Bench Duty: Tennessee Volunteers 73, Ole Miss Rebels 60
by Chris Pendley on Feb 22, 2012 9:20 PM EST
in Tennessee Volunteer Baseball
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PrintThe end result was expected, but the methods certainly weren't. After a dead lackluster start, Tennessee came back in force - and it wasn't thanks to Jeronne Maymon, either. Amazingly, Dwight Miller and Jordan McRae led the charge back before Maymon, Cameron Tatum, and Trae Golden came in to help finish the job.
This game certainly didn't look good at the start. Ole Miss jumped out to a quick 15-2 lead thanks to Terrance Henry and Murphy Holloway combining to physically dominate the Vols for the better part of the first six minutes of the game. Frustrated, Cuonzo Martin basically did a complete subbing out of the starters (with the exception of Jeronne Maymon) to see if that would provide a spark.
It worked. Tennessee promptly (well, as promptly as this team does anything on offense) went on a 21-2 run over the next 6 minutes thanks to Miller and McRae dropping seven each on that run. Somewhere in there, the rest of the game fell into place - defense, rebounding, ball control to an extent (although that took until the second half to really get nailed down) - so when the Rebels responded with a late 9-0 run to close the first half, it didn't feel like the game was over. It felt a little like the last gasp.
The second half was straight anaconda. Ole Miss had a chance according to the scoreboard, but there was no way they were going to actually come back. A 31-30 Tennessee deficit turned into a 39-33 Tennessee lead turned into a 47-39 Tennessee lead turned into a 60-50 Tennessee lead and by that point, it was just too late.
I'm floored at the team maturity in a game like this; quite frankly, I thought this game was over after the 15-2 Revel opening. After that, the Vols outscored the Rebels 71-45, which is just absurd for a team that is still in many ways a year away. (We're not talking NCAA here, don't start. There's too far to come and not enough time to get there.) That's a credit to CCM, who I'm becoming more and more impressed with as days go by.
McRae gets the POG award with 16 points, 6 boards, 4 assists, and one thundering tomahawk dunk that will show up on highlight reels for at least a night. Miller gets some serious props for an out-of-nowhere 10 points, 7 boards, and 2-3 from beyond the arc . Game notes are below the fold.
- Not to be outdone, Maymon had 18 points and 11 boards, and was critical in the second half anaconda action. Great interior control, especially after getting bossed around early by Henry and Holloway (who ended up fouling out).
- Speaking of fouls, kind of weird story from the line: Ole Miss had 22 fouls to only 10 by Tennessee. Normally you'll see a few random calls to even things out a bit, but not so much in this case. The Vols ended up 18-26 from the line, which doesn't sound like a big deal except they started 1-7 at the stripe. Weird way to get there, but no complaints about the end result.
- Nothing doing for Skylar McBee tonight, who couldn't hit from downtown at all, was picked on a bit on D, and ended up riding pine with McRae did his thing. Maybe only one McPlayer can go off on any given night.
- Jarnell Stokes had a couple of huge, that-guy-is-wildly-talented moments, but on the whole, 8 points on 7 shots and 8 boards isn't much to write home about.
Saturday puts the Vols in Columbia for a game against South Carolina. It's an evening tip (8 PM), ad the Vols don't have much of a margin for error.
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Teams ahead of us on NIT-ology
among those ahead of us…
Ohio is winning at a 16-8 Buffalo team.
Buffalo is obviously losing the above game.
Wagner plays 2-26 Bryant University tomorrow
Pitt lost to USF Sunday, and doesn’t play again until Sunday at #17 Louisville
Stanford plays at 18-8 Colorado tomorrow
Loyola(Md) plays at 11-18 Rider on Friday
Virginia Tech lost at home to Virginia yesterday, and plays at Duke on Saturday
Kent State lost to a bad Miami(Oh) team yesterday and plays a mediocre Bowling Green Saturday
Duquense lost at home to Dayton today
Maryland beat Miami Tuesday and plays at a horrible Georgia Tech on Saturday
Denver is off this week, and plays North Texas on Sunday
Missouri State is down 8 to Indiana State at home right now
Loyola-Marymount hosts San Diego tomorrow
Princeton plays at 5-21 Dartmouth on Saturday
Yale hosts 10-14 Cornell on Saturday
Tulsa is at Tulane on Saturday
St. Bonaventure is up 2 at Fordham early in the 2H
Lehigh won at 3-24 Navy today, and plays at Army on Saturday
So yeah, win this weekend and we’ll probably be in the next time they update.
it's amazing to me how we can just thrash teams
and move significantly ahead of them in the conference standings, yet be lightyears behind them on the NIT bubble. Arkansas a 2 seed and Ole Miss a 5 while Tennessee was waaaaaay outside? Even before tonight, that was completely unreasonable. I hope the NIT looks at something other than final record, because we’re better than that.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 22, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, good.
It’s nice to know I’m not the only one who feels this way.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I know you will be stunned but I agree - If we could split the season in half to compare
I think it would be meaningful. Not just W/L but all the stats should be much more impressive in the post-Stokes era.
And, it’s not just the addition of Stokes, but the team really started playing defense and had more maturity and unity at about the same time.
Don’t know if any number crunchers can compare 1H and 2H for kenpom, RPI, pts allowed, etc but I do think it would be interesting.
Stokes'd about ZoVols - don't care what the record is.
When we lost to Memphis the second time, we were 124 in KenPom
slightly up from the season low point at 127 after playing The Citadel. Today we’re 67 and were 66 before we lost to Alabama. So we’ve cut that number almost in half. Our RPI was 290 after Austin Peay and 274 after the second Memphis loss, and today it’s 102.
In the first 14 games we allowed 69.5 ppg, 43.9% from the field, 37.0% from the arc, and forced 11.7 turnovers per game. In the last 14 games, we’ve allowed 60.6 ppg, 39.5% from the field, 32.0% from the arc, and forced 12.3 turnovers per game.
by Will Shelton on Feb 23, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks, Will. The defense clearly improved in the second half of the season and,
to see that big of a slice in KenPom/RPI, means by definition that our 2H ratings have to be among the stronest in the country.
274 RPI second Memphis
combined with X (teens, twenties…) Ferris Bueller Math Geeks Anyone, Anyone
equals a full season RPI of 102
Stokes'd about ZoVols - don't care what the record is.
by memphispete on Feb 23, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
linkfail
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhiCFdWeQfA
Stokes'd about ZoVols - don't care what the record is.
by memphispete on Feb 23, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
if it were just an average
we’d have to have an RPI of negative 72 to get from 274 to 102.
I’m not sure exactly how RPI is calculated, so I’m not sure where we’d be in second half alone. I suspect top 50.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 23, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Formula
(Team win pct).25+(Average opponent win pct).5+(average opponents opponents win pct)*.25
Win pct is calculated a bit funny with weighting depending on where the game was at relative to the outcome.
Wins
Home = *.6
Road = *1.4
Neutral = *1
Losses
Home = *1.4
Road = *.6
Neutral = *1
It’s designed to equal out across all games.
One that that has benefited us is that the penalty per loss decreases as new games are added into the formula.
Appreciate both IS and Caban but...
the point I am trying to make is that the formula above applied to 2H of the season (slightly better W-L against much harder competition) should result in a much better RPI.
I know it’s not a straight avg. Wasn’t trying to imply that. Just thinking that the RPI would need to be top 50 to show that much improvment.
And, why would a Top 50 performance in the 2H matter?? Well, it would seem like a great stat to put in front of the NIT Selection Committee – Sports AD.
Stokes'd about ZoVols - don't care what the record is.
I was just explaining the RPI formula...
And yeah, if we did an RPI of the games since the first of the year we’d be a top 30 team with zero bad losses and a handful of good wins.
extrapolating out...
We’d be about even with West Virginia at #44, but without a bad loss to St. Johns… and with 3 top 30 wins to WVU’s one.
Top 30 is a bit much, but we’d likely be between 35 and 40.
Top 30, Top 35, Top 40
All of those should be good enough to merit an NIT bid.
That Top 35 RPI should be talked about at length because the difference is HUGE from a perception standpoint.
This 101 RPI stuff doesn’t reflect the 2H run.
Stokes'd about ZoVols - don't care what the record is.
Georgia wouldn't count as a bad loss?
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 23, 2012 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
And you did a good job with the RPI - wasn't complaining
just trying to make my point a little clearer.
UT Sports AD should figure out the math and put it in their Media package for the remainder of the season.
UT Sports AD should emphasize that this is a new team under Stokes – even though it may be as much about coming together on defense and “getting it” as the addition of the Size 20s.
Stokes'd about ZoVols - don't care what the record is.
Nice Wrap and good game for the Vols
McRae was freakin awesome playing at an All SEC level tonight
Maymon was stellar
and MILLIER was the surprise nobody expected showing up as a passable replacement for Hall.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Just for posterity...
Ken Pomeroy
Tennessee was ranked #74
Ole Miss was ranked #115
They projected a 65-59 win with a 74% probability of victory
LiveRPI hasn’t updated yet, and has us at #101 with a rating of .5408
Pomeroy > RPI
It's Great! To be! A Tennessee Vol!
Unfortunately, the 101 is the new RPI ranking
Ole Miss dropped to 70…home wins aren’t worth nearly as much.
by Will Shelton on Feb 22, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
yeah...
I just realized that. They don’t record D2 wins.
So Ole Miss drops 7 spots from 63 to 70
And we go up 8 from 109 to 101
Good to know there are 31 teams between us and a team we just beat by double digits.
I know
Arkansas 21 spots in front of us still too.
I’m the head-to-head/whole body of work guy, but if ever one was to make a case for the Vols being among the best 68 teams right now, this is the year.
What’s absolutely murdering us in RPI, aside from Austin Peay: Louisiana-Monroe is 328 out of 344, The Citadel is 324, Chattanooga is 307
by Will Shelton on Feb 22, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
And part of that is, look at UT in December, look at UT now. UT now, especially at home, is able to play down to the last minute against the top team in the country. In December, UT literally lost at home to Austin Peay
It's Great! To be! A Tennessee Vol!
So I know we'll have to beat them in Red Stick anyway
But…go UGA? Beat LSU? It’s a…well, it was a 4-point game. Now it’s a 7-point game with 5 minutes to go.
I like Tennessee and Vanderbilt. There aren't many like me, and they're probably better off for it.
I was thinking more of that SECT bye
Since the Bayou Bengals were one of those 6-6 teams to start the week.
I like Tennessee and Vanderbilt. There aren't many like me, and they're probably better off for it.
We'd probably get an easier opener
But would have to win 2 games to get UK.
I like Tennessee and Vanderbilt. There aren't many like me, and they're probably better off for it.
Given Vandy's next 3 games
Vandy 8 and 4 could end up 9 and 7
at KY
vs UF
and at Tenn
we have a decent chance at moving into the 3 seed
Bama is 6 and 6 and could end up 8 and 8
at Arkansas
vs Ms St and Auburn
and at Ol Miss
If we can win out we’re 10 and 6
and could be tied with a UF team we beat twice.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Too early for #BeatUSC?
We struggle so much on the road, I really can’t see us beating LSU (and could see us blowing it against USC if we’re not careful). And Vandy at home will certainly be tough.
To Caban’s point, I might rather be a #6 than a #4…possibly a #7 (assuming UF takes the #2 seed). I suppose the reality that none of us want to address is that it won’t matter what seed we get. If we want to win the SECT, we’ll have to beat UK. Which is…unlikely.
I like Tennessee and Vanderbilt. There aren't many like me, and they're probably better off for it.
Well
LSU lost 6 of 8 prior to this last little mini streak
and Auburn took them to OT at home plus a 6 pt win over Arky
in the last 4 wins
vs a shorthanded Bama after the 4 suspensions
a 2 point OT win over a sliding Ms State at home
and wins at SC and vs UGA tonight
This is a team we can beat along with SC on the road (not that it will be easy given our road woes)
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
yeah, I don't see a win in Red Stick, but if it happens, we have a serious shot at a 3 seed
but I’d definitely rather be 6 or 7 than 5. Way easier second round matchup, and the first round is comparable (7 plays Auburn, 6 plays UGA, 5 plays USC)
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 22, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
what?
5 seed and we have to play UK just as early as we would with a 4 seed. And I don’t much care what LSU does. If they beat us, they’re ahead of us. If they don’t, they’re not.
Vol dream scenario is as follows:
*Tennessee wins out
*Alabama loses at least one game (at Arkansas, at Ole Miss, vs MSU, vs Auburn)
*Vandy loses to either Florida or Kentucky
Vols get the 3 seed
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 22, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
sorry, this requires Vandy lose to Kentucky. the Florida game doesn't matter
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 22, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
He has come alive in the 2nd half
He hasn’t been right all year…Vandy needs him if they’re going to do ANYTHING in the postseason.
I like Tennessee and Vanderbilt. There aren't many like me, and they're probably better off for it.
I really think Vandy will be a 3 seed disguised as a 6 seed
Not sure if that will help them get past their first day demons or not, but still…massively underrated
by Will Shelton on Feb 22, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
The last 2 Sweet 16's came as a 6 seed
But this team is 3 points away from being 23-5, so I tend to agree with you.
There was an interesting comment made by one of the Daves earlier in the 2nd half that maybe this team isn’t greater than the sum of its parts. I might believe that.
I like Tennessee and Vanderbilt. There aren't many like me, and they're probably better off for it.
That's probably a good comment
they always look like they don’t play as well together as they should
by Will Shelton on Feb 22, 2012 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Jenkins and Taylor are #s 1 and 2 in the conference in scoring
And Ezeli should be a reliable big man (though I think the knee injuries have really set him back this year). But for some reason, this group hasn’t been able to quite put it all together for 3 straight years. It’s frustrating as all get out.
I like Tennessee and Vanderbilt. There aren't many like me, and they're probably better off for it.
Andy Kennedy from the podium:
On how Tennessee is different under Cuonzo Martin:
“Completely different. The old Tennessee teams were more into full court and it was a little more frenetic, a little more dependent on outside-in. This team is a grind-it-up team that defends you in the half court. They’re not going to give you anything easy.
by Will Shelton on Feb 22, 2012 9:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Great quote. Opposing coaches seem universally impressed.
Not just coach-speak either. With Pearl, I don’t recall them being as complimentary.
For all Pearl’s success, the opposing coach contrast with Zo is a bit surprising.
Stokes'd about ZoVols - don't care what the record is.
Pearl rubbed opponents the wrong way.
I’m sure some of it went back to the Deon Thomas affair, but I think it was more that his personality was an easy one for non-Vols to dislike. Cuonzo isn’t that way at all.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
P.S. - Pearl also beat them more often than not.
It’s easy to be complimentary of a nice guy you just beat.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
stupid Gamecocks...
hit two meaningless three pointers late to cover.
That’s what I get for deciding to make my first basketball hypotheticals of the season.
LSU does get the win over Georgia
so Vols and Tigers tied at 7-6, Alabama is at Arkansas tomorrow night to try to get there as well. We can take care of LSU ourselves next week – a Bama loss tomorrow would put us in control of our own destiny for a first round bye, which is really impressive.
winning out should get us to the 3 seed
given Vandy’s remaining games.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
note that if we win out, we will control a potential tiebreaker over Vandy
unless they beat Kentucky
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 22, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Since division record doesn't exist anymore
What’s the tiebreaker sequence? Start with record against the #1 team in the conference and move down from there?
I like Tennessee and Vanderbilt. There aren't many like me, and they're probably better off for it.
After head-to-head, obvi
I like Tennessee and Vanderbilt. There aren't many like me, and they're probably better off for it.
yep
so if UT and Vandy both finish 10-6 and Alabama is not in a 3-way tie, it’ll come down to whether or not Vandy won in Rupp. If so, they’ll be 1-1 against the #1 seed. If not, it’ll move to the #2 seed, where our land in Gainesville will come in quite handy
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 22, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
In theory, doesn't it net out?
We would’ve moved up with a UGA win, but the potential impact of a win at LSU would’ve been diminshed.
I like Tennessee and Vanderbilt. There aren't many like me, and they're probably better off for it.
we played UGA twice
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 22, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
I keep waiting for them to post video of this
but this is pretty good too – look at the facial expressions of the three guys on the far left
I also like the girl who's face is behind the ball
I like Tennessee and Vanderbilt. There aren't many like me, and they're probably better off for it.
And here it is
game highlights – McRae’s dunk is at 1:35. It’s the second look at it that’s really impressive – he throws it down so hard from so far away with a guy flying at him.
by Will Shelton on Feb 22, 2012 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Wish we had more guys that would do that:
“Screw this, I’m dunking.”
by Will Shelton on Feb 22, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
And this...
is why you run the “Figure 8” drill.
Nice ball movement and a excellent bounce pass by Maymon.
Sgt Rutledge aka Woody Strode
lol...
5dimes has odds on professional wrestling. Anyone else see serious potential for abuse there?
I'd like to put everything I own on Rock over Cena at WrestleMania then
by Will Shelton on Feb 22, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Strangely...
The Rock is a 1.5/1 favorite in the match, but Cena is a 3/1 favorite to hold the belt at the end of the show
missed all of this one
but glad to hear we were able to shrug off a bad start. I echo all the comments about that showing extreme toughness.
and we’re also about 1,000 times better than Ole Miss. We can’t be behind them in the NIT hunt. That’s absurd. Speaking of which, words about RPI
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
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by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 22, 2012 10:23 PM EST reply actions
also
we’ve now clinched finishing 9th or above in the SEC. the 11th prediction is officially wrong
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 22, 2012 10:41 PM EST reply actions
Doing the math...
Austin Peay is costing us close .03 points in the RPI or 40 whole spots. Of course considering how bad they are, even a win over them would have hurt more than simply not playing them.
That's ridiculous to have such a heavy weight on one game.
"Do the Titans have a miracle left in them in what has been a magical season to this point? If they do, they need it now. Christie kicks it high and short. Gonna be fielded by Lorenzo Neal at the 25; he dishes it back to Wycheck; he throws it across the field to Dyson. 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, endzone...touchdown, Titans! There are no flags on the field! It's a miracle! Tennessee has pulled a miracle! A miracle for the Titans!"
by TennesseeTyrants on Feb 22, 2012 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...
as silly as it is though, the winning pct of your opponents is valued twice as much as your own winning pct.
yet another reason
RPI is a flawed stat
It's Great! To be! A Tennessee Vol!
Well that's dumb.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
The guys who run the Bracket Matrix
put their first NIT projections up on Monday – the Vols were a 7 seed before beating Ole Miss last night
Looks like the win over Ol Miss will move us up in their bracket
as would a win at LSU.
The formula is pretty simple for us – beat SC LSU and Vandy
and win one game in the SEC Tourney to get a decent seed in the NIT – a tournament we actually stand a decent chance of winning – that might be of more benefit to the team than a first round loss in the NCAA.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
right now, I just want to take care of business against USC
that would put us on the NIT bubble even if we lose three straight. But if we can pull off 2-1 in the next three games, I have to think we’re an NIT lock. If we don’t lose until Saturday of the conference tournament, as you suggest, we’ll very likely host two NIT games. And if we don’t lose until Sunday of the conference tournament, we’re back on the NCAA bubble.
#BeatUSC
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 23, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
(of course, we'll deservedly be underdogs against both LSU and Vandy)
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 23, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
The LSU record gives me some hope
LSU lost 6 of 8 prior to this last little mini streak
and Auburn took them to OT at home plus a 6 pt win over Arky
in the last 4 wins
vs a shorthanded Bama after the 4 suspensions
a 2 point OT win over a sliding Ms State at home
and wins at SC and vs UGA
This is a team we can beat along with SC on the road (not that it will be easy given our road woes) If there was ever a time and chance to show we can win away from home these are two good opportunities.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
A good question
Would you prefer to see UT win 3 games in the NIT
or lose in round one of the NCAA?
If we win out
and get a win in the SEC Tournament
plus 3 wins in the NIT
our season record would be 22 and 15 with a loss in the SEC Tourney and one in the NIT
Not a bad result with this young team and Counzo’s first year
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
rather make the NCAA
but either of those options would be a rousing success
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 23, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
At this point I think I prefer some decent success in the NIT
to a first round wipeout in the NCAA given our record and situation
The big dance isn’t much of a ball for a team that suffers a first round loss.
Maybe playing in a tournament that gives us a chance at winning is more beneficial to team confidence for next year and all the extended practice and playing time.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Gotta take the Big Dance
I think the benefits would be twofold. One, you’d have this young team get exposure to that stage and see what the pressure is all about. Two, as VCU showed last year, once you get there…everybody’s got a shot. Obviously, I’m not actually suggesting we’d make the Final 4, but I’d like our chances to be feisty against whoever we saw on a neutral floor.
The NIT is nothing to sneeze at, and I’d probably still take that given the way this season has progressed. But if you’re asking me which I’d rather be in…gotta be the tournament that matters.
I like Tennessee and Vanderbilt. There aren't many like me, and they're probably better off for it.
Well it's likely we would see a top 3 seed
in the first round of an NCAA tournament
anyone from KY through Marquette
I guess I’ve never bought into the idea that going to an NCAA sub- regional and losing in the first round is an “experience” with any particular value. Being selected as one of the top 60 odd teams in the USA doesn’t offer much encouragement as far as I can see.
However a couple of good games at home vs NIT worthy teams seems a better experience for the team and the fans. But I guess I can see both sides of the question. I’m happy with either result.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
a top 3 seed?
no way. The only time I can remember an SEC team seeing a top three seed in the first round. They were 17-16 and 4-12 in SEC play.
If we make the tournament, whether by winning out until the SEC championship or by auto-bid, we play a 4, 5, or 6 seed in the first round.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 23, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Conference leader RPIs
Big East = Syracuse – #1
Big 10 = Michigan State – #2
ACC = Duke – #3
SEC = Kentucky – #4
Big 12 = Kansas – #6
MVC = Wichita State – #11
A10 = Temple – #14
C-USA = Southern Miss – #16
MWC = New Mexico – #29
PAC 12 = Cal – #32
Big West = Long Beach State – #33
WCC = St. Mary’s – #35
Ivy = Harvard – #36
OVC = Murray State – #39
Sun Belt = MTSU – #40
Metro Atlantic = Iona – #42
Summit = Oral Roberts – #45
WAC = Nevada – #55
MAC = Akron – #58
A-Sun = Belmont – #61
Southern = Davidson – #72
Colonial = Drexel – #73
Big Sky = Weber State – #75
Patriot = Bucknell – #80
Northeast = Long Island – #83
Southland = Texas-Arlington – #91
Horizon = Valparaiso – #96
Big South = UNC-Asheville – #122
SWAC = Mississippi Valley State – #149
America East = Vermont – #157
MEAC = Savannah State – #197
If we somehow got in today, with a #102 RPI we’d be a 15 seed going solely by RPI assuming the favorite all won their conference tournaments. But if we win the SEC Tournament, the RPI Forecast has us at an RPI of 42 which would equate to an 11 seed at worst. And we’d probably get bumped up a few seeds as a bonus for winning the SEC and finishing strong. If we win out until the finals, we’d be in the mid 50s or around a 13 seed… and likely plus a couple of seeds once again for finishing strong.
A good thing to remember
Those projections don’t even make an attempt at figuring out who the automatic NIT bids will go to. There just wouldn’t be any way to know. Remember, every conference champion that does not make the NCAA Tournament (by losing their conference tournament, or I guess not winning would be more precise) automatically makes the NIT field. That means that certainly seeds 7 and 8 are vulnerable in these mock-ups, and perhaps 6, as well.
As far as the NCAA vs. NIT argument, the problem is you’re making too many assumptions. You’re assuming that we would lose in the first round of the NCAA and go deep in the NIT. However, the opposite is certainly possible in both. If you’re in the NCAA, there’s always the possibility you could get hot and make the Sweet 16, which would certainly be better than winning the NIT. There’s also the possibility that you could lose in the first round of the NIT, which would certainly be worse than losing in the first round (or even the First Four) of the NCAA. You should always prefer to be in the NCAA, just based on the possibilities alone, if nothing else. Once you’re in the NIT, you think about winning that, but no bubble team wants to be in the NIT at 6 p.m. on Sunday. Note: I do not think we have a realistic chance of making the NCAA Tournament, outside of winning the SEC Tournament, which is also not realistic. I am merely talking in general about the relative merits of the two.
Yep...
and just being in the NCAA Tournament guarantees that your team will get at least a few hours of exposure in the form of analysis and the game itself that millions will be watching. The first round games averaged a 6.6% share on TV… that’s more than 7 million TVs using the most recent Neilsen numbers. And that’s likely going include every single D1 basketball recruit that isn’t playing at the time.
If you get into the NIT, you end up playing a game on ESPN2, ESPNU or even ESPN3… and nobody pays attention except the fans of the teams participating plus a few hardcore folks.
After starting 17-0 at Bud Walton, Arkansas has dropped two straight there
including one last night to Alabama. Hard to see them ahead of us in the NIT pecking order for much longer.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Feb 24, 2012 12:25 PM EST reply actions
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