason
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
When he gets players he can trust?
I think it has multiple fronts, well-disguised coverages, and a lot of complexity and wrinkles.
I really liked Wilcox. :(
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 2, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
honestly i wasn't that thrilled with the hire
i wasn’t sure why we would pay nearly a million for a guy from a 5-7 SEC team. but considering how you guys think the vols are doomed without him, maybe he’s a pretty good coach. any improvement over holt will be much appreciated
yeah, look at the number of freshman who played last year and this year
look at the improvement in the defense from last year to this year
and look at how his defenses tightened up as the games progressed
you’ll like him
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
vice versa...
I just came over here to see what your reaction would be…
not good, not good
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
I tried to head over and give my thoughts
but y’all have a 24 hour waiting period.
I wrote a very hopeful article on Wilcox last month. It’s depressing now, but y’all might enjoy it. I tweeted it @UWDawgPound, but I don’t think anybody linked it. FWIW
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Can you provide a link here?
Sorry for your loss, but it’s kinda the nature of the business a/ assistants. I think you guys have a right to be peeved about Kiffen’s hasty departure though . . .
Hope you guys are happy w/ the replacement DC.
by HuskyInExile on Jan 2, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
the "FWIW" is in orange because it is a link
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
and someone posted it around 11 AM PST at UWDawgPound
saw it in the comment thread, but couldn’t respond
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
and we get Wilcox wanting to go back home
but we’re afraid that jumping for a DC job instead of waiting for the HC job that was bound to come in a year or two (after all, all the rumors at ASU were Wilcox) meant that he saw serious issues with the current regime. and that’d be a bad sign.
we’re not mad, just worried.
best of luck next season
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Does anyone still care DeAnthony Arnett?
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
*about
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
Who?
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 2, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
No buyout for Justin Wilcox
thanks a bunch, Mike
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 1:54 PM EST reply actions
Seriously
So glad that clown is gone. More proof that nice guys finish last.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Jan 2, 2012 2:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You can be nice without being a pushover...
obviously Mike was both. We hired the Athletic Director equivalent of a high school guidance counselor.
Dave Hart is my biggest reason for positivity right now
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
I agree.
I’m trusting him to make a good decision regarding this whole thing.
I have a friend who posted on facebook that apparently Dave Hart is considering a “Huge” move. I don’t know what that means or where he got the info, but in the past, I’ve been able to trust what he’s heard.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 2, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
skeeter said that on VolNation
skeeter is the insideriest insider I know about.
he also said Dooley wants Kevin Steele, fwiw
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Kevin Steele
I don’t much about him as far as being a coordinator goes. He has played and coached at Tennessee in the past, and it would be a step up in terms of conference/job quality, so I could see it.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 2, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like a multiple guy.
Shakin’ the Southland has a ton on him.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 2, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
I like coaches who run multiple fronts.
I think it’s eventually what most good defenses are going to start doing, but that’s neither here nor there.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 2, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not a fan.
I think base + flexibility works really well, but I’m also better offensively than I am defensively, and given the practice time limitations, I’d rather install one thing and run it well than install five things and run them decently.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 2, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah.
I don’t think teams should sacrifice one great look in favor of 5 decent ones. And because of that, I think it can take some time—years even—to fully install a really good defense that can run a lot of different looks.
I just love the flexibility it lends and the way it can disguise what you’re doing.
But the time limitations are a big consideration. It probably makes more sense in the NFL than in college.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 2, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Right.
Give me 60-80 hours to teach a defense and I can be fine with as multiple as you’d like. 20 hours? Nope.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 2, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
steele worked for Saban
at Bama before Smart, in 07 and 08. Did a good job for us. He is a multiple front guy, for better or for worse. Used to be the HC at Baylor, and that didn’t end well…but it’s Baylor. It hasn’t ended well for anybody other than Grant Teaff, 20 yrs ago (though Briles is doing well now). He was also the LB coach for the Panthers when Kevin Greeene went ballistic and tried to kill him on the sidelines. Not quite Latrell Sprewell/PJ Carlesimo, but bad enough. He’s DC at Clemson now.
Right.
I was talking more about being a multiple guy. I’m generally a fan of purity in offensive and defensive philosophies; in college, that’s going to be effective. At the pro level? Maybe not, but that’s why we’re here.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 2, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
That was set as part of his renegotiated contract top keep him from Texas last season.
At his request. I do believe he had ALL the negotiating power in that deal.
But, yeah, thanks for everything Hammy.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
Dooley Dead Man Walking
I wouldn’t put his chances of getting fired before the start of spring football at zero. What if he is fired the day after signing day? He gets a massive buyout for trying to stock the cupboard with whatever scraps UT can still lure to the Hill.
Dooley lost the team this past year; the loss at UK shows it. What quality coordinators would come to UT with Dooley in place as a lame duck coach? No one, that’s who. I really thought things hit rock bottom with the UK loss. It is depressing to learn there is still more depth to the rabbit hole.
I wonder if Dave Hart is the kind of guy who would fire a coach in Dooley’s position. Firing Dooley and cleaning house vs. letting him coach for his job while trying to attract decent coordinators are not the two choices I was hoping UT would be facing during Silly Season.
Rough times for my alma mater, man. The glory days of the 90’s have never seemed so far away.
I have been wondering the same thing...
And the one thing I keep thinking is that keeping Dooley on should be about consistency, however we have now lost what is it 3 or4 coaches this offseason, so no consistency is out the window. We have multiple positons to start over with, at this point so what is a few more??
You have been banned from Stampede Blue.
You called a writer a ‘douchebag.’ Sorry, gotta ban you for that comment.
if we can find our guy right now, I say we pull the trigger
if we can’t, let Dooley coach a lame duck year. better to lose a year than to lose three. In hindsight, we might’ve been better off with a Kippy year than we were hiring Dooley. Brady Hoke would’ve been available at the end of that season. And we could’ve gotten him before the Michigan job came open
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
At least we can agree on Kiffin
Bummed that we’re poaching from our only sailgating brethren.
Definitely a sub-lateral move in terms of talent available on the defensive side. Must’ve been just lured by the West Coast, otherwise a weird deal. Even his salary would go a lot farther in Knoxville than Seattle. Obviously we’re stoked on the hire, but wanted to express condolences. Good luck Rocky Toppers.
Always giving 110% while taking it one comment at a time.
thanks
best of luck to you too
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Not a sub-lateral move
Sorry, it isn’t. Washington is a better place to work right now and has been for a good chunk of the last 3 decades.
Well, Seattle's nice.
That’s what you mean, right?
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 2, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Oh. Um.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 2, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
you might could argue this coming year, but not recently
and a good chunk of the last three decades is ridiculous. Washington wasn’t a better job at any point between 1995 and 2009. I can’t really speak to the 80s, but that covers half of the last three decades. The last half. If the 80s are your point. . .
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
That statement is hilaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarious.
"I condone fun things" ~~ Cortland Finnegan
Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me.
Effing magnets! How do they work?!?
It's a safer place to work right now, that's absolutely true
and y’all may very well be good again before we are.
But to suggest that Washington has been a better program than Tennessee at any point since you shared a title in 1991 is absurd. That’s twenty years, which is more than enough time to make it a sub-lateral move. There’s no LOL WASHINGTON going on here – the guy turned down Texas to stay with us last year. It’s not disrespect, it’s fact.
by Will Shelton on Jan 2, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bzzzt
“But to suggest that Washington has been a better program than Tennessee at any point since you shared a title in 1991 is absurd. "
It was better in 1992, a wash in 1994 (well into mid 90’s territory), 2000, 2001, I would argue 2009, and undisputedly in 2010 and 2011. You have no business loling, and that’s a fact.
2001? hahahahahahahahahahahahah
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair, 7/30 is a decent average for a utility shortstop.
.233 with a glove isn’t totally unplayable. (hint: this is a fallacy, even if your name is Rey Ordonez.)
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 2, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
You're forgetting
Almost the entire decade of the 80’s and the very early 90’s, hth
If we're reaching back decades, why reach back only to the 80s?
Tennessee has been the better program since the mid 20s, when Robert Neyland took over.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Jan 2, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
you can have the 80s
but we were better in the 30s and 40s. what now?
last fifteen years, Tennessee is a better program. there’s no argument
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Not the last two
And since you’re clearly a “what have you done for me lately” guy, there you go
is "not having all the best players injured" equivalent to "better program"?
if so, there you go
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
does Washington have better depth?
or did you not have to find out?
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Not lately we don't. Don't quite know what Jake is driving at,
other than maybe tending to a little wounded pride.
We’ve been VERY unhappy about UW football until quite recently (post Sark), and while I’m proud of our overall winning tradition over the long haul, it’s a big stretch say our football program is ‘better.’
Now Sailgating; we’ve got that whipped!
You really oughta do lakefront approach someday, if able . . .
by HuskyInExile on Jan 2, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
we do a pretty good job ourselves
but we don’t have a lake, just a river.
I’ve actually been pretty high on Washington lately (I’ve actually been y’all’s highest voter in the BlogPoll multiple weeks this year), so it really wasn’t meant as disrespect, but. . . the man turned down Texas to stay at Tennessee. Texas, who prints their own money and doesn’t even have to worry about recruiting. When he bolts for Washington, red flags go up
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Your original comment was "a good chunk of the last three decades"
First of all, there’s nothing undisputed about the last two years; you went 14-12 in the Pac-10/12, we went 11-14 in the SEC. Second, our 2001 team would’ve done terrible things to you. So that leaves two years.
This is not the day to show up on our site for the first time and play fast and loose with history. Again, we’ve got no issue with you all and never have. There’s no shame in being a worse football program than Tennessee in the last twenty years, because most of college football is.
And...
you actually went 3-13 in the SEC while we went 10-8 in the PAC 10/12. Fast and loose indeed
oh?
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
so by that logic..
UT would go undefeated in the Pac 12 because the Pac 10/12 is not 1/10th as good as the SEC
Pretty sure
We could win 4 games over the last two years in the SEC. You have Kentucky, Vandy, and Ole Miss after all
WAIT!
4-11 in the SEC. You’ll have to forgive me, along with its own fans I sometimes forget Kentucky is an SEC school.
To be fair, they remember Kentucky is a SEC school during basketball season.
I think you just meant they forget they have a football program.
Formerly 'snail. You get used to it after a while.
by Chris Pendley on Jan 2, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Hence the comment
Football is The Sport, and supposedly even more so in the SEC. A basketball school is a shameful school, and a basketball school in the SEC is the most shameful of all.
We beat the same number of bowl teams this year
Who is better at this very moment can certainly be debated, and I mentioned above that it looks right now that UW will be good again before UT. Wilcox certainly has to believe he has a better chance at success at Washington. But it’s still a sub-lateral move in terms of each program overall and the defensive talent he would be working with.
The key number...
is Tennessee making twice what Washington does in terms of football revenue. And close to double in total AD revenue(before donations). That winless season(and the entire WIllingham experiment) really hurt the perception of Washington.
Fill a 100,000+ seat stadium and draw 35,000 to a spring game and I might agree. Wilcox went to UW because he figured the entire staff was a lame duck, and he wouldn’t last through next season.
Tennessee isn’t making anywhere close to twice what Washington makes in football revenue ($56MM vs. $35MM). That’s currently a big gap but we’re actually going to start getting paid for our TV rights next year (about another $13MM/yr on top of what we’re making now) and our new stadium comes online in 2013 (another $10MM/yr. + in additional revenue.) That puts us right in the same territory. You’ll probably get a boost with your own TV renegotiation but you won’t be in another universe by any means.
80’s through mid 90’s, perhaps early 2000’s, and since Kiffin was hired. I don’t wish ill on you guys at all but a lot of this LOL WASHINGTON stuff I’m seeing is pretty unwarranted, especially from you guys.
between 1995 and 2010, Washington was ranked ahead of Tennessee twice. in 16 years
And they were not consecutive. And Tennessee was in the national title hunt the prior year in each case. There’s no argument for UDub being the better job any time in that span. Mid-90s is laughable unless you mean “early 90s” when you say “mid 90’s.”
And Tennessee was in a far better position than Washington when Kiffin was hired. The mayhem in Kiffin’s wake is when Washington started drawing even and perhaps moving ahead. But this is the first time in 15 years that you can make that argument. I wasn’t around in the 80s, so I can’t really comment, but being better in the 80s isn’t saying much in 2012.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
dooley is awful
Tennessee used to be a storied and respectable national football program. However, there commitment to winning was obviously absent when they hired a coach from LA TECH that even there, had a losing record. If Derek’s last name was Smith, instead of DOOLEY, he would still be losing at LA TECH instead of losing at UT. 2 years later he has beaten Vandy twice, Kentucky once and been the near cellar dweller of the SEC. Dooley is a good guy but an awful football coach. Unlike OHIO STATE , who just hired Urban Myer, Tennessee isn’t commited to winning and wont with such poor hires. The fact that two assistant coaches leave UT for WASH is telling about how far this football team has fallen. To think that Dooley can match wits with the coaching staff at South Carolina, Arkansas, Bama, LSU, Georgia and Florida is insanity. However, UT may be able to be an average football program at some point…
nobody would jump in the situation Kiffin left us
has nothing to do with our commitment to winning. the trick is getting the right guy this time
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that it isn't a question of commitment to winning
I also agree that Dooley is in over his head in the SEC. He’s Mike Shula with a law degree. Famous last name, but no results to back it up. I can’t help but think it’s a little of the “reap what you sow” coming home to roost in Knoxville. What did Fulmer and Chavis get for a lifetime of service and loyalty to the university? Thrown out on their asses for Lane Kiffin and his daddy. Think Chavis would be welcomed back now? Hell yeah, he would. Think he’d ever consider it? Nope, nor should he after the way he was discarded.
it was time for Fulmer to go
there’s no arguing that. Now Kiffin. . . yeah, you can argue that. although, much as I hate to say it, he’s been impressive this year
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
Get ready for the Pac-12
The Pac-12 is reinventing college football.
We just signed the most expensive media contract in history with room for much more growth.
Nearly every Pac-12 team is in the middle of massive stadium rebuilding projects.
We just signed an historical agreement with the Big Ten for future collaboration.
The Pac-12 schools are hiring any coaches we want, from ANYBODY.
So yes, after you drop lines like: “This is not a lateral move. It’s a sub-lateral move.”.
Your in the past. You need to open your eyes and see the landscape shifting.
I’m looking forward to seeing Dalton rocking a Huskies jersey next year. GO DAWGS.
It's such a good thing
the Pac12 plays a lot of defense.
Also…only 10 of our teams will be watching on January 9th…how about your conference?
by GhostDance on Jan 2, 2012 8:46 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Let's not forget
that U-Dub just gave up 8.6 million yards to RG3 and Baylor on nat’l TV a few days ago, got skunked by Nebraska earlier this season (who just today got skunked by SC, the 5th best team in the SEC), got hammered by Stanford, and lost by 17 points to the worst Oregon St team in a decade. SEC has 6 consecutive BCS titles. So, congrats on a good hire, but don’t get ahead of yourselves. If the best you can come up with is “we just hitched our credibility wagon to the Big freakin’ 10”, then you’re still eating at the kids table.
by 13 Rings on Jan 2, 2012 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Well said
You have been banned from Stampede Blue.
You called a writer a ‘douchebag.’ Sorry, gotta ban you for that comment.
5th? Only if you want to argue that Auburn is 4th
And good luck with that.
"Lattimore, as the kids can say, can ball, and sometimes does it to the extent one might say [he] is out of control in his balling." - Spencer Hall
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 2, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
uh Georgia
they did win the East. I personally have Carolina ahead of them, but there’s an argument to be made for the Dawgs. less of one after this afternoon though
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
I understand who he was probably putting there,
but it is not a very strong argument. Just because a certain argument can be made, doesn’t mean it is a smart one.
"Lattimore, as the kids can say, can ball, and sometimes does it to the extent one might say [he] is out of control in his balling." - Spencer Hall
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 2, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Given that Georgia lost to Carolina in their own stadium and has not defeated
a team in the final rankings since 2009, it’s very difficult to argue that UGa is #4.
"Lattimore, as the kids can say, can ball, and sometimes does it to the extent one might say [he] is out of control in his balling." - Spencer Hall
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 2, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
they had fewer conference losses
they beat Auburn 45-10
y’all needed a crazy amount of turnovers to beat them.
I don’t buy the argument, but you can make it
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 2, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Georgia did win the division
Carolina didn’t
Yeah, very well said.
Were hoping Wilcox can help improve our D, big time.
by HuskyInExile on Jan 2, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know what the big fuss is
I’ve been telling y’all the truth since Kentucky. Where is the smart guy that said I was unreasonable? Where’d he go?
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Jan 2, 2012 8:14 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Is there any chance that
Wilcox realized how much pressure would be on his defense in 2013 and maybe even 2014? They will surely be asked to carry the load with the losses of Bray, Hunter, Rogers, Rivera, and now Arnett. They could be good but it is possible they would have to be elite to keep TN’s head above water in the coming years as the offense will be an enormous question mark. Thoughts? Also I say this while considering he might see a HC change at TN in the near future and he could be running for more security? I’m not sure. You definitely know more about it than I do as far as the vols go.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 3, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I can't imagine a DC jumping ship because his Defense might be expected to be good in a couple years
If that were the case, we didn’t want him anyway and so good riddance. But I would bet everything I own that wasn’t the case.
No homer.
by kidbourbon on Jan 4, 2012 3:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not leaving because theyll be good, but rather
not good enough to help a team losing virtually all its contributors on offense maybe? He might see a very down couple of years in 2013 and 2014 and not want to be lumped in with the firestorm that could hit if Dooley is ousted. I think its much more of a move about security rather than going home imo.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
Washington is a step up - sorry.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but a move to Washington does represent a step up. Why? Three reasons:
1. Tennessee is at home during bowl season while Washington was playing in a bowl. They may have given up a ton of yards, but they also hung over 50 points on #12 Baylor. Any improvement on the defensive side will easily yield a 10 win season. Don’t see that sort of upside available at Tennessee these days…
2. While Washington had its stretch of futility, this is a storied program with two national championships to its name, so it’s not like the coaches are going to a place without any sort of winning tradition…oh – and Washington has posted better records than Tennessee each of the last two seasons.
3. If Tennessee were so great, how is it that you import from the West Coast only to lose coaches after a year or two to the Pac-12? See Kiffin.
Sorry, Tennessee, you aren’t what you used to be. Take it from a Washington fan – it’s easy to fall and very hard to return to where you once were.
There is the whole money thing you're leaving out and that matters a lot.
Tennessee is in the top 10 as far as football revenue/availability of funds to pay coaches in the country. I also dont think I’m going out on a limb to say TN’s facilities are probably on another level from Washington’s although I’ll admit I’m not familiar with Washington’s. Other than that I agree with much of what you said. The Kiffin was a stretch though as the USC job is an upgrade in every way over TN and most of the other jobs in the country, not to mention its Kiffin’s home. I’m not sure how many other Pac 12 jobs Tennessee coaches would run off to if the vols come back up to even mediocre. I say this as an FSU fan living in TN so I’m pretty neutral. I will also say it is likely Washington is a better job as far as job security goes, but the rise of Tennessee back to relevance is inevitable.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
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