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Someone smarter than me is going to have to explain this in greater detail.

4 months ago Tennessee_logo_tiny Will Shelton 8 comments 0 recs  | 

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Kinda tough to explain when he gives no explanation or links (or even tags).

But knowing Bill, it’s there somewhere. I don’t know how he comes up with the score, but I have all kinds of red flags about being able to draw singular conclusions. He wants to relate his scores to experience (i.e. that inexperienced teams have their best games against the worst teams). But there are other factors, too. An experienced team may have their best games against worst teams, but may not have the mental makeup to play well against good teams despite being experienced. (See Vols, Lady for a cross-sport example.)

Tennessee pegs the needle because against bad teams, the latent talent level of Tennessee is sufficient to overwhelm, so the games turn out very well. Against equally-talented teams, the coaching transience causes them to falter. It happens even in years when Tennessee had a lot of experience, which is partly why I worry that Bill is too quick to seek conclusions.

My other concern: what constitutes “best games”? Against a top-5 team, a win of any kind is a great game. Against a bottom-5 team, a win of 14 points isn’t much to write home about. That’s why he really needs to provide methodology citations.

TL;DR version:

Tennessee out-talents bad teams, but hasn’t had the coaching consistency to hold up against good teams. This we already knew.

by David Hooper on Feb 6, 2012 10:08 AM EST reply actions  

The "Consistently Best Against Best" list

looks like a list of teams that would also be one one of those ridiculous most underrated teams lists that only use AP poll data, where teams like Tennessee historically or LSU now have nowhere to go but down and thus be considered overrated. I’m a big fan of Bill’s work and I’m sure that this is easily better stuff, that was just the first place my brain went.

by Will Shelton on Feb 6, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn't look at that list.

But you’re probably right. At any rate, this kind of endeavor is extremely difficult to do well. There are so many underlying assumptions you have to make and resolve. Like I mentioned, I haven’t looked to see his methodology, but I’m pretty certain that he’s going to have a devil of a time dealing with criticisms because there are just so many ways to approach this and interpret the results.

Statistics is a lot of fun, but the legwork involved in getting a usable model is usually extremely taxing. Most people don’t appreciate that, and even those that do are usually inclined to find shortcuts after a while. (I’m just as guilty as anybody else.)

by David Hooper on Feb 6, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Furthermore:

the whole “we can predict whether or not Tennessee will win a game by looking un-objectively at who’s better on paper and making that choice” thing is another way to think about it.

And yet another way: remember the whole “we haven’t seen Tennessee upset a team in years” thing? Yeah, that’s also part of it.

by Chris Pendley on Feb 6, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

For what it's worth, I went back and added a link/quote to the top of the post...

…I had kind of intended to do that all along but got sidetracked. I use the opponent-adjusted numbers to figure out which teams tend to play their best games (from an opponent-adjusted perspective) against the best teams on the schedule, and which play their best against worst. It isn’t really a look at quality so much as personality. And the goal here isn’t so much conclusions as insight.

by Bill C. on Feb 6, 2012 11:04 AM EST reply actions  

Cool.

When I get a chance, I’ll look at it.

And good luck with the study. It’s a doozy, and I am really curious to see how it goes.

by David Hooper on Feb 6, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

By the way, I'm a huge fan of the insight approach.

My recurring meme is that stats don’t tell you what happened, but where to look.

by David Hooper on Feb 6, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

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