"Student-Athlete" Interface

by Aerobab on Dec 22, 2007 6:45 AM EST Comment 15 comments

This post was originally bumped from the diaries last January 18, not long after Demetrice Morley was dismissed from the team for academic reasons. Aerobab linked to it in response to new RTT member Power T's (welcome!) post about another round of players being academically ineligible for the Outback Bowl, but I thought it deserved some more time in the spotlight.

Add mine and Ghost of Neyland's to the growing cacophony of disgruntled voices, by the way.

-- Joel

CFAJ recently posted his thoughts at the fanhouse on the dismissal of Demetrice Morley from the University of Tennessee. His entry brought out the following comment from Hilary:

"another example of vols coaches asleep. Leading teams watch over the grades of their players and make them do what it takes...Our coaches fail in so many way,,Bret Smith and now Morley. Who is next....."

I'm 180 degrees out of phase with Hilary's thoughts. IMO, the coaching staff should hold ZERO accountability for the academic short comings of their "student-athletes" (I despise that phrase, by the way.) on the following basic premises:

1) The "student-athletes" are grown adults and are to be held accountable for their own actions. Enough said, really.

2) The coaching staff is hired to coach an elective sport (not required participation). They're not hired to babysit or be the "Big Brother" tasked with academic oversight. Coach Fulmer is a $2M/ year coach who is paid to win championships; not to make sure that his players maintain a 2.0 GPA. Academic success is an assumption to winning said championships, which is an excellent segue to...

3) Academic expectations are made very clear at the onset of joining the team. The individuals are keenly aware that if they slack-off on academics then they hurt the team, not just themselves. (Ask Brett Smith about this one if you need validation.) Nobody, and I mean NOBODY wants to be "that guy" who may cost his team a victory.
-- Side note: I would think that the other players on the team would be the ones to oversee that grades are kept up. The buddy system is used in the weight room to encourage and oversee that every bit of strength and effort is given to pump out one last rep on the bench press. That same energy/motivation should be and can easily be translated into their schoolwork.

4) There is virtually an unlimited amount of "educational aids" available to underachieving "student-athletes." From group study sessions to 1 on 1 tutoring available 24/7, there is absolutely no reason to fail a single class, let alone fail out of a university centered around the athletics program.

When I attended UT as a "student-scholar," I didn't have a coach to make sure that I went to class and got C's or better in my classes. All I had was my personal desire to excel. Well, that and the knowledge that financing would be pulled by the parental units if I should fail! But like I said, success and achievement is an expectation that was made by my father at the onset of my college career. I did not need constant reminding that he and my mother would stop paying for college if I should fail.

Case in point is that DeMo brought this upon himself. He may blame Coach Fulmer, he may blame the assistant coaches, he may blame his professors, or hell...he may even blame me! But the fact remains that he, and only he is responsible for himself. I have not come across any derogatory statements from DeMo since the news broke, so I can only hope that he has made such a realization.

What are your thoughts? Should coaches be held accountable for the academic successes/failures of their athletes?
---------------------------------
Self-admission note of worth: over the course of writing this entry, I came across a few holes in my argument. Bonus points to you if you can call me on them!

Poll

Should coaches be responsible for the academic success/failure of their athletes?

Yes, 100% (Without players, coaches can not do their jobs.)

13 votes

No, 100% (Success in school work is a prereq for the privilege to play NCAA sanctioned sports.)

21 votes

Yes/No, but only 50% (Academics is a 2-way street for "student-athletes.)

18 votes

I don't know.

0 votes

I don't care.

1 votes

Other (Please state your case as a comment)

2 votes

55 votes | Poll has closed

FanPosts are most often submitted by users. The views and opinions expressed in FanPosts do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions held by the editorial staff of Rocky Top Talk or SB Nation.

0 recs | Comment 15 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Success as a series of failures?

Should coaches be held accountable for the academic successes/failures of their athletes? Yes and no. Sort of like they're both responsible and not responsible for on-the-field performance or off-the-field shenanigans.

The players are sort of in between adolescence and full-blown adulthood. That is, they are still in the process of learning to be adults (aren't we all?!) Much like a parent holds the bike up while the child pedals, then lets go, then picks the kid up and does it all over again, coaching -- whether its teaching them to be good football players, good students, or responsible adults -- is really a series of failures and do-overs. They can't play for them, and they can't go to class for them. They can motivate them and teach them good habits and hold them accountable and encourage them and on and on and on, and if they fail to do this, it is indeed the coach's failure.

But when the coach has motivated, cajoled, and otherwise done all he can as a coach, the time comes when the toe meets leather, and at that point, it's up to the athlete (or the student or citizen) to do what he's been coached to do.

When there's a failure on the field, in the classroom, or at Goodfellas Pizza, it's hard to determine where the fault lies. Were they improperly or inadequately coached or did they fail to do what they'd been instructed to do?

It's pure speculation, of course, but you can get some gauge by looking at the program as a whole. Are more kids failing or succeeding?

I think that we give the athletes plenty of academic and moral/ethical support, training, and role-modeling. It seems to me that we (and every other university) have a bunch of kids being kids. Demand that they succeed. But expect them to fail along the way.

Go Vols!

by Joel on Jan 16, 2007 9:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Good points

Nice counter-points.

by Aerobab on Jan 17, 2007 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Morley

The greater University bears the responsibility, and its reputation is tarnished no matter who dropped the ball.

The AD, Coaches, and Morley's parents ought to sit down and agree on a plan to get this kid where he needs to be academically. For instance, a year at a JC could enable him to learn and demonstrate responsibility and to gain confidence. This confidence is what he lacks, not enough intelligence to maintan and C+ average.

Then, if he's performed well, let him back in to UT in Jan 08 and, if he keeps his grades up, let him go to Spring practice. There's no reason he should quit football for the rest of his life just because of a hiccup.

UT can make itself proud with some effort here.

by Old Alum on Jan 18, 2007 12:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

D. Morley's grades

I worked at the writing center at UT as a teaching assistant, and I knew the policies for the Thornton Center, which was like the writing center, but it offered tutoring for all classes. Student athletes were required to attend, and the requirements melted away as they proved success in the classroom. There is a large infrastrucutre to help student athletes in the classroom at UT, so the thought that any of the football coaches failed to check up on the players somewhat mistakes how a bohemoth like UT works with how a regular high school football/classroom works.

Dr. Linda Bensel-Meyers was one of my favorite professors, who you may remember was an academic gadfly for UT's football team, and left for another university. If she hadn't stood up for academics a few years ago, D. Morley probably would have just got the necessary grade change he needed. I want to point out that professors like Dr. LB-M help the college because for every D. Morley who could benefit from getting passed due to his football talent only, there are dozens of student/athletes who will not turn pro and need their degrees. That is why Dr. LB-M recieved a sportsmanship award from the NAACP, is a recognized figure, etc. Has anyone heard when her book will come out? I heard that one of the proposed titles was something like: "Guarding the plantation: something, something, something"

by crazyvolfan on Jan 18, 2007 11:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hole in the argument...

Is one of the self-admitted holes in your argument that Fulmer is paid $2M/year to win games, not watch over academics; yet a player who is academically ineligible can cost the team games by not being on the field helping the team win?

by CornFromAJar on Jan 18, 2007 9:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

WINNER!

DING-DING-DING-DING!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

When I drafted that opinion, I associated the word "responsibility" with "front line duties". When I was reading back through for consistency in my arguement, I realized that there are other levels of responsibility, such as academic oversight, that will typically be handed off to other coaches/staff members as their "front line duty". So while academic oversight may not be a primary responsiblity of the head coach, (Naval metaphor comming up) he is the Captian of the ship and ultimately responsible for the successes and failures of the team.

by Aerobab on Jan 19, 2007 8:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bonus ponts

CFAJ, I hereby award you 100,000,000,000,000 Bonus Points to redeem at your leisure! Congrats!

by Aerobab on Jan 19, 2007 8:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm

This is a weird argument.

Just some personal observations, not politically correct but just opinions:

highly recruited kids do not come to Knoxville to earn a degree. They come to build their rep for the NFL. There are exceptions that are smart enough and can manage time enough to do so, but I would say that a good 70% of highly touted recruits could care less. It's Tennessee a NFL bredding ground.
Some teachers understand that and reward effort, some want to make a name for themselves.
If a kid (no matter to #1) doesn't give any effort at all (like not going to class) needs to be failed. Most of the grade is just showing up.

Just go to class, turn in your work, even if it's in crayon. YOU WILL PASS!!!!

by Marty McMustache on Jan 19, 2007 3:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

point #3

Absolutely. Grade inflation is so rampant that anyone who shows up, does work in class, and works with the Thornton Center (for athletes) or other tutoring places (for non-athletes) will certainly pass. I don't think it is bad--wouldn't most people agree that the majority of jobs--and the majority of each individual job--depends more on the person's punctuality, attitude, etc. For example, a conscientious moron could have a wide range of jobs, maybe not president of the U.S. Oops, I hate to end with a hole in my argument!

by crazyvolfan on Jan 19, 2007 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

True

Very true #1 point, but the reality is that UT is yet to offer a degree in "NFL Preparation". I'm all for it (amongst ALL universities) and have devised a fantastic curriculum (IMO) to cover "on the field" skills and "off the field" skills (e.g., Agents 101, finance mgt., contract mgt., handling the media, etc.). **I need to post another entry detailing my curriculum. That would be a fun topic!**

Regardless, such a system is not in place so all that the "NFL-wannabes" can do is follow the rules that are out there. Heck, it's only 6 semesters of classes!

by Aerobab on Jan 19, 2007 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not to muddy the waters

But the responsibility of the high schools that "prepare" the "student-athlete" keeps nagging at me. I know that education at public schools is a real sore spot for most people (including me with 2 kids in it now), but I just wonder how difficult it is to make up 4 years of "no child left behind" shenanigans at the University level. We all can recognize that 4 years experience at any skill makes a big difference in your competency, but how do we account for that at the university?
I'm doing something I absolutely hate, which is bringing up a problem without a potential solution, but I'm interested in what others think.
And yes, I know I'm limiting it to 4 years in high school, when we all know it reaches much further back, maybe to all 12 years. And I'm not going further back than that, because that can open up another can of worms!

by llpvol on Jan 19, 2007 8:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

nclb and preparation

NCLB is certainly broken, but the same problem in high-schools that caused the Congress to take such a rigid approach is the same one that the athletes who will not do work--students refuse to do anything that requires reading, thinking, or math. I've taught high-school for three years, and I was shocked at how lazy students are--certainly it wasn't like this ten years ago when I was in high school. I have had students tell me they don't read because it hurts their head. I can't issue textbooks because they laugh and say they aren't taking anything home. With a class set of textbooks, I spend a long time getting students to get them, and then only about half of them even open them. People say it is because schools are out of touch, but I gave assignments on reading and replying to blogs, and the students came in the next day saying, "I hope we don't have to go back to the computer lab, I hate that place." Teachers have a responsibility to teach, but students--across the country, with the exception only of the wealthy areas, have no motivation whatsoever. O.K., I'm replying to blogs while they write their final exams, you caught me.

by crazyvolfan on Jan 19, 2007 9:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I think you're right on...my children do need special help and we're spending 3-4 hours at home with them every night it seems to give them that help. Unfortunately, the teachers have the same experience that you are having, ie, it's hard to worry about the ones who want to learn but just need help when you have the disruptive ones you just have to "babysit". We've had good luck so far with our teachers once they find out we're working with them and reinforcing their direction/instruction...but it takes a few meetings before they realize we're really serious. Not blaming them, just realizing that the everyday life of a teacher kinda jades you. (you got me, that was a sentence fragment!)
But your point on the work ethic "attitude" (or lack thereof) is dead on...and unfortunately, that speaks to my last sentence above...way beyond schools.
BTW, I hope it was clear, I'm not BLAMING the schools/teachers before University level, I just think (and I think I hear you agree), that this is a fundamental problem that goes way deeper than just student athletes.
And again, I am doing what I hate, bringing up a problem with no real idea how to solve :(

by llpvol on Jan 19, 2007 9:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The first sign

of the Curse of Trooper Taylor.

Go Vols!

by gramsey712 on Dec 22, 2007 10:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

A simple thought

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? These athletes are getting the kind of preferential academic treatment that no ordinary student would ever get at any university. I've worked as an "academic planner" at both the University of Tennessee and the Ohio State University, and the truth is, these players have zero excuses for failing to meet the academic requirements in order to be eligible. It is always the "easy" solution to point the finger at someone else, but the truth is that these players are at fault themselves. These guys have "cake" class schedules, they get all of the "tutoring" help that they need/want, and in many cases, if they just showed up for class and participated in the work, they would at least get a C (in the types of classes most of these guys take).

One other thing to remember - Just because someone is a "master motivator" doesn't automatically mean that everyone is going to suddenly be motivated to work. Even the best motivators in the world will admit that they can provide you with the fuel, but you have you must decide what to do with that fuel. We are our own motivators.

These players have no one to blame but themselves. After hearing about the FSU cheating scandal from a good friend in the FSU advising department, this university would be wise to take the high road, and make it clear that UT will not deal with these kinds of athletes - those who cannot meet these simple academic requirements.

by tommotornado on Dec 23, 2007 1:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs